Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

1…295296298300301…321

Comments

  • #8912
    ormond lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,632 ✭✭✭ormond lad


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    Tbf, more backrowers are starting to come through. POM was probably our forward of the season, and DOCv2.0, TOD and Butler all improved to one degree or another. Question marks over all of them still but they are coming through.
    TOD has improved but is 25 and made his debut nearly 5 years ago. When exactly will he have "came through"?
    POM,DOC 2.0 and Butler are young enough but Butler has been on a munster contract for 2 years at this stage. Compare his development to his fellow backrows on irish 20s 2 years ago.
    Butler is a good player but why is it taking so bloody long for him to play regularly in the pro12?


  • #8913
    Fishooks12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Fishooks12


    ormond lad wrote: »
    TOD has improved but is 25 and made his debut nearly 5 years ago. When exactly will he have "came through"?
    POM,DOC 2.0 and Butler are young enough but Butler has been on a munster contract for 2 years at this stage. Compare his development to his fellow backrows on irish 20s 2 years ago.
    Butler is a good player but why is it taking so bloody long for him to play regularly in the pro12?

    I think Butler should have been put starting at 8 when Couglan got injured. He was playing well in his cameos up until that and It would have been a vote of confidence


  • #8914
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    ormond lad wrote: »
    TOD has improved but is 25 and made his debut nearly 5 years ago. When exactly will he have "came through"?
    POM,DOC 2.0 and Butler are young enough but Butler has been on a munster contract for 2 years at this stage. Compare his development to his fellow backrows on irish 20s 2 years ago.
    Butler is a good player but why is it taking so bloody long for him to play regularly in the pro12?

    My own view is Butler isn't ready for the battering a player who plays like he plays would take in a pro game. He's not physically ready to have his body match his mindset on the pitch, nor, imo is POM but we've been forced into over-playing him due to injury.


  • #8915
    Fishooks12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Fishooks12


    Butler is still only 21 btw


  • #8916
    buck65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,969 ✭✭✭buck65


    I was impressed by O Donnell this year especially in the last few games. There was one game recently away to Scarletts in the league where he gave an absolute exhibition at 7 for about 25 mins before going off injured but he was all over every thing and turned over 3 balls.
    With a decent 6 and 8 beside him he will be good next season.


  • Advertisement
  • #8917
    touts
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭touts


    buck65 wrote: »
    I was impressed by O Donnell this year especially in the last few games. There was one game recently away to Scarletts in the league where he gave an absolute exhibition at 7 for about 25 mins before going off injured but he was all over every thing and turned over 3 balls.
    With a decent 6 and 8 beside him he will be good next season.

    He was very much outclassed in the Pro-12 semi. I know the whole team collapsed but he seemed to be one of the first to go and the rest cascaded after. He needs to step up his game next season and can't rely on having decent players around him to cover any mistake. Wallace is gone and it looks iffy if Leamy will be back any time soon. It doesn't look like there will be any major signings for next year as most big moves are done and there doesn't seem to be much money anyway. So TOD needs to look at PO'M as a template on how to grasp the opportunity of the red jersey. At this stage the young lads coming up are looking to him to help them.


  • #8918
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,468 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    I'd have thought they're waiting to see how Leamy gets on this week.

    I'd assume they'd be looking at someone without offering anything until they hear whether he will be able to continue playing.


  • #8919
    buck65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,969 ✭✭✭buck65


    O Donnell finished the season as first choice 7, his jersey to lose I think.


  • #8920
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    buck65 wrote: »
    O Donnell finished the season as first choice 7, his jersey to lose I think.

    The only backrower I'd say "owns" their place right now is POM and he is good enough to play at 6, 7 or 8.


  • #8921
    onlyrocknroll
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 750 ✭✭✭onlyrocknroll


    If Ronan hits his pre-injury form he'll definitely start ahead of TOD IMO.


  • Advertisement
  • #8922
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,595 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    The only backrower I'd say "owns" their place right now is POM and he is good enough to play at 6, 7 or 8.

    Agreed POM will play in the starting backrow next season. Apart from that its all to play for, DOC2.0, Butler, TOD, as well new boy Dougall, and older warhorses Leamy, Coughlan and Roan could all start. I reckon the first six or seven Pro12 games will be Penney trying things out throughout the team but especially in the backrow.


  • #8923
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    buck65 wrote: »
    O Donnell finished the season as first choice 7, his jersey to lose I think.

