Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

Flincher · 22-05-2012 02:22PM

Lelantos wrote: »

I wonder if Penney will perhaps look to poach some young Leinster players over the next 12 months?

I hope not to be honest.

Make the best of what we have. If that gets us to an Amlin quarter or a HEC final, so be it.

I always want a Munster team backboned by Munster players. As it is, we're close enough to losing that.

Amazotheamazing · 22-05-2012 02:30PM

Lelantos wrote: »

I wonder if Penney will perhaps look to poach some young Leinster players over the next 12 months?

I doubt it, Butler and co. have outplayed Ruddock and Ryan at A level, we need to find a way to get them into shape for the pro12.

sensitive1960 · 22-05-2012 02:51PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Munster:
Hurley; Howlett, Mafi, Tipoki, Dowling; O'Gara, O'Leary;
Horan, Flannery, Hayes, O'Callaghan, O'Connell (capt), Quinlan, Wallace, Leamy.

Replacements: Sheahan, Buckley, M O'Driscoll, Ryan, Stringer, Warwick, Earls.

9 out of 22 left: 6 starters and 3 replacements.

Retired: Flannery, Hayes, Quinlan, Wallace, Leamy, Dowling, Tipoki, Sheahan, MOD

Left: O'Leary, Mafi, Buckley, Warwick

What I don't understand is that we have lost Buckley,Quinlan,Fla,Leamy,Hayes,MOD,Wally,TOL and Dowling from irish contracts in last year or so and Mafi,Warwick and Chambers/Tokula as NIQ's. We have replaced these with Botha,Dougal,Downey and Lualua-and maybe Zebo and POM but there must be a huge saving on wages.Where is the money being spent?

Amazotheamazing · 22-05-2012 02:57PM

sensitive1960 wrote: »

What I don't understand is that we have lost Buckley,Quinlan,Fla,Leamy,Hayes,MOD,Wally,TOL and Dowling from irish contracts in last year or so and Mafi,Warwick and Chambers/Tokula as NIQ's. We have replaced these with Dougal,Downey and Lualua-and maybe Zebo and POM but there must be a huge saving on wages.Where is the money being spent?

Munster have a massive squad.

Lelantos · 22-05-2012 03:26PM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Lelantos wrote: »

I wonder if Penney will perhaps look to poach some young Leinster players over the next 12 months?

I doubt it, Butler and co. have outplayed Ruddock and Ryan at A level, we need to find a way to get them into shape for the pro12.

I'm thinking Madigan to be truthful

Amazotheamazing · 22-05-2012 03:42PM

Lelantos wrote: »

I'm thinking Madigan to be truthful

Madigan or Sexton will have to leave eventually but right now he's better off in Leinster I think. Course, his family is from Cork originally so we'll be keeping lines of communication open.

Quint2010 · 22-05-2012 03:44PM

It cant be a coincidence that a rash of Munster players are suddenly retiring because of injury. Bad luck on Leamy but he hadn't been a top player since 2009 and really hadn't developed his game hugely since then. I fear for Munster.

Lelantos · 22-05-2012 04:13PM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Lelantos wrote: »

I'm thinking Madigan to be truthful

Madigan or Sexton will have to leave eventually but right now he's better off in Leinster I think. Course, his family is from Cork originally so we'll be keeping lines of communication open.

He strikes me as being a hungry player, and being sat behind Sexton, getting an odd start here & there in the HC won't do much for his international ambitions. You need to be number1 for your club to be considered for ireland duty & playing regularly at the highest level. It's why Rog is still being considered for Ireland squads. If Madigan moves, gets to play in big games, he gets a chance at the Ireland shirt imo

Quint2010 · 22-05-2012 04:19PM

Lelantos wrote: »

He strikes me as being a hungry player, and being sat behind Sexton, getting an odd start here & there in the HC won't do much for his international ambitions. You need to be number1 for your club to be considered for ireland duty & playing regularly at the highest level. It's why Rog is still being considered for Ireland squads. If Madigan moves, gets to play in big games, he gets a chance at the Ireland shirt imo

Madigan has just signed a new two year contract with Leinster. So don't bank on him going anywhere soon

Fishooks12 · 22-05-2012 04:36PM

Madigan ain't going anywhere

Interesting to see what happens with himself and Sexton during the next two years

If he can continue his upward curve there will be some battle for the starting 10 shirt

Lelantos · 22-05-2012 04:41PM

Quint2010 wrote: »

Lelantos wrote: »

He strikes me as being a hungry player, and being sat behind Sexton, getting an odd start here & there in the HC won't do much for his international ambitions. You need to be number1 for your club to be considered for ireland duty & playing regularly at the highest level. It's why Rog is still being considered for Ireland squads. If Madigan moves, gets to play in big games, he gets a chance at the Ireland shirt imo

Madigan has just signed a new two year contract with Leinster. So don't bank on him going anywhere soon

Not next season I agree. But, if he doesn't get HC games, or Irish squad recognitn, who knows what will happen the season after. Sexton is only 26 I think, Madigan could be in his shadow for another 7 years, can't see that happening.

clsmooth · 22-05-2012 04:53PM

Lelantos wrote: »

Not next season I agree. But, if he doesn't get HC games, or Irish squad recognitn, who knows what will happen the season after. Sexton is only 26 I think, Madigan could be in his shadow for another 7 years, can't see that happening.

Why would he want to go to Munster? He'd be better off at Ulster

Monty Burnz · 22-05-2012 04:56PM

clsmooth wrote: »

Why would he want to go to Munster? He'd be better off at Ulster

Ulster have Paddy Jackson, who - according to Ulster fans - is the best thing since Jackie Kyle.

danthefan · 22-05-2012 04:58PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Ulster have Paddy Jackson, who - according to Ulster fans - is the best thing since Jackie Kyle.

Unless he goes to Connacht, which is akin to career suicide, there's no province with a clear path where he'd be first choice. ROG is playing above international level and wants to keep going til he's 38. As you've said above Jackson is at Ulster. He's in as good an environment as he could possibly be. I'd imagine as he gets better he'll see more and more gametime from the bench in the HEC.

Benny Cake · 22-05-2012 05:02PM

Quint2010 wrote: »

It cant be a coincidence that a rash of Munster players are suddenly retiring because of injury.

In fairness, it is more than likely a coincidence... This conspiracy theory doing the rounds that it is in some way related to the issues surrounding the strength and conditioning coach is a stretch to say the least...

Tox56 · 22-05-2012 05:04PM

Benny Cake wrote: »

In fairness, it is more than likely a coincidence... This conspiracy theory doing the rounds that it is in some way related to the issues surrounding the strength and conditioning coach is a stretch to say the least...

Is it really a coincidence though? The sheer number of injuries have been staggering, it would have to be one amazing coincidence. It might just be unlucky, but there must be some element of bad conditioning.

Sindri · 22-05-2012 05:07PM

Lelantos wrote: »

He strikes me as being a hungry player, and being sat behind Sexton, getting an odd start here & there in the HC won't do much for his international ambitions. You need to be number1 for your club to be considered for ireland duty & playing regularly at the highest level. It's why Rog is still being considered for Ireland squads. If Madigan moves, gets to play in big games, he gets a chance at the Ireland shirt imo

If Madigan were to move I'd doubt it would be to Munster seeing as Munster recently acquired Keatley. I'd say if he were to move it would be abroad.

Benny Cake · 22-05-2012 05:08PM

Tox56 wrote: »

Is it really a coincidence? The sheer number of injuries have been staggering, it would have to be one amazing coincidence. It might just be unlucky, but there must be some element of bad conditioning.

Can't say I agree. Its a massive leap to say poor conditioning has lead to the spate of retirements in Munster....

Occam's Razor... The simplest explanation is often the most likely...

.ak · 22-05-2012 05:09PM

Lelantos wrote: »

He strikes me as being a hungry player, and being sat behind Sexton, getting an odd start here & there in the HC won't do much for his international ambitions. You need to be number1 for your club to be considered for ireland duty & playing regularly at the highest level. It's why Rog is still being considered for Ireland squads. If Madigan moves, gets to play in big games, he gets a chance at the Ireland shirt imo

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Madigan played more games than Sexton has this season for Leinster?

Also, why should the Irish team pick the 'number 1' outhalf for a club? Surely they would recognise talent and pick an outhalf that fits their gameplan, regardless of starts? Plenty of talented OH's get picked for their national side due to them fitting in with their gameplan or just their talent. Farrell in England is a good example.

The only thing holding Madigan and Keatley back from Irish caps is Declan Kidney and the IRFU who can't fathom taking risks in order to fix the problems that is killing Irish rugby.

Podge_irl · 22-05-2012 05:31PM

.ak wrote: »

Also, why should the Irish team pick the 'number 1' outhalf for a club? Surely they would recognise talent and pick an outhalf that fits their gameplan, regardless of starts?

In fairness, Madigan could not possibly be further from the type of outhalf Kidney wants for the gameplan he's using.

I'm not so sure he'd suit Munster either.

Fireball07 · 22-05-2012 05:38PM

Podge_irl wrote: »

In fairness, Madigan could not possibly be further from the type of outhalf Kidney wants for the gameplan he's using.

I'm not so sure he'd suit Munster either.

Well I think Munster need to change their game. Their pack isn't good enough to play their traditional style anymore. On the other hand, they have exciting backs. Zebo, Earls, Laulala, Jones, Howlett, LOD, Hanrahan- they are players who excel when they're able to run with the ball. Imagine Madigan in there with them?

That said, I don't think Madigan will come to Munster now. But I think there will come a point in a year or two where he will either have to dislodge Sexton or move to really help his Ireland prospects. Hopefully Keatley will come good for Munster, as I could see Madigan going to France if he does make a move.

Podge_irl · 22-05-2012 05:45PM

Munster's backs are getting plenty of ball but the team as a whole isn't making any space for them. I don't think Madigan would solve that problem.

Monty Burnz · 22-05-2012 05:48PM

Podge_irl wrote: »

Munster's backs are getting plenty of ball but the team as a whole isn't making any space for them. I don't think Madigan would solve that problem.

You don't think he offers the same running threat that ROG does?

Fishooks12 · 22-05-2012 05:59PM

Podge_irl wrote: »

Munster's backs are getting plenty of ball but the team as a whole isn't making any space for them. I don't think Madigan would solve that problem.

He'd definitely provide a better quality of attacking ball than ROG

CIARAN_BOYLE · 22-05-2012 06:01PM

sensitive1960 wrote: »

What I don't understand is that we have lost Buckley,Quinlan,Fla,Leamy,Hayes,MOD,Wally,TOL and Dowling from irish contracts in last year or so and Mafi,Warwick and Chambers/Tokula as NIQ's. We have replaced these with Botha,Dougal,Downey and Lualua-and maybe Zebo and POM but there must be a huge saving on wages.Where is the money being spent?

The players on bold were on central contracts for which the money comes afaik from the central pot of the irfu rather than from the provinces budget.

Botha is taking up a big wedge ~€300K a year. There is more young player than Zebo and POM who have come on to Munster contracts in the last twelve months, either stepping up from development to full or from academy to full/development are Butler, Foley, Nagle, Ryan, Scanlon, Smith, Kilkoyne

Lelantos · 22-05-2012 06:09PM

.ak wrote: »

Lelantos wrote: »

He strikes me as being a hungry player, and being sat behind Sexton, getting an odd start here & there in the HC won't do much for his international ambitions. You need to be number1 for your club to be considered for ireland duty & playing regularly at the highest level. It's why Rog is still being considered for Ireland squads. If Madigan moves, gets to play in big games, he gets a chance at the Ireland shirt imo

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Madigan played more games than Sexton has this season for Leinster?

Also, why should the Irish team pick the 'number 1' outhalf for a club? Surely they would recognise talent and pick an outhalf that fits their gameplan, regardless of starts? Plenty of talented OH's get picked for their national side due to them fitting in with their gameplan or just their talent. Farrell in England is a good example.

The only thing holding Madigan and Keatley back from Irish caps is Declan Kidney and the IRFU who can't fathom taking risks in order to fix the problems that is killing Irish rugby.

Maybe he has, I would guess all while Sexton was on Ireland duty, or being rested because of the amount of games he's allowed play due to his central contract. I think he started 1 HC game? I don't think playing Treviso, Glasgow etc in the Pro12 compares to the big HC games & internationals. If he doesn't play, and he is ambitious, he will probably move. Maybe not to Munster, maybe to France as others suggested

Podge_irl · 22-05-2012 06:15PM

Fishooks12 wrote: »

He'd definitely provide a better quality of attacking ball than ROG

Definitely. He would improve things, but Munster's problems start with much lower numbers then 10 on the pitch and have their root in some pretty appalling tactics off the pitch. I think Keatley can do just fine with Penney coaching and if Munster don't have similar injury problems next year. I think it would take quite some time to adjust to a player like Madigan from ROG though, they're polar opposites.

Fishooks12 · 22-05-2012 06:18PM

Podge_irl wrote: »

Definitely. He would improve things, but Munster's problems start with much lower numbers then 10 on the pitch and have their root in some pretty appalling tactics off the pitch. I think Keatley can do just fine with Penney coaching and if Munster don't have similar injury problems next year. I think it would take quite some time to adjust to a player like Madigan from ROG though, they're polar opposites.

Same with ROG and Keatley in a way too I think

I had kind of written Keatley off but as the season wore on it kind of became apparent that his loss of form wasn't entirely his fault

_ricochet_ · 22-05-2012 06:29PM

Leamy expecting a hip replacement in the next 10 years ago, within a year or two if he tried to come back now.

ongarite · 22-05-2012 06:38PM

Jesus a hip replacement at 40. That's terrible news.

What did he do to wreck the hip joint that badly?

Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

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