The Hazards of Belief

biko · 18-05-2012 03:16PM

The German government's attempts to unite different religious groups seem to be turning sour. Introducing lessons on Islam in schools was meant to help integrate the country's three million Muslims. But the policy is having some undesired effects.
Muslims pupils are leaving the schools radicalised.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86s-UWQ1DSI

robindch · 18-05-2012 04:13PM

biko wrote: »

Introducing lessons on Islam in schools was meant to help integrate the country's three million Muslims. But the policy is having some undesired effects. Muslims pupils are leaving the schools radicalised.

"Religious Men Causing Trouble in Schools" shocker!

Turtwig · 19-05-2012 10:28PM

Lesbian couple return from honeymoon to find home has been burnt down.

Hotblack Desiato · 20-05-2012 12:01AM

Ugh. Their child is the biggest victim in this

The Black Oil · 20-05-2012 02:02PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18108197

One Amish community in a northerly part of the state of New York is finding modern building regulations are encroaching on its way of life.

~~

But when he met with Andy Miller and the five other Amish men charged with contravening state building codes, he was certain that the town's building inspectors had violated America's first and greatest constitutional amendment - the right to worship freely.

What had provoked the inspectors to issue Stop Work Orders was the Amish men's refusal to install smoke alarms in their newly built houses.

In court and in broken English - their first language remains a German dialect - Andy Miller explained that it would be against their Christian beliefs to have something so modern in their homes.

See, I don't think you could have too much of a beef with the Amish, really. At least, I don't. Maybe there's something to be said for living through traditional methods. I'm not especially libertarian or anything, but I was wondering if they should really have to comply with building codes. Common sense says yes, of course, but they lost me here.

They hand-pumped water for washing, and there was an outdoor privy. The fire they cooked on prompted me to ask Mose about the smoke alarms.

"I use this," he said pointing at his nose, "or him," and his finger pointed upwards. "I don't need a devil on the wall to tell me if my house is burning."

I asked him what would happen if he did not wake up and all his children were burned to death.

"If God does not wake us, well, that must be part of his plan," Mose told me.

Wasn't sure how much to quote in view of Sherlock's law.

Bannasidhe · 20-05-2012 02:20PM

The Black Oil wrote: »

See, I don't think you could have too much of a beef with the Amish, really. At least, I don't. Maybe there's something to be said for living through traditional methods. I'm not especially libertarian or anything, but I was wondering if they should really have to comply with building codes. Common sense says yes, of course, but they lost me here.

Wasn't sure how much to quote in view of Sherlock's law.

Find me a religion and I'll find you a case (or 1000) of abuse :mad:

Four Amish men in southern Missouri pleaded guilty this week to endangering the welfare of a child.

The men, all elders within the Amish community, reportedly knew about the sexual abuse of two girls living among their flock in the Ozark town of Seymour but failed to report the allegations to authorities.

Like a similar story unfolding in an Amish community in northeastern Missouri, the elders had hoped to reform the sex offender on their own.

According to one report one of the elders told a Webster County sheriff's investigator "that it was against the Amish Rules to report child sexual abuse," and that they had shunned Johnny Schwartz twice for the sexual abuse of his daughters.

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2010/10/amish_elders_plead_guilty_to_harboring_sex_offender.php

They shunned him twice???? So does this mean they un-shunned him once after they knew he had abused his daughters and then re-shunned him when he did it again?

It really comes down to does a person's religious belief give them permission to ignore civil laws which conflict with their beliefs - the actual law in question is not relevant, be it installing smoke alarms or reporting the sexual abuse of children - it's whether religion gives you a 'get out of jail free' card as some seem to feel it should.

ShooterSF · 20-05-2012 05:36PM

The Black Oil wrote: »

See, I don't think you could have too much of a beef with the Amish, really. At least, I don't.

I do. They force this lifestyle on their children and it's worse than any catholic indoctrination in this country as it's many times harder to shake off. They want to put their own rules above the states and as above most likely, as a result, protect wrong doers from the law.

Mostly though it's the indoctrination of children. People seem to look past it as it's cute to see people living like that if you ignore the lack of real choice they had in that lifestyle to begin with.

Hotblack Desiato · 20-05-2012 07:04PM

It's just stupidity to say that all human inventions up to an arbitrary point in history are OK, but anything invented after that is evil.