    He'll be doing well to hang onto the jersey for a full season. He is a decent player but not as influential as Ronan can be. Also, if Leamy comes back into proceedings or DOC2 continues his impressive rise, I'd expect them to take the 6 jersey and POM to take the 7 jersey. At 25, TOD might just be that little bit too late to ever establish himself in the most competitive area of Irish rugby.


  • #8924
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    Very hard to predict what will happen, Penney will have his work cut out for him.

    On the one hand we have the solid pros like Ronan, Holland and Coughlan. Then we've a rake of young players like TOD, DOC2, Butler and Dougall.

    the only international standard backrower we currently have is POM and he's not near the standard of the starting Irish backrow, imo, on the assumption Leamy will have to retire.


  • #8925
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    Apparently Leamy has called it a day. Still awaiting the official announcement but it's rife on MF that he has already spoken to the Munster set up and informed them.


  • #8926
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,595 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    GerM wrote: »
    Apparently Leamy has called it a day. Still awaiting the official announcement but it's rife on MF that he has already spoken to the Munster set up and informed them.

    I know that he was supposed to see a specialist last Thursday or Friday to decide whether or not he needed to retire. When nothing was announced I kind of assumed that he was going to be ok, but maybe he just needed to sit on it for a few days before announcing.

    Its a pity to see him go.

    Fitzgerald said that they would look at a project backrow if Leamy had to retire a while back


  • #8927
    Fireball07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭Fireball07


    Sad day, he was a very good player at his best. I think he gets an unfairly hard time sometimes. He may not have ever been world class but he was pretty good. Never looked out of place at the highest level. Scored some important tries. We'll miss him, I think.


  • #8928
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    Fireball07 wrote: »
    Sad day, he was a very good player at his best. I think he gets an unfairly hard time sometimes. He may not have ever been world class but he was pretty good. Never looked out of place at the highest level. Scored some important tries. We'll miss him, I think.

    I think he could have made Lions tours if the likes of Powell make them but injuries really robbed him of his best years. Still, a top player who gave his all, we'll miss him.


  • #8929
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,769 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Excellent player in his day - think the general opinion of him would be a lot higher if he'd played all his rugby at 6 and not at 8. Still had some great days at 8 though - he was absolutely phenomenal in that game were we tonked SA in Lansdowne.


  • #8930
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Excellent player in his day - think the general opinion of him would be a lot higher if he'd played all his rugby at 6 and not at 8. Still had some great days at 8 though - he was absolutely phenomenal in that game were we tonked SA in Lansdowne.

    was massive for Ireland against NZ in NZ once, iirc, at 8. It's worth remembering he's only been fit on and off since 2007.


  • #8931
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,769 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Same tour that Neil Best was amazing at 6. Irish backrow really took it to NZ.

    Unfortunately his game at 8 relied a lot on power more then guile, so the injuries really hampered his ability to play there.


  • Advertisement
  • #8932
    darragh_haven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,433 ✭✭✭darragh_haven


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    I know that he was supposed to see a specialist last Thursday or Friday to decide whether or not he needed to retire. When nothing was announced I kind of assumed that he was going to be ok, but maybe he just needed to sit on it for a few days before announcing.

    Its a pity to see him go.

    Fitzgerald said that they would look at a project backrow if Leamy had to retire a while back

    I met him in Stansted airport on Thursday, he said he had just been to see the specialist and he'd know in 5 to 10 days if he could continue or not. Then i saw him walk off the plane in cork...... I'm no specialist but i didn't he'd play again


  • #8933
    thomond2006
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Such a shame that Denis' career was ruined by injuries, really top player.


  • #8934
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Same tour that Neil Best was amazing at 6. Irish backrow really took it to NZ.

    Unfortunately his game at 8 relied a lot on power more then guile, so the injuries really hampered his ability to play there.

    It's the nature of the position I think, careers are going to get shorter. It's something of a miracle Ferris is still going. Heaslip badly needs a break too imo.


  • #8935
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    What does this mean for the squad then?

    Id imagine the 6s will be POM and DOC 2 now with D. Ryan covering for H Cup games in the case of an injury to POM. Munster will also need something else if there's an injury to DOC 2.0 which coincides with an international window. We might see players out of position if that's the case.

    As for 7s Munster have a lot of players and not a massive amount of quality. I don't mean to be overly harsh but I think Ronan/TOD are excellent Magners players but they could be targeted at the highest level. Still there is plenty of depth and Dougall might even be an upgrade. And if DOC 2.0 becomes a H Cup standard player then POM at 7 becomes an option. I think that of the two boys Ronan is the better player currently but TOD is more of a physical presence which means he could possibly eventually become the better player.

