Beckett Bridge / Macken St

teddansonswig · 04-12-2011 4:58pm #1

Dear Dublin city planners,
Just amazed how in my year of traveling this route the giant illuminated sign to celebrate the opening of the bridge is still on, and yet the traffic lights at macken street and GCD are still bag'd up and unlit.....
how long would we expect for a traffic light?
and how long will the no left turn on to Beckett bridge last?

monument · 05-12-2011 2:46am

teddansonswig wrote: »

Dear Dublin city planners,
Just amazed how in my year of traveling this route the giant illuminated sign to celebrate the opening of the bridge is still on, and yet the traffic lights at macken street and GCD are still bag'd up and unlit.....
how long would we expect for a traffic light?
and how long will the no left turn on to Beckett bridge last?

Have you tried asking Dublin City Council? Details of contacting them: http://www.dublincity.ie/pages/ContactUs.aspx

The turning restrictions are here to stay however:

'No right turn' off Samuel Beckett Bridge, 'No left turn' off North Wall Quay onto Samuel Beckett Bridge

A few of Live Drive's listeners have recently asked why there is "No Right Turn" off Samuel Becket Bridge and "No Left Turn" off North Wall Quay onto Samuel Becket Bridge. We put the question to Dublin City Council.

As part of the Planning Application process for Samuel Beckett Bridge an Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) was required. An Bord Pleanála granted the permission with a number of conditions attached, one of which was the ‘no right turn’ in both directions off the Bridge, and ‘no left turn’ onto the Bridge off North Wall Quay.

Dublin City Council implemented the ‘no right turn’ and ‘no left turn’ in accordance with the conditions imposed with the planning permission granted by An Bord Pleánala. The bridge was intended to facilitate the orbital route traversing the City from North to South and visa-versa. It was never intended that traffic which uses the Eastlink daily, travelling from North to South of the Liffey, would divert onto the Bridge. This would increase the volume of traffic in the South East Inner City and have an adverse effect on residents there considerably.

It should also be noted that during the public consultation phase held at the time, traffic noise and volume levels would have been a factor for consideration for residents living in the vicinity of the Bridge with regard to the EIS.

BrianD · 05-12-2011 7:16pm

Yes, the VMS still proudly proclaims "now open" on the northside one. Think the southside one is broken. They are also badly sited.

DCC seem to be particularly poor at using their VMS to communicate information. The ones that show parking spaces assumes that you know what those numbers actually are, they have no light sensors on them so they are blindingly bright at night and some of the messages are just bizarre. Many are badly sited - one on the Navan Road has a tree in front of it!

Macken st. is badly in need of a resurface, street lighting and proper road markings. It's now a major thoroughfare that also has the demands of the Grand Canal Theatre to contend with.

teddansonswig · 06-12-2011 10:43pm

Thanks for that, very interested in the 'no left/right turn' conditions imposed by DCC. All connected to the EastLink, which i think was due to be free for users eventually right?

Macken street does need alot of work still, but the route is improving. Most of the barricades on Guild St have been removed and you can see grass and the canal again.

must....email.... DCC........

monument · 06-12-2011 11:28pm

teddansonswig wrote: »

Thanks for that, very interested in the 'no left/right turn' conditions imposed by DCC. All connected to the EastLink, which i think was due to be free for users eventually right?

Macken street does need alot of work still, but the route is improving. Most of the barricades on Guild St have been removed and you can see grass and the canal again.

must....email.... DCC........

Conditions were imposed by An Bord Pleanala on council. Not by the council.

Highly unlikely to be changed.

And this is made all the more so by [A] the traffic is already so heavy, [B.] allowing the turns would affect the bus routes along the quays, and [C] the new cycle route flows should work far better with the current setup than with the turns allowed.

BrianD wrote: »

It's now a major thoroughfare that also has the demands of the Grand Canal Theatre to contend with.

At rush hour and other times, it's more like a slow-moving car park.

steve-o · 09-12-2011 11:48am

BrianD wrote: »

Yes, the VMS still proudly proclaims "now open" on the northside one.

I've often thought that one must cause confusion. Some people are bound to interpret that to mean the bridge is currently open to boats and closed to traffic. Why else would there be a big electronic sign announcing it?

teddansonswig · 09-12-2011 4:27pm

monument wrote: »

And this is made all the more so by [A] the traffic is already so heavy, [B.] allowing the turns would affect the bus routes along the quays, and [C] the new cycle route flows should work far better with the current setup than with the turns allowed.

traffic being heavy wouldnt make any difference to turning left from east wall.. theres only one lane through the hydraulic bridge
wouldnt make any difference to the cycle lane, as they have to stop for people turning right on to that bridge
wouldnt make any difference to the bus routes

your mad!
but thanks all the same
???

monument · 11-12-2011 1:41pm

teddansonswig wrote: »

traffic being heavy wouldnt make any difference to turning left from east wall.. theres only one lane through the hydraulic bridge
wouldnt make any difference to the cycle lane, as they have to stop for people turning right on to that bridge
wouldnt make any difference to the bus routes

your mad!
but thanks all the same
???

Not sure where exactly you mean by "turning left from east wall"... what junction are up talking about? Anyway...

For every extra turn there's more disruption to traffic flows. For example, while the many turning restrictions in Dublin are hated my many motorists, these restrictions are in place to try to keep the very same motorists from being at a standstill all the time.

Traffic is already heavily congested around the Samuel Beckett Bridge, allowing the turns would just increase this because:

[1] More turns require an overall longer traffic light sequence: Both the right-hand turn on the SB bridge to North Wall Quay, and the left-hand turn from the same quay to the bridge, would both require extra traffic light phases where something else would not be moving. This slows things down.

[2] Allowing a left turn into the bridge from the quays would feed traffic into the already congested SB bridge and Cardiff Lane.

[3] Allowing northbound right turns from the bridge to North Wall Quay would [A] Hinder traffic going straight northbound or going left because there's only two lanes on the quay, would feed traffic into the congested "one lane through the hydraulic bridge".

[4] Points 1 to 3 above would increase the likelihood of more motorists getting caught in the junction more often which would affect other traffic flows even more.

[5] As with general traffic, the bus routes and cycle route would be affected by the all of the above.

trellheim · 11-12-2011 9:02pm

IMO that bridge has stuffed up traffic in the D2 east D4 NW area. Grand Canal St, and traffic on Shelbourne Rd has increased to huge proportions. Macken st is stuffed southbound (and northbound) a lot of the time at Pearse St junction. Pearse St. Eastbound is silly street at the same place because the narrowness and closeness of the bus lane forces long queues for a very short green.

There are several residents of Macken St, and Grand Canal St who are wondering what the hell happened.

I'd put a 3€ toll on it and at least make some cash out of it.

sdanseo · 19-12-2011 4:48am

The East Link birdge is now owned by the city.

It's nothing but revenue protection for that.

monument · 19-12-2011 10:40am

sdeire wrote: »

The East Link birdge is now owned by the city.

It's nothing but revenue protection for that.

Forget the gridlock and the planning conditions they have no powers to overturn?!

sdanseo · 20-12-2011 7:39pm

monument wrote: »

Forget the gridlock and the planning conditions they have no powers to overturn?!

No, I'm saying that some underhanded tactics are possibly being used to influence the ABP decision, or perhaps that the City council are quite happy not to contest the issue.

If the east link caters for 25,000 cars a day, that's minimum €15.5 million a year to DCC, much of which would be lost if there was a free alternative route so close. It's a point worth making.

Granted it would cause traffic on the bridge to become huge as well but at the very least the no left/right turn should be time restricted. I can see no logical reason why either of those right turns should be disallowed. It would ease traffic on the whole North circular route and allow easy access to the Port Tunnel. Maybe there's a case for having them disallowed at peak times to prevent too many people clogging the bridge (it's already chaos as is, but again this is due to the Sherrif St/North CIrcular lights and lack of general capacity) but at off peak times the ONLY reason that is logical is that of revenue. I/ve lost count of the number of times I've gone into town in the evening or late at night, on the way out or picking people up, and not being able to turn there and ending up on Matt Talbot bridge or paying more money to use the East Link. I don't mind paying €3 for the DPT, it's extremely useful, but having this stupid, in fact moronic hassle at the other end is just a pain in the rear end.

monument · 20-12-2011 8:39pm

Look, whether it's a conspiracy like you say or, far more likely, a real condition ABP viewed as necessary the restrictions are here to stay.

And traffic are already gridlocked around the new bridge and the nearby streets at rush hour.

dubhthach · 20-12-2011 9:35pm

monument wrote: »

Look, whether it's a conspiracy like you say or, far more likely, a real condition ABP viewed as necessary the restrictions are here to stay.

And traffic are already gridlocked around the new bridge and the nearby streets at rush hour.

Even during non-rush hour periods. Whenever going home from town via that direction I now tend to proceed to the East Link as it's quicker then been stuck on Macken Street.

trellheim · 23-12-2011 5:29pm

Correct, strongly think there should be a high toll there, higher than the Eastlink, it's a bridge for convenience only, dumping straight into residential on both sides, its a rat-run. Remember the ferry beforehand cost money.

BrianD · 23-12-2011 6:39pm

sdeire wrote: »

The East Link birdge is now owned by the city.

It's nothing but revenue protection for that.

Having worked in the are before and after the opening of the Beckett Bridge, I am really at a loss as to how the various restrictions help the revenue protection theory.

However, you do raise an interesting question. Is the East Link in public ownership?

sdanseo · 26-12-2011 1:44am

BrianD wrote: »

Having worked in the are before and after the opening of the Beckett Bridge, I am really at a loss as to how the various restrictions help the revenue protection theory.

However, you do raise an interesting question. Is the East Link in public ownership?

It was passed to the city a few years back IIRC, remember reading it somewhere.

As for revenue my revenue protection theory, it really only applies to those of us who use East Wall road to travel from Northside to Southside and vice versa, including anyone coming out of the Tunnel.

Case in point, If I'm coming into town and heading for the south city centre, I generally use the Tunnel when it's any way busy but not a €10 toll - to me the €3 is worth it. But then instead of being able to go down the usually traffic-free North Wall quay and over Beckett to my destination I have to go into the middle of the city or over East Link, or pull a very annoying U-turn on Guild Street. Pain in the bloody arse and I can't understand why that stupid lift bridge can't be removed or enlarged and a proper left turning lane put in.

Same story outbound, if I'm coming from the south city centre to my home in Malahide I would love to be able to use the tunnel without having to go all the way out through Ringsend to get to the East Link, never mind the extra €1.70.

Admittedly it's a fairl irregular occurence that I'd use the tunnel to get into town - once or twice a month maybe - but it's just a pet peeve and I'm sure there are others that are in a similar position re their own journeys. Allowing traffic to filter off onto East Wall Road would also possibly help alleviate traffic over Beckett - it's all held up by the Sheriff St/AMiens St Junction. We need some bloody OVERPASSES in this city

steve-o · 28-12-2011 2:54pm

sdeire wrote: »

It was passed to the city a few years back IIRC, remember reading it somewhere.

The East Link concession is held by DIF Infrastructure (previous owners were NTR) and expires in 4 years.

sdanseo · 29-12-2011 5:16am

steve-o wrote: »

The East Link concession is held by DIF Infrastructure (previous owners were NTR) and expires in 4 years.

Now that's news to me. Wish I could remember where I read the other, sure it was here on Boards - but whoever the author was was adamant.

Mistaken, it seems though, my bad if so.

Wild Bill · 01-01-2012 1:34pm

trellheim wrote: »

Correct, strongly think there should be a high toll there, higher than the Eastlink, it's a bridge for convenience only, dumping straight into residential on both sides, its a rat-run. Remember the ferry beforehand cost money.

I don't remember any ferry

LXFlyer · 01-01-2012 2:44pm

http://www.liffeyferry.com/

dubhthach · 01-01-2012 3:47pm

There was also a ferry that went out of business when East Link opened from what I recall reading, though in it's case it had been in operation for over hundred years.

Wild Bill · 01-01-2012 11:44pm

Ah! I thought ye referred to a car ferry.

I remember that little yoke alright.