Delirium · 21-05-2012 10:54AM

Scientology cult ordered me to have an abortion

A BRITISH mum who escaped Scientology after 20 years has revealed her hell in the clutches of the weird secretive cult that targets Hollywood celebs.

In a startling expose of the sci-fi inspired church — which boasts Tom Cruise and John Travolta as leading members — brave Sam Domingo, 45, from Kent, says they:

FORCED her to have an abortion when her husband got her pregnant because cult leaders didn’t approve

PUNISHED her for disobedience by making her dig a huge hole in frozen earth with a pickaxe for two weeks

SENT her to indoctrinate rich stars at the Scientology Celebrity Centre in Hollywood

TOOK her passport away so she couldn't flee and fly home

MADE her scrub a tunnel full of rats and cockroaches for being “disloyal”.

Penn · 21-05-2012 11:01AM

koth wrote: »

Scientology cult ordered me to have an abortion

That is generally what I always figured. The rich and famous Scientologists lead the good life while the ordinary Scientologists are forced to do all the real batsh*t crazy stuff for batsh*t crazy reasons.

magicbastarder · 21-05-2012 12:11PM

ShooterSF wrote: »

I do. They force this lifestyle on their children and it's worse than any catholic indoctrination in this country as it's many times harder to shake off.

don't the amish send their kids off in their teens to live in the outside world, so they can make an informed choice about what life they want to lead?

Galvasean · 21-05-2012 12:17PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

don't the amish send their kids off in their teens to live in the outside world, so they can make an informed choice about what life they want to lead?

In their 20s. By that time they've been so brainwashed that they are afraid of a friggin' toaster.
Of course the ones that do decide the Amish life is no longer for them get shunned and are not allowed see their family again. If that isn't emotional blackmail I don't know what is.

Bannasidhe · 21-05-2012 12:57PM

Galvasean wrote: »

In their 20s. By that time they've been so brainwashed that they are afraid of a friggin' toaster.
Of course the ones that do decide the Amish life is no longer for them get shunned and are not allowed see their family again. If that isn't emotional blackmail I don't know what is.

Absolutely. They are sent out into a world of technology, drugs, alcohol, bureaucracy, porn etc without any of the required mental tools for survival. Yes, many go back - fear is a great motivator and 'home' is the place they understand the rules. Many also succumb to drugs, homelessness and depression due to being babes in the modern world.

21-05-2012 02:30PM

Galvasean wrote: »

Of course the ones that do decide the Amish life is no longer for them get shunned and are not allowed see their family again. If that isn't emotional blackmail I don't know what is.

No, that's if they decide to get baptised and then later defect
if they just move out of the community or whatever i think it's fine, though obviously not as close as before

robindch · 21-05-2012 02:37PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

don't the amish send their kids off in their teens to live in the outside world, so they can make an informed choice about what life they want to lead?

As above, I think a lot of them choose to spend two years in the real world in their early twenties, at the end of which, if they choose to return, they've to make a commitment to the general terms and conditions of the Amish religion.

Now, call me a cynical ol' bast*rd, but I can't help wonder if this is as much a way of cementing compliant people into a society, as it is a way of getting rid of non-compliant ones. If so, then it's an elegant evolutionary adaption.

Bannasidhe · 21-05-2012 02:57PM

robindch wrote: »

As above, I think a lot of them choose to spend two years in the real world in their early twenties, at the end of which, if they choose to return, they've to make a commitment to the general terms and conditions of the Amish religion.

Now, call me a cynical ol' bast*rd, but I can't help wonder if this is as much a way of cementing compliant people into a society, as it is a way of getting rid of non-compliant ones. If so, then it's an elegant evolutionary adaption.

Not all Amish communities follow this practice - it's called the Rumspringa - among those that do it begins at age 16.
So 16 year olds who have seen the modern world only as self excluded outsiders are thrust out into this alien and hostile environment to decide their future.

Most of us who have experience of 16 year olds would be concerned at sending them to do the weekly shopping alone- what the Amish do is the equivalent of us sending our 16 year olds off to live in a country like France alone for a year. They might have some knowledge of French society, language etc but would be totally unprepared for gaining housing, employment ec or dealing with 'temptations' such as drugs.