    At 8 Munster have both great talent and depth in Coughlan/Butler/POM all capable of playing there. Hopefully all will get time there.


    Munster need an answer at 7 for the highest level going forward though. Apart from that I think they've a great back row and will be fine.


  • #8936
    Fireball07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭Fireball07


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    What does this mean for the squad then?

    Id imagine the 6s will be POM and DOC 2 now with D. Ryan covering for H Cup games in the case of an injury to POM. Munster will also need something else if there's an injury to DOC 2.0 which coincides with an international window. We might see players out of position if that's the case.

    As for 7s Munster have a lot of players and not a massive amount of quality. I don't mean to be overly harsh but I think Ronan/TOD are excellent Magners players but they could be targeted at the highest level. Still there is plenty of depth and Dougall might even be an upgrade. And if DOC 2.0 becomes a H Cup standard player then POM at 7 becomes an option. I think that of the two boys Ronan is the better player currently but TOD is more of a physical presence which means he could possibly eventually become the better player.

    At 8 Munster have both great talent and depth in Coughlan/Butler/POM all capable of playing there. Hopefully all will get time there.


    Munster need an answer at 7 for the highest level going forward though. Apart from that I think they've a great back row and will be fine.


    I'd like a project back row player...but it'd have to be someone pretty good to make it worth it. We have plenty of good players, but we need someone on the next level, and it's not that easy to find those kind of players just knocking around.

    Hopefully Dougall will turn out well, POM is a great asset as he has played brilliantly at 6, 7 and 8. I suppose he's got to pick a position for himself eventually. With Wallace and Leamy retiring, I am disappointed we didn't get Ruddock. His Ireland chances would have massively increased and he'd have improved our back row as of now. Hopefully DOC2 will grow as a player though.


  • #8937
    Cpt_Blackbeard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,456 ✭✭✭Cpt_Blackbeard


    With Wallace retired and Leamy likely to follow him out the door, a ball-carrying backrow is really needed for the next year at least. We have a project-player spot open to be filled, but we don't need a young promising youngster, we have plenty of those.

    Munster really need an allocation of an extra NIQ spot to cover us for the next year or so. If Ulster can be afforded a cash injection which earns them a spot in the HEC final, we should be afforded some leeway to help with our extraordinary circumstances.


  • #8938
    shuffol
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭shuffol


    Sad news, remember his performance away to Perpignan in 09 when he was outstanding, got a bad injury that day and IMO hasnt been the same player since. Very unlucky not to make the Lions tour in 09 when there was a few injuries and Ryan Jones got called up as cover.

    A lot of experience lost in that Munster backrow, could do with a marquee signing to take pressure off the younger players.


  • #8939
    thomond2006
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »
    With Wallace retired and Leamy likely to follow him out the door, a ball-carrying backrow is really needed for the next year at least. We have a project-player spot open to be filled, but we don't need a young promising youngster, we have plenty of those.

    Munster really need an allocation of an extra NIQ spot to cover us for the next year or so. If Ulster can be afforded a cash injection which earns them a spot in the HEC final, we should be afforded some leeway to help with our extraordinary circumstances.

    It would be great if Penney could bring Matt Todd over. Proper openside and won't make the All Blacks till McCaw retires anyway.


  • #8940
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    Justin Downey, the flanker playing Super Rugby for the Cheetahs this season, any poster have a clue if he has Irish heritage? Seems a solid player and, at 25, is unlikely to get a shot at the Boks. Could be a handy signing if he does.

    Would expect Munster to make a big signing in the back row but I wonder is it a year too late. Players would have been looking to move on the back of finishing the WC or not making the WC squad. I wonder how many top quality back row players are going to be floating about this summer. With Kaino gone, the likes of Thompson and Vito won't want to leave NZ. Matt Todd has only broken through in the past year so can't see him wanting to leave NZ. Few possible players floating around SA who seem to produce quality flankers for fun. Josh Strauss has looked good this season. Duane Vermeulen is someone that would add serious power to the back row too and would be project player status too I think.


  • Advertisement
  • #8941
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,769 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Regardless of whether it is a year too late, its almost certainly a few months too late. Who could they sign at this time of the year? Anyone planning to come north would surely have it planned before now?


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement