Female vocalists just dont do it for me.

SilverScreen · 12-03-2012 10:07PM

cloptrop wrote: »

PJ Harvey made me wanna tap my foot , maybe its the industry as a whole that doesnt bother putting a decent backing track to female vocals , there just seems to be intro verse chorus, where pink floyd would have intro , interlude , some more intro , part where the intro rocks , verse , some more awesome stuff , bit more verse , chorus etc etc.
Maybe thats what Im missing with girl frontmen/women.

This is one of the most musically-clueless statements I've ever read on these boards.

If you think that music is all about having the most complex song structures and as many guitar solos as possible you have missed the point of music by a long shot. If you listen to any PJ Harvey album, Dry or Rid Of Me for example, you should notice that it is bursting at the seems with raw intensity and emotion because she never holds anything back. This kind of open expression is just as engaging, or sometimes even more engaging, than interesting song structures and arrangements. I love Pink Floyd by the way, and I'd even admit I'm wearing a DSOTM t-shirt right now (yeah I'm a loser), and I hold both them and PJ Harvey in very high regard for what they do despite both of them being very musically different from each other.

In my opinion female vocals even suit certain types of music better than male vocals. With some shoegaze and dream-pop bands like Slowdive, Cranes, My Bloody Valentine, Cocteau Twins and Medicine female vocals seem to enhance the music and add to the floaty ambience, which deeper male vocals don't quite do. For example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3diz8I0AVVk

And yes Cocteau Twins were one of the most innovative and inventive bands of the 80's.

Rigsby · 12-03-2012 10:20PM

cloptrop wrote: »

Rigsby , I said I liked some of the stuff you posted up , I am not a fisherman though I think you have me confused with the waterboys.

I think you are the one who is confused.

I posted no sample clips.

cloptrop · 12-03-2012 10:26PM

Zero1986 wrote: »

This is one of the most musically-clueless statements I've ever read on these boards.

If you think that music is all about having the most complex song structures and as many guitar solos as possible you have missed the point of music by a long shot. If you listen to any PJ Harvey album, Dry or Rid Of Me for example, you should notice that it is bursting at the seems with raw intensity and emotion because she never holds anything back. This kind of open expression is just as engaging, or sometimes even more engaging, than interesting song structures and arrangements. I love Pink Floyd by the way, and I'd even admit I'm wearing a DSOTM t-shirt right now (yeah I'm a loser), and I hold both them and PJ Harvey in very high regard for what they do despite both of them being very musically different from each other.

In my opinion female vocals even suit certain types of music better than male vocals. With some shoegaze and dream-pop bands like Slowdive, Cranes, My Bloody Valentine, Cocteau Twins and Medicine female vocals seem to enhance the music and add to the floaty ambience, which deeper male vocals don't quite do. For example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3diz8I0AVVk

And yes Cocteau Twins were one of the most innovative and inventive bands of the 80's.

This is one of the most musically-clueless statements I've ever read on these boards.

Thank god you have told me this , I will now burn my huge stash of music. How dare I have an opinion.

If you think that music is all about having the most complex song structures and as many guitar solos as possible you have missed the point of music by a long shot.

That wasnt what I said , you didnt read the full thread I reckon .

If you listen to any PJ Harvey album, Dry or Rid Of Me for example, you should notice that it is bursting at the seems with raw intensity and emotion because she never holds anything back. This kind of open expression is just as engaging, or sometimes even more engaging, than interesting song structures and arrangements

If you say so , in my opinion intensity and emotion alone does not a good song make .

With some shoegaze and dream-pop bands like Slowdive, Cranes, My Bloody Valentine, Cocteau Twins and Medicine female vocals seem to enhance the music and add to the floaty ambience, which deeper male vocals don't quite do. For example

Oh yeah shoegaze and dreampop , they have sections in every music shop for this section of music,,, oh hang on , no they dont , you have a musical taste different from most with your shoegaze dreampop music and yet me having a different opinion to you upsets you so .

I'm wearing a DSOTM t-shirt right now (yeah I'm a loser), and I hold both them and PJ Harvey in very high regard for what they do despite both of them being very musically different from each other.

In one of my posts I said pj Harvey was quite good , then I said but in general ,,,,,,blah blah blah , I think i said she makes me tap my foot or something .

Rigsby · 12-03-2012 10:34PM

I cant really see the point of this thread. If female vocalists dont "do it" for the OP, then that's his loss.

Da Shins Kelly · 12-03-2012 10:35PM

cloptrop wrote: »

Third Da Shins Kelly , let it go man It was like 2 months ago and I think rappers get a bit more credit than they deserve , that is not trolling its an opinion

You said a lot more than that. And also, you brought it up again a couple of days ago in another thread.

Clearly a troll.

Rigsby · 12-03-2012 10:44PM

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

a troll.

...can only survive by being fed, which is what you lads are doing IMO.

SilverScreen · 12-03-2012 10:50PM

cloptrop wrote: »

Thank god you have told me this , I will now burn my huge stash of music. How dare I have an opinion.

You're welcome.

cloptrop wrote: »

If you say so , in my opinion intensity and emotion alone does not a good song make .

I never said alone, but genuine intensity and emotion are key traits I look for in music a lot of the time. Some female musicians such as Cat Power and Kathleen Hanna can really pull it off, you know it when you hear it

cloptrop wrote: »

Oh yeah shoegaze and dreampop , they have sections in every music shop for this section of music,,, oh hang on , no they dont , you have a musical taste different from most with your shoegaze dreampop music and yet me having a different opinion to you upsets you so .

What has this even got to do with the topic? Of course they don't, even Tower Records isn't that specialised. You don't even have to have a music taste different from most to be offended about misinformed views on female musicians.

cloptrop wrote: »

In one of my posts I said pj Harvey was quite good , then I said but in general ,,,,,,blah blah blah , I think i said she makes me tap my foot or something .

I have no idea what you are trying to get at here.

cloptrop · 12-03-2012 10:57PM

Lads if this thread upsets you so much dont read it.
Its that simple . Start a thread about how great beyonce is if you must , I started this to ask questions and today you have decided to get very offended for some reason, probably because the mod started it and you are all jumping on the bandwagon .
If I was trolling I could go other ways about it, saying jazz music is crap , or larry murphy is cool would target a much bigger audience rather than going to the music section and having like 7 people post on it.
Im honestly asking a question do fans of classic rock music go and buy music from bands with female vocalists.
This offends people so much ?

LH Pathe · 12-03-2012 11:13PM

claptrop you should just accept my angle. chick music is like chick flick and highly unlikely to titillate a mansman! I am uncomfortable wit cosy familiarity and safety in music, I do like to be cerebrally and musically challenged by music in equal measure and to hear new ground forged.. too few women do this for me.

cloptrop · 12-03-2012 11:15PM

LH Pathe wrote: »

claptrop you should just accept my angle. chick music is like chick flick and highly unlikely to titillate a mansman! I am uncomfortable wit cosy familiarity and safety in music, I do like to be cerebrally and musically challenged by music in equal measure and to hear new ground forged.. too few women do this for me.

Thank you , You say things my mouth tries to say . Somehow when I say it it sounds like Im bashing baby seals though.

SilverScreen · 12-03-2012 11:23PM

cloptrop wrote: »

Lads if this thread upsets you so much dont read it.
Its that simple . Start a thread about how great beyonce is if you must , I started this to ask questions and today you have decided to get very offended for some reason, probably because the mod started it and you are all jumping on the bandwagon .
If I was trolling I could go other ways about it, saying jazz music is crap , or larry murphy is cool would target a much bigger audience rather than going to the music section and having like 7 people post on it.
Im honestly asking a question do fans of classic rock music go and buy music from bands with female vocalists.
This offends people so much ?

It's not the fact that you don't have a preference for female vocalists that bugs me, I can deal with that, it's more the manner in which you've expressed your views. Men and women may not have equal footing in music but you can't really be oblivious to the fact that there are still a lot of talented female vocalists, songwriters and musicians out there.

mikeyboy · 12-03-2012 11:25PM

cloptrop wrote: »

.
Im honestly asking a question do fans of classic rock music go and buy music from bands with female vocalists?

Well I for one certainly do and here are some of my favourites, enjoy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPkTGm4RtVM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOtxdeyI024

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk-TxTt89xA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_sxed3idqc

Finally two of the finest female rock vocalists of all time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b95GGEotwXg

LH Pathe · 12-03-2012 11:26PM

I guess men just push the 'boundaries' in this field of free expression on such a level there will never be equality here. Adventure is in our nature, distinctly moreso.

cloptrop · 12-03-2012 11:36PM

LH Pathe wrote: »

I guess men just push the 'boundaries' in this field of free expression on such a level there will never be equality here. Adventure is in our nature, distinctly moreso.

Watch for the dozen posts of middle of the road youtube videos of women singing do you know the way to san jose and you being called a troll .
Maybe I need to change my name , I could ask for directions to Galway here and be called a troll.

cloptrop · 13-03-2012 12:52AM

Oh I do think Joan Biaz is pure quality

Silver dagger , god on our side , she has a few great songs but I woudnt call any of them rock really.

cruizer101 · 13-03-2012 01:15AM

I, man, actually often prefer female vocals, thanks to all the people posting good female singers lots of new listening here for me now.
Not even sure why its just a preference. This isn't to say don't like lots of men singing, and would never judge based on sex alone.

jill_valentine · 13-03-2012 03:09AM

There are more male-fronted bands making the kind of music I like, but by and large I prefer female vocalists to listen to. I think they're more expressive, and it makes for a nice contrast with big feedbacky rock, like Land of Talk. Liz Powell is probably my favourite voice in rock.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPnVkl4lFQ4

odonopenmic · 13-03-2012 01:28PM

cloptrop wrote: »

Yeah I think men push the boundaries of 3 chords verse chorus more than women do .
I think women are still on the page of old style male crooners, apart from the few.
Its not their fault its the industry and their management . Ok it sounds pretty but it doesnt make me wanna pick up a guitar or tell the bus driver to floor it.

Cloptrop, I've been thinking about this again...

Many excellent examples of female performers have been highlighted so far in this thread. Many are performers and composers but in in many other cases, the songs that women are performing are written and produced by men - I'd say more often than not, this happens in the pop genre, Destiny's Child and the like that you initially pointed out as problematic in your opening post.

At this point, I don't think it makes any sense to dismiss women, specifically, by saying that they are not pushing boundaries or are just singing about women's stuff as if in these instances, it's being written and produced by men. It is also worth noting that women write many hits for men. Carol King was a prime example who had many rock and roll hits in the 60s, sang by men but I don't hear anyone singling out these songs as odd, somehow, because they're feminine themes (or men yacking on about clothes)? :rolleyes:

You say above "it's not their fault, it's the industry and their management' and to some extent this may be a factor in some cases where the music is male-led (in writing or production). However writing all women off by saying that 'it's not their fault' makes passive entities of all women performers, simply doing what they're told by their male puppeteers/society/d'industry and this is not only untrue, it's quite offensive. There are many women who write, perform and rock harder than their male counterparts - that is absolutely 'their fault' and I for one, am very glad of it.

So, at this point, I'm totally confused. Is is simply a woman's voice, is it the theme of the songs, is it the delivery/performance, or other that you have a specific issue with? Because the vaguer the argument, the more it does feel like you're just taking pot-shots.

rcaz · 13-03-2012 01:42PM

All the while I read this thread I'm thinking, no matter how well-formed and balanced the arguments and discussions in this thread are, it feels completely ignorant and backward to even dignify the topic with a discussion.

Irish Guitarist · 13-03-2012 04:13PM

There aren't many males who pretty much launched a whole genre of music. Sylvia Robinson (who, as the name suggests, was a woman) did though.

She was half of the duo Mickey and Sylvia who had a 1950s hit with Love Is Strange (which was covered by Buddy Holly). She didn't write the song but in the late seventies she co-write a lot of songs she put out on her own label, Sugar Hill Records. The first record the label put out was Rappers Delight by The Sugarhill Gang. The second was The Message by Grandmaster Flash And The Furious Five. She co-wrote both of these songs, which respectively were the first and second records by rap acts. They have very little to do with 'womens stuff'.

While she certainly didn't invent rap she did introduce it to the world outside of New York. In that respect she could be said to be the female counterpart of someone like Sam Phillips.

Latchy · 13-03-2012 04:18PM

rcaz states what many including myself have only been thinking .

One would have to have a very limited scope and appreciation of music to exclude all the fantastic female vocalists ,many who have have been mentioned in the thread over the decades .

fufureida · 18-03-2012 06:16PM

Same, I just don't fancy female vocalists much either. I like Izzy from Halestorm though, she has some lungs on her and shes gorgeous too!

cloptrop · 18-03-2012 09:55PM

Im not writing women off Im just saying they arnt for me whats with all the negativity. Say if I said I just didnt like their pitch on a rock song , whats wrong with that its not an equal rights thing , itd be the same as saying I dont like songs in b major , or I dont like guitarists that play sitting down .
I never once came on and said women have no place in music , I just dont buy a rock groups album if they have a female lead singer. Some other people do . I dont buy pink shoes because they just arnt for me , why do people have to get upset.

SilverScreen · 18-03-2012 11:43PM

Why rock bands in particular? You never mentioned anything about rock in your original post.

cloptrop · 18-03-2012 11:46PM

Thatd be the music I mainly listen to , classic rock sort of stuff,

SilverScreen · 18-03-2012 11:52PM

cloptrop wrote: »

Thatd be the music I mainly listen to , classic rock sort of stuff,

Maybe that's you have trouble finding good female rock bands. There's not too many women in classic rock. If you expand your horizons a little bit and approach music with an open mind you can learn to appreciate female-fronted indie bands or electronic bands. Step outside your comfort zone.

Malice · 19-03-2012 02:42PM

cloptrop wrote:

I just dont buy a rock groups album if they have a female lead singer.

It seems to me that you're needlessly restricting yourself by having such an arbitrary censor in place. Do you really think none of the bands listed here appeal to you?

Technocentral · 19-03-2012 07:19PM

Faust, Liz Fraser and Lisa Gerrard are another three gems, though if you're going to limit yourself to dinosaur c*ck rock your unlikely to appreciate them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mUmdR69nbM

cloptrop · 19-03-2012 09:20PM

Technocentral wrote: »

Faust, Liz Fraser and Lisa Gerrard are another three gems, though if you're going to limit yourself to dinosaur c*ck rock your unlikely to appreciate them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mUmdR69nbM

I dont just listen to classic rock but this would be my primary stuff, I like everything from reggae to bits of heavy metal , I think the strokes are a great band , I do hear the odd good song from women fronting bands but I have never heard an album Id want . Maybe the odd single , like for example Jefferson Airplane , 3 or 4 songs that are worth listening to . From what else Ive heard <and Im not saying Im a specialist on them but Ive breezed through some of their stuff> its all filler.
Janis Joplin although a great singer with a few good songs gets way more credit than she deserves , shed two albums or something and half of both of them were average.

rcaz · 20-03-2012 12:47AM

cloptrop wrote: »

I just dont buy a rock groups album if they have a female lead singer.

How are you so sure they're no good then?

Female vocalists just dont do it for me.

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