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Irish Water - who will staff it?

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  • 08-02-2012 7:13pm
    #1
    unit 1
    Registered Users Posts: 548 ✭✭✭


    Ok, as a coco craftworker I'm wondering are there any people out there in the know as to how this is going to pan out.
    As someone who trained with a semistate and worked both abroad and in the private sector, some time ago I'll admit, I find myself hoping that the new body will make a refreshing change, should I get the opportunity to go with them.
    The reason quite frankly is that from my own experience, with one coco only, is that their ability to run these services can run from the sublime to the ridiculous. Yes we do supply some very good schemes and run/maintain them well, and sometimes closeby try to run ramshackle (especiall sewage) plants that can only be described as shamefull.
    The whole coco way of running these schemes is bedevilled with a complete lack of consistency, in management, repairs, maintainance, upgrades, improvements, and a complete subservience to outside consultants who hold sway in terms of design and construction.
    Hopefully a new body will have a management ethos that will encourage pride in the new body so that even mildly ambitious employees can react positively rather than the shure it'll do attitude that is so very hard to fight in cocos sometimes. I feel many coco staff are up to this, and unburdened with local issues, petty/not so petty political interference, poor leadership, career pathing, can make it an organisation fit for purpose.
    Any thoughts ideas would be welcome but please no ps bashing.


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    #2
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Council staff will be transferred, salary and conditions intact. Around 2 in 3 will be contractor staff once they settle down. It will have a CEO on some ridiculous salary and a regulator on an equally ridiculous salary who will be useless by deesign...that being what they did with the Electricity and Telecom sectors.


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    #3
    Comeagain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11 ✭Comeagain


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Council staff will be transferred, salary and conditions intact. Around 2 in 3 will be contractor staff once they settle down. It will have a CEO on some ridiculous salary and a regulator on an equally ridiculous salary who will be useless by deesign...that being what they did with the Electricity and Telecom sectors.


    Probably right. 2000 staff though. How many will come from the supposed public service jobs cuts? We are just creating yet another Semi-State that will be inefficient and costly with the tax payer taking the hit above and beyond the initial metering system and associated costs.


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    #4
    GetWithIt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭GetWithIt


    Comeagain wrote: »
    Probably right. 2000 staff though. How many will come from the supposed public service jobs cuts? We are just creating yet another Semi-State that will be inefficient and costly with the tax payer taking the hit above and beyond the initial metering system and associated costs.
    There's no way it can be more inefficient - and ineffective - than the existing structure.

    Imagine if each Local Authority managed it's own electricity network.


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    #5
    2rkehij30qtza5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭2rkehij30qtza5


    Sorry for resurrecting an old thread but I'm hearing of staff being employed by Irish Water (technical staff) and I'm not seeing these posts being advertised!
    How are these people getting these jobs?? I'd like to know as I'd be interested in applying but it seems to me that the jobs are not being advertised and yet I hear of people getting the jobs....

    Editing to add...the people I am hearing about are not Council staff.


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    #6
    Heroditas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭Heroditas


    Some people have already been moved over to Irish Water from Bord Gáis.


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    #7
    2rkehij30qtza5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭2rkehij30qtza5


    Heroditas wrote: »
    Some people have already been moved over to Irish Water from Bord Gáis.


    And some people have got in from the private sector (I know three) but I can't see where the posts are being advertised??


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    #8
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,435 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Quincy Calm Tablespoon wrote: »
    And some people have got in from the private sector (I know three) but I can't see where the posts are being advertised??

    If that is true, then the posts would of having to be advertised on www.publicjobs.ie


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    #9
    lynchieboy
    Registered Users Posts: 98 ✭✭lynchieboy


    Any work for Bord Gais is done by contractors such as Balfour Beaty, ESS, CLG, just look at the names on the vans. Irish water will be the same. Any one hoping to get a job with Irish water should look at these companies first, the direct jobs within Irish water will only be at management level and filled from within first.


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    #10
    2rkehij30qtza5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭2rkehij30qtza5


    lynchieboy wrote: »
    Any work for Bord Gais is done by contractors such as Balfour Beaty, ESS, CLG, just look at the names on the vans. Irish water will be the same. Any one hoping to get a job with Irish water should look at these companies first, the direct jobs within Irish water will only be at management level and filled from within first.

    Aaah. Upon further investigation the three people I have heard of have been recruited into companies under Board Gáis to work in Irish Water. Thanks!


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    #11
    Scipio76
    Registered Users Posts: 23 ✭Scipio76


    lynchieboy wrote: »
    Any work for Bord Gais is done by contractors such as Balfour Beaty, ESS, CLG, just look at the names on the vans. Irish water will be the same. Any one hoping to get a job with Irish water should look at these companies first, the direct jobs within Irish water will only be at management level and filled from within first.

    Why would they hire from civil engineering contractors? Makes no sense.

    Irish Water will be primarily staffed by existing personnel from the water services divisions of the local authorities.