I mean, I'm 47. I've lived in many countries across the globe. I have enough smatterings of various languages to allow me to get my basic needs met but drop me in the middle of Japan (which I have visited) and I would be fecked and very happy to get myself back to a place where I understand how things work.

Now, I have no issue with 16 year olds being expected to take on more adult responsibilities but I do question the motives behind the idea of sending these 16 year olds out into a world they are completely unprepared for.

Maybe, like Robinch, I am a cynic...

shizz · 21-05-2012 10:02PM

I'm watching this video of Thunderf00t interviewing the Westboro Baptist Church on youtube. I won't embed it because it's really disturbing but if anyone wants to watch it here

I happened to go to their website and noticed that they believe that God killed 16 BILLION people by the flood?! I know there isn't an ounce of logic used by these guys but it's awful.

Turtwig · 21-05-2012 11:42PM

Thesis progressing nicely then? :pac:

Delirium · 24-05-2012 08:01AM

Afghan schoolgirls 'poisoned by Taliban'

More than 120 schoolgirls and three teachers have been poisoned in the second attack in as many months in Afghanistan blamed on conservative radicals in the country's north, Afghan police and education officials have said.

The attack occurred on Wednesday in Takhar province where police said the Taliban, who are opposed to education of women and girls, had used an unidentified toxic powder to contaminate the air in classrooms, leaving scores of students unconscious.

Afghanistan's intelligence agency, the National Directorate of Security (NDS), said the Taliban appear intent on closing schools ahead of a 2014 withdrawal by foreign combat troops.

24-05-2012 09:03AM

fcukers :mad: round them up and shoot them :mad:

shizz · 24-05-2012 09:30AM

Jernal wrote: »

Thesis progressing nicely then? :pac:

Why do they believe that many were killed by the flood? Where does the figure come from? It doesn't say it in the bible does it?

Hotblack Desiato · 24-05-2012 07:13PM

Yeah, we need to know if it's in the Bible, or just made up!

oh. wait.

recedite · 24-05-2012 08:10PM

shizz wrote: »

Why do they believe that many were killed by the flood? Where does the figure come from? It doesn't say it in the bible does it?

I don't think mathematical accuracy is one of their strengths. The main point is; God hates loads of people and He doesnt hesitate to kill randomly. So be afraid, be very afraid.

joseph brand · 25-05-2012 12:16PM

WARNING: NSFW (Dead bodies)

Salvation Assured in the Ganges.

http://imgur.com/a/x0UQO

My friend is a Hindu from North West India and when I showed him this, he replied in an email:

Question :Wonder why i gave up my indian citizenship to become Irish citizen..
Answer : Becoz theses type of people who just dont want to grow and keep up with 21st century india ahead..

Man its scary.. imagine going for a visit at night ? WTF..

Delirium · 25-05-2012 12:43PM

American pastor (not in video) wants gays/lesbians imprisoned and let die.:eek::eek:

From the video, "if they (gay people) can't reproduce, they will die out".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez0AMf2U5RU

shizz · 25-05-2012 12:44PM

recedite wrote: »

I don't think mathematical accuracy is one of their strengths. The main point is; God hates loads of people and He doesnt hesitate to kill randomly. So be afraid, be very afraid.

Yeah but I've seen it mentioned outside of the westboro baptist church so I thought that they may have put forward some reasoning behind it. And when I say reasoning I mean their deluded reasoning.

MetalDog · 26-05-2012 08:25AM

koth wrote: »

American pastor (not in video) wants gays/lesbians imprisoned and let die.:eek::eek:

From the video, "if they (gay people) can't reproduce, they will die out".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez0AMf2U5RU

I think watching that video gave me brain damage:eek:

Banbh · 26-05-2012 04:38PM

This woman has just been hired by a Government Minister here as a spin doctor dealing with the press - at higher than the pay limit of course.

robindch · 27-05-2012 04:46AM

koth wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez0AMf2U5RU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

Gbear · 30-05-2012 11:23PM

Somewhat disturbing.

Edit: So disturbing I'll double check it because there's no ****ing way... brb

Right, so from wiki
"In the United States, seven state constitutions officially include religious tests that would effectively prevent atheists from holding public office, and in some cases being a juror/witness, though these have not generally been enforced since the early nineteenth century."

The Hazards of Belief

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