Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

Fishooks12 · 21-05-2012 06:53PM

Terrible news about Denis if true

He's an out and out gent and really down to earth

Still hugely active in Cashel Rugby. Would often take us for a training session when he was in the prime of his career back in the days of u19's

Wish him all the best

GerM · 21-05-2012 06:56PM

Podge_irl wrote: »

Regardless of whether it is a year too late, its almost certainly a few months too late. Who could they sign at this time of the year? Anyone planning to come north would surely have it planned before now?

You'd be surprised. There are always players don't want to negotiate or enter into talks on their future until the season is done. There will be a number of players that could be approached still. The top level international players will be locked down probably at this point but quite often they don't turn out to be the best signings anyway. I'm sure Munster have been looking into this for a while already anyway when it became apparent that Wallace was done.

CiaranMT · 21-05-2012 07:20PM

We're not going to compete at any meaningful level next season unless a proper backrow 6/8 is found. At the minute, a BR of Ronan, POM and Coughlan won't hack it. It's good but not anywhere near what Leinster have, or even what Ulster have. It's clunky and unbalanced, and would be even more so if Dryan was put to 6 with POM at 7.

Wishlist:

Joe van Niekerk

Kieran Read

Juan Smit

Willem Alberts

If only....

Fishooks12 · 21-05-2012 07:25PM

I think Butler will really put his hand up next year but he needs to be supplemented with an NIQ 6/8

GerM · 21-05-2012 09:07PM

CiaranMT wrote: »

Wishlist:

Joe van Niekerk

Kieran Read

Juan Smit

Willem Alberts

If only....

I reckon Munster will have to think outsite the box a little more on this one and pick up someone who will be happy to relocate and give their best years to Munster. Very few top players will come north and be successful for just a season or two before departing. JVN is the only one there who would be in that bracket and he is already committed to Toulon for another 2 years. The others are at crucial points in their international career or are destroyed through injury.

durkadurka · 21-05-2012 09:22PM

Examiner now reporting that leamys race is run.

No longer rumour now.

PhatPiggins · 21-05-2012 09:49PM

GerM wrote: »

Justin Downey, the flanker playing Super Rugby for the Cheetahs this season, any poster have a clue if he has Irish heritage? Seems a solid player and, at 25, is unlikely to get a shot at the Boks. Could be a handy signing if he does.

Would expect Munster to make a big signing in the back row but I wonder is it a year too late. Players would have been looking to move on the back of finishing the WC or not making the WC squad. I wonder how many top quality back row players are going to be floating about this summer. With Kaino gone, the likes of Thompson and Vito won't want to leave NZ. Matt Todd has only broken through in the past year so can't see him wanting to leave NZ. Few possible players floating around SA who seem to produce quality flankers for fun. Josh Strauss has looked good this season. Duane Vermeulen is someone that would add serious power to the back row too and would be project player status too I think.

I think you re on the right track there. You don t need to get a current international, even an uncapped guy could work out. Look at the impact guys like wannenberg, Williams, Steve mafi and Thomas waldrom have made. There are dozens of quality back rows in saffer who ll never get capped.

yimrsg · 21-05-2012 10:00PM

CiaranMT wrote: »

We're not going to compete at any meaningful level next season unless a proper backrow 6/8 is found. At the minute, a BR of Ronan, POM and Coughlan won't hack it. It's good but not anywhere near what Leinster have, or even what Ulster have. It's clunky and unbalanced, and would be even more so if Dryan was put to 6 with POM at 7.

Wishlist:

Joe van Niekerk

Kieran Read

Juan Smit

Willem Alberts

If only....

Juan Smith is crocked at the mo, he's on indefinite leave from the Cheetahs. There has to be a NZ back rower maybe in or around the level of Victor Vito that Penney knows of and could be tempted into being a project player, Schmidt and Gibbs brought White on board so it's not unlikely that another guy could see his future in Munster's backrow.

touts · 22-05-2012 06:19AM

The backrow is starting to look really really weak for next year. Only POM is sticking his hand up as a backrow of the standard we came to expect from the likes of Foley, Wallace & Leamy. Most of the others are still trading off potential as they head into their late 20s and 30s (Coughlan 32, O'Donnell 25, Ronan 30, Holland 27). Ryan has also stepped up this year but he now seems to be a starting second row and we need him there with DOC in decline and POC increasingly injury prone.

Is there really some world class backrow out there waiting to be discovered? Given the professional coaching and scouting in Rugby these days I doubt it. Most of the big name signings have been made already for next season so we will be paying through the nose to pry someone from their current team. If that player also has to have the potential to be Irish qualified then we are looking at a very very small pool of players. Even if we find someone I fear the money may not be there to recruit them as both Leinster and Ulster have a bigger claim on any available IRFU cash given their performances this year and Connacht also need to be propped up to help them in the HEC. I fear we will have to make do with what we have next year and cross our fingures that some of the really young lads in the Academy (Butler etc) will solve the problem in a couple of years.

22-05-2012 07:58AM

Lualala been called up to play for the BaaBaas too.

bamboozle · 22-05-2012 08:11AM

dreadful news for Leamy personally, he hasnt had a decent run of games since Perpignan away back in '09.

Munster management must have something up their sleeve, if they've been too blinkered not to prepare for the retirements of a seriously aging pack i'd be shocked. I'm sure Penny has an idea of a SH 6/8 ball carrying brute to fit the bill.

durkadurka · 22-05-2012 08:12AM

So its La La for the Baa Baas.

Even my three year old thinks its a good idea.

Amazotheamazing · 22-05-2012 09:33AM

touts wrote: »

The backrow is starting to look really really weak for next year. Only POM is sticking his hand up as a backrow of the standard we came to expect from the likes of Foley, Wallace & Leamy. Most of the others are still trading off potential as they head into their late 20s and 30s (Coughlan 32, O'Donnell 25, Ronan 30, Holland 27). Ryan has also stepped up this year but he now seems to be a starting second row and we need him there with DOC in decline and POC increasingly injury prone.

Is there really some world class backrow out there waiting to be discovered? Given the professional coaching and scouting in Rugby these days I doubt it. Most of the big name signings have been made already for next season so we will be paying through the nose to pry someone from their current team. If that player also has to have the potential to be Irish qualified then we are looking at a very very small pool of players. Even if we find someone I fear the money may not be there to recruit them as both Leinster and Ulster have a bigger claim on any available IRFU cash given their performances this year and Connacht also need to be propped up to help them in the HEC. I fear we will have to make do with what we have next year and cross our fingures that some of the really young lads in the Academy (Butler etc) will solve the problem in a couple of years.

Depends what we are looking for, we're probably not going to get an International player but if we got a decent pro like Strauss in we'd take it I think.

leakyboots · 22-05-2012 09:53AM

Leamy has retired

Amazotheamazing · 22-05-2012 09:55AM

good grief, how many more retirees can one team have in a season or so.

Hayes, Flannery, Wallace, Quinlan, Leamy, Dowling, Murphy.

Best of luck to him in whatever he does next.

ambid · 22-05-2012 10:28AM

durkadurka wrote: »

So its La La for the Baa Baas.

Even my three year old thinks its a good idea.

Those tellytubbies would make pretty good tight forwards alright.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 22-05-2012 11:12AM

Leamy retirement confirmed by munster rugby
http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/10507.php

Cpt_Blackbeard · 22-05-2012 12:17PM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

good grief, how many more retirees can one team have in a season or so.

Hayes, Flannery, Wallace, Quinlan, Leamy, Dowling, Murphy.

Best of luck to him in whatever he does next.

In Wallace, Flannery and Leamy alone, we've lost the core of a fantastic pack who had at least 2 years each at the top of their game. Leamy's retirement doesn't come as a surprise but, it doesn't make it any easier to stomach. Even with only the one training session a week, he was playing some good rugby this year. Another great talent robbed before his time.

thomond2006 · 22-05-2012 12:21PM

Munster:
Hurley; Howlett, Mafi, Tipoki, Dowling; O'Gara, O'Leary;
Horan, Flannery, Hayes, O'Callaghan, O'Connell (capt), Quinlan, Wallace, Leamy.

Replacements: Sheahan, Buckley, M O'Driscoll, Ryan, Stringer, Warwick, Earls.

9 out of 22 left: 6 starters and 3 replacements.

Retired: Flannery, Hayes, Quinlan, Wallace, Leamy, Dowling, Tipoki, Sheahan, MOD

Left: O'Leary, Mafi, Buckley, Warwick

Monty Burnz · 22-05-2012 12:30PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Munster:
Hurley; Howlett, Mafi, Tipoki, Dowling; O'Gara, O'Leary;
Horan, Flannery, Hayes, O'Callaghan, O'Connell (capt), Quinlan, Wallace, Leamy.

Replacements: Sheahan, Buckley, M O'Driscoll, Ryan, Stringer, Warwick, Earls.

9 out of 22 left: 6 starters and 3 replacements.

Retired: Flannery, Hayes, Quinlan, Wallace, Leamy, Dowling, Tipoki, Sheahan, MOD

Left: O'Leary, Mafi, Buckley, Warwick

And Horan has declined to such an extent that I'd consider him a liability at this stage.

thomond2006 · 22-05-2012 12:32PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

And Horan has declined to such an extent that I'd consider him a liability at this stage.

I don't mind him in the squad if he's 3rd choice loosehead. After Kilcoyne we don't have much coming through at loosehead (open to correction) so some experienced cover is handy.

totallegend · 22-05-2012 12:43PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Munster:
Hurley; Howlett, Mafi, Tipoki, Dowling; O'Gara, O'Leary;
Horan, Flannery, Hayes, O'Callaghan, O'Connell (capt), Quinlan, Wallace, Leamy.

Replacements: Sheahan, Buckley, M O'Driscoll, Ryan, Stringer, Warwick, Earls.

9 out of 22 left: 6 starters and 3 replacements.

Retired: Flannery, Hayes, Quinlan, Wallace, Leamy, Dowling, Tipoki, Sheahan, MOD

Left: O'Leary, Mafi, Buckley, Warwick

Mad really.

Or is it?

The Leinster team which played Leicester in 2008 (their last HC game that year);
Dempsey, Fitzgerald, O'Driscoll, D'Arcy, Kearney, Contepomi, Easterby, Wright, Jackman, Knoop, Cullen, O'Kelly, Keogh, Jennings, Heaslip
Reps: le Roux, Healy, Jowitt, Gleeson, Keane, Sexton, Brown

Or the Ulster team which played Gloucester in their last game:
Bartholomeusz, Bowe, Trimble, Steinmetz, McCrea, Wallace, Boss, Young, R Best, Fitzpatrick, Harrison, Caldwell, McCullough, N Best, Webb
Reps: Brady, Court, del Fava, McMillan, Campbell, O'Connor, Mallon

So I don't know if the turnover at Munster is really that high; it's more just the quality of that 2008 team meant it was too tempting for Kidney and then McGahan to just stick with the same guys year after year.

Where there is a marked difference is how many of those Munster guys have left/retired this year, compared to Leinster (none) and Ulster (one, Brady).

So, the optimistic view is that Munster will be back to competing for the HC once they go through a bit more of the transition that Ulster and Leinster have done over the last four years. They have the player base and the resources to do it, it's just a matter of managing it properly.

touts · 22-05-2012 12:45PM

Even just from the squad at the start of this year we have lost:

Jerry Flannery - Hooker (Injury)
Denis Fogarty - Hooker (off to France)
John Hayes - Hooker (Started the season but retired mid way)
Peter Borlase - Prop (off to ?)
Mick O'Driscoll - 2nd Row (Retired)
David Wallace - Backrow (Injury)
Denis Leamy - Backrow (Injury)
Tomás O'Leary - Scrum Half (off to England)
Declan Cusack - Outhalf (off to ?)
Lifeimi Mafi - Inside Centre (off to France)
Will Chambers/Save Tokula - Outside Centre (lets count them as one as Toluka replaced Chambers mid season)

In replacement we have
Sean Dougall - Backrow (from Rotherham)
James Downey - Inside Centre (from Northampton)
Casey Laulala - Outside Centre (from Cardiff)
Plus promotions from the Academy and underage setup

OK Flannery and Leamy didn't play at all but if it stays like that its a bloody savage culling of the squad. Sure young local lads will now get more chance but when the Internationals are away on Ireland duty the team (and squad around them) will be seriously lacking experience.

We seem to be putting all our eggs in an academy basket that to be honest up to now has not performing anywhere well enough to meet this sort of turnover. Also next season it is essential that all our remaining experienced players stay fit and as we've seen in recent months the one thing Munster can't do is keep players fit. Serious questions need to be asked about that.

However it is not all bleak. I actually think Penny was selected precisely for his underage experience. It's horses for courses and right now we need someone who can develop young talent and by all accounts he is one of the best at that. It will also be interesting to see if the injury rate falls following the changeover in coaching staff.

The next two years will be ****ty beyond belief (think Wasps in the premiership sort of ****ty). But Penny may be the right person to bring us through this two years in the wilderness.

Dempsey · 22-05-2012 12:59PM

Just read that Denis Leamy has retired from Rugby because of a hip injury.

profitius · 22-05-2012 01:03PM

touts wrote: »

The next two years will be ****ty beyond belief (think Wasps in the premiership sort of ****ty). But Penny may be the right person to bring us through this two years in the wilderness.

Munster will be better next season. Although the younger players will be lacking experience, the new coach will make a big difference. The talent is there still. You also have the other academy lads who are coming through.

Penney has a good record working with young players and he is technically a very good coach too it seems. Like Schmidt, he looks like the sort of coach that gets teams to do the simple things very well. He'll also look at the squad and play a game to suit the strengths of the players.

I'm alot more optimistic about next season than I've been for a while. The next 2 or 3 seasons will see Munster rise again.

Monty Burnz · 22-05-2012 01:11PM

profitius wrote: »

Munster will be better next season. Although the younger players will be lacking experience, the new coach will make a big difference. The talent is there still. You also have the other academy lads who are coming through.

We've been hearing this since Kidney left.

Amazotheamazing · 22-05-2012 01:22PM

touts wrote: »

The next two years will be ****ty beyond belief (think Wasps in the premiership sort of ****ty). But Penny may be the right person to bring us through this two years in the wilderness.

I actually really disagree, provided we can keep our first 15 fit.

for me
wian, Sherry, Botha, POC, Ryan, is a decent tight 5 and Zebo, Downey, Earls, Howlett, Jones is a decent back 5.

big questions over backrow and half-backs, but not such big questions that would see us second last in the Pro12.

profitius · 22-05-2012 01:36PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

We've been hearing this since Kidney left.

They can't get any worse than this season. Apart from on or two games the performances have been well below expectations.

Fishooks12 · 22-05-2012 01:39PM

If we get some more depth to our back row and front row, lose the reliance on ROG and play to the strengths of out best players we'll be the force we once were in a year or 2

Lot of if's though

Lelantos · 22-05-2012 02:09PM

Fishooks12 wrote: »

If we get some more depth to our back row and front row, lose the reliance on ROG and play to the strengths of out best players we'll be the force we once were in a year or 2

Lot of if's though

I wonder if Penney will perhaps look to poach some young Leinster players over the next 12 months?

Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

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