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    #12
    2rkehij30qtza5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭2rkehij30qtza5


    Scipio76 wrote: »

    Why would they hire from civil engineering contractors? Makes no sense.

    Irish Water will be primarily staffed by existing personnel from the water services divisions of the local authorities.

    This is incorrect Scipio76. I say this with 100% certainty.


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    #13
    lynchieboy
    Registered Users Posts: 98 ✭✭lynchieboy


    Scipio76 wrote: »
    Why would they hire from civil engineering contractors? Makes no sense.

    Irish Water will be primarily staffed by existing personnel from the water services divisions of the local authorities.

    In my view and experience this will be at management level, all "lower end" work like electrical, plumbing etc will be phased out and, old legacy pay structures and work practices will die out when these workers leave or are offered a package and told to go, then a super contractor model will be used to provide all these services, there is nothing in Irish water that cant or wont be contracted out.


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    #14
    Daisy78
    Registered Users Posts: 1,028 ✭✭✭Daisy78


    As a local authority engineer in the water operations division I can say that there is no certainty that all or even some technical staff will be transferred over. It is likely that Irish water will operate with a skeletal management structure with most of the operational work being contracted out to private companies. But as staff are not being kept in the loop as to what will happen this is all speculation really.


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    #15
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,435 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Confirmed today that the MD of Irish Water will be John Tierney, Current Dublin City Council City Manager.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013/0129/365110-former-dublin-city-manager-to-head-up-irish-water/
    Former Dublin City Manager, John Tierney, has been appointed Managing Director of Irish Water.
    The announcement was made by Bord Gáis, within which the new water utility is being established.
    During his 35 year career in local government, Mr Tierney has worked in nine different local authorities across the country.
    "In his last three jobs as Manager in Dublin City, Fingal and Galway City, John has been heavily involved in the planning and delivery of major water services programmes," Rose Hynes, Chairman of Bord Gáis said.
    "He has also prioritised water services under Dublin City Council's smart city programme. John has the qualities and experience to lead the creation and operation of a national water utility that will meet the needs of all public water users," she concluded.
    John Tierney takes up the position in late April and his appointment is initially for a three-year term.


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    #16
    2rkehij30qtza5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭2rkehij30qtza5


    kceire wrote: »
    Confirmed today that the MD of Irish Water will be John Tierney, Current Dublin City Council City Manager.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013/0129/365110-former-dublin-city-manager-to-head-up-irish-water/

    The article says "FORMER" city manager, not current city manager. Don't know of any local authority employees who are going to be employed by Irish Water. There are local authority people going to the 'transition' offices to assist with the transfer of operations to Irish Water from local authorities but these are temporary posts and these people will then go back to their jobs in their local authority after a year or two.


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    #17
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,435 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Quincy Calm Tablespoon wrote: »
    The article says "FORMER" city manager, not current city manager. Don't know of any local authority employees who are going to be employed by Irish Water. There are local authority people going to the 'transition' offices to assist with the transfer of operations to Irish Water from local authorities but these are temporary posts and these people will then go back to their jobs in their local authority after a year or two.

    John Tierney is the current City Manager until the 28th April.


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    #18
    2rkehij30qtza5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭2rkehij30qtza5


    kceire wrote: »

    John Tierney is the current City Manager until the 28th April.

    Ok article reads former though.
    Even so, he will not be a local government employee anymore once he takes up the new role.


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    #19
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    kceire wrote: »
    Confirmed today that the MD of Irish Water will be John Tierney, Current Dublin City Council City Manager.

    Define irony: putting this guy over the national water supply.

    I wonder how he managed to explain his utter failure in sorting Galway's water quality problems, or if he was asked about it, since it's a major problem across the country.

    During his tenure as Galway city manager - which includes provision of water to a large number of Co Galway towns & villages - there were several city wide boil notices (usually every year/2 at most), culminating the the infamous cryptosporidium outbreak not long after he left, which was left undetected because of the lax testing regime of the water supply.


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    #20
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,435 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    .........................


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    #21
    serfboard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,675 ✭✭✭serfboard


    antoobrien wrote: »
    Define irony: putting this guy over the national water supply.

    I wonder how he managed to explain his utter failure in sorting Galway's water quality problems, or if he was asked about it, since it's a major problem across the country.

    During his tenure as Galway city manager - which includes provision of water to a large number of Co Galway towns & villages - there were several city wide boil notices (usually every year/2 at most), culminating the the infamous cryptosporidium outbreak not long after he left, which was left undetected because of the lax testing regime of the water supply.
    I presume his response to that would be that that problem was caused by under-investment.

    And in fairness, a large amount of money was invested in Galway after the crypto incident, thus proving the point.

    Since we will all be paying money directly to Irish Water in future, the problem of lack of resources should be reduced.


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    #22
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    serfboard wrote: »
    I presume his response to that would be that that problem was caused by under-investment.

    And in fairness, a large amount of money was invested in Galway after the crypto incident, thus proving the point.

    Since we will all be paying money directly to Irish Water in future, the problem of lack of resources should be reduced.

    I'm far more worried about the fact that they didn't know the testing guidelines before the crypto outbreak, something he would have had influence over. The fact that they only tested the water once a week, when it should have been far more frequent given the fact that the outflow from the city dump is 1 mile upstream from the treatment plant, beggars belief.

    Personally if I was picking someone for the job, I'd pick his successor in Galway who not only had to deal with crypto, but also had to deal with the unintended damage caused by the to the lead mains pipes used in Mervue.


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    #23
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,435 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Quincy Calm Tablespoon wrote: »
    Ok article reads former though.
    Even so, he will not be a local government employee anymore once he takes up the new role.

    Staff from the LA's are being recruited internally for Irish Water at present.

    Edit - 99% at Engineer level.


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    #24
    Hourglass
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭Hourglass


    kceire wrote: »

    Staff from the LA's are being recruited internally for Irish Water at present.

    Edit - 99% at Engineer level.

    Only for the transition offices...the posts are for 2 years to assist with the transfer of operations from LA to Irish Water. The LA staff are entitled to a secondment and will then revert back to their old jobs after the two years. There's a mix of technical and admin roles up for grabs but not very many. All Irish Water staff that I know of are being recruited in under Bord Gáis.


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    #25
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,435 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Hourglass wrote: »
    Only for the transition offices...the posts are for 2 years to assist with the transfer of operations from LA to Irish Water. The LA staff are entitled to a secondment and will then revert back to their old jobs after the two years. There's a mix of technical and admin roles up for grabs but not very many. All Irish Water staff that I know of are being recruited in under Bord Gáis.

    Yeah, very possible. I heard a whisper about that but didnt want to post it as i wasnt sure. Thanks for the clarification.


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    #26
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Are Irish water staff getting gold plated state backed pensions?
    Are they paying class A prsi?
    Are staff being paid the same as in the public sector?
    Will the regulator screw the plain people of Ireland to pay these high wages?

    Why aren't staff from Group schemes being recruited?


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    #27
    Bustler
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭Bustler


    watching with interest.


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    #28
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,435 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    Are Irish water staff getting gold plated state backed pensions?
    Are they paying class A prsi?
    Are staff being paid the same as in the public sector?
    Will the regulator screw the plain people of Ireland to pay these high wages?

    Why aren't staff from Group schemes being recruited?

    Staff are transferring on the same terms and conditions as their current employment ie. LA staff.

    For example, the MD will earn 250k but the average staff member will be a lot less than that.

    What difference would PRSI class make to us? If they currently pay class D then they will continue to pay class D, or A1 etc

    Also, have you any insight that the rest of us don't know about yet, in regards to your comment "Will the regulator screw the plain people of Ireland to pay these high wages?" In one line your asking what prsi is being paid, then in another your claiming high wages so which is it, either you know or you don't?


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    #29
    2rkehij30qtza5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭2rkehij30qtza5


    Hourglass wrote: »

    Only for the transition offices...the posts are for 2 years to assist with the transfer of operations from LA to Irish Water. The LA staff are entitled to a secondment and will then revert back to their old jobs after the two years. There's a mix of technical and admin roles up for grabs but not very many. All Irish Water staff that I know of are being recruited in under Bord Gáis.

    This is correct & what I said in an earlier post.
    No local authority staff are 'transferring' to Irish Water. They are allowed to apply to go to the transition offices for a set period of time. They will not be employed by Irish Water and will go back to their old jobs in their local authority after Water Services has been transferred over to Irish Water. The Irish Water staff are all being employed by Bord Gais.


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    #30
    Daisy78
    Registered Users Posts: 1,028 ✭✭✭Daisy78


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    Are Irish water staff getting gold plated state backed pensions?
    Are they paying class A prsi?
    Are staff being paid the same as in the public sector?
    Will the regulator screw the plain people of Ireland to pay these high wages?

    Why aren't staff from Group schemes being recruited?


    Well why should they accept more punitive terms and conditions than other public sector employees. Are we now heading down the road of a two tiered system where similarly qualified and experienced staff are forced to accept less favourable conditions for doing the same job, just like the grad nurses. Seems like a recipe for disaster to me.


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    #31
    Poulgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 776 ✭✭✭Poulgorm


    I can't see Irish Water taking on the manual staff from the Local Authorities. Bord Gais had endless problems with the manual staff from Dublin Gas, Cork gas etc. Can't see them repeating the same mistake with Council staff.

    I suspect that the management of the water grid will be outsourced to private companies, with Irish Water making the capital investment decisions and supervising / auditing the private companies that they employ.

    Transfer of staff from LAs will be very limited.

    I suspect that there will be some incentive scheme introduced to encourage LA staff to join the private companies that the work will be outsourced to


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