BrianD · 03-01-2012 12:46pm

lxflyer wrote: »

http://www.liffeyferry.com/

This was only a small passenger ferry that ran from the MV Killarney mooring directly across to a landing on Sir John Rogersons Quay. No cars. It ceased as soon as the Beckett Bridge opened.

LXFlyer · 03-01-2012 1:56pm

I know that - there was only ever a passenger ferry there (I think Dublin Corporation as was operated one previously).

A poster said he could not remember any ferry - that's why I posted the link.

No one specified a car ferry.

MJohnston · 05-01-2012 6:06pm

Several things annoy me about this whole setup:

- People still turn left onto the bridge even with the restrictions, it's never enforced.
- The Taxi (sorry, I mean bus) lanes on the bridge are far too short and inevitably are just used by taxis who then cut back in at the top of Macken Street causing a blockage of that junction, meaning people coming from Rodgersons Quay west-bound can't go anywhere and generally have to wait through 2 or 3 separate green light phases before they can go anywhere. Actually this is something I see a lot in Dublin, bus lanes that only last about 20 metres used by lots of empty taxis causing lots of un-necessary merging and reducing flow - Blackhall Place is another that springs to mind thanks to its poor design.
- There should be a yellow box on said junction (not that people are particularly good about respecting those)
- On Macken Street at the Pearse Street junction, if you're heading either north or south, both lanes at the junction tell you that you can go straight ahead, however there is immediately only 1 lane after the junction, leading to more traffic causing merges. This could be easily (mostly) fixed by defining only one of the lanes as a straight-ahead lane and the other as a turning lane and slightly adjusting the filter lights to match.
- Macken Street behind the theatre is an absolute mess, the road surface, the lack of markings, the unused traffic lights.
- The area outside of the Maldren should either be reserved for taxis/coaches or nobody should be allowed to stop. Incredibly frequent that several taxis will double park outside it, along with a coach parked on the other side, meaning barely a single lane of traffic in both directions.
- The traffic lights at the north end of the Beckett bridge retain the same phasing during the night as they do during the daytime - even the pedestrian phase when noone is there. This is a minor gripe, but it's an annoying waste of time when you're sat there for 4 minutes waiting.
- Swords Express and other buses frequently stop just before the lights at this junction coming east on N. Wall and block the straight ahead lane. In rush hour, when there's a bus in the right turn filter lane (which has one of those annoying red light filter lanes - if there's nothing coming the other direction, why not just let us go?) then no-one can get past and traffic snarls up.
- They've added a completely pointless massive hump on N Wall Quay at this junction (just after the Beckett Bridge) which I can only assume is there to give bus passengers whiplash.
- The Guild St/Mayor St junction lights favour Mayor St far too much, there's frequently only time for 2 cars to pass through a green on Guild St with it.

Maybe I just pass through this area too frequently, but even when I'm walking these things annoy the hell out of me. Rant over.

LXFlyer · 05-01-2012 8:22pm

MJohnston wrote: »

Several things annoy me about this whole setup:

- People still turn left onto the bridge even with the restrictions, it's never enforced.
- The Taxi (sorry, I mean bus) lanes on the bridge are far too short and inevitably are just used by taxis who then cut back in at the top of Macken Street causing a blockage of that junction, meaning people coming from Rodgersons Quay west-bound can't go anywhere and generally have to wait through 2 or 3 separate green light phases before they can go anywhere. Actually this is something I see a lot in Dublin, bus lanes that only last about 20 metres used by lots of empty taxis causing lots of un-necessary merging and reducing flow - Blackhall Place is another that springs to mind thanks to its poor design.
- There should be a yellow box on said junction (not that people are particularly good about respecting those)
- On Macken Street at the Pearse Street junction, if you're heading either north or south, both lanes at the junction tell you that you can go straight ahead, however there is immediately only 1 lane after the junction, leading to more traffic causing merges. This could be easily (mostly) fixed by defining only one of the lanes as a straight-ahead lane and the other as a turning lane and slightly adjusting the filter lights to match.
- Macken Street behind the theatre is an absolute mess, the road surface, the lack of markings, the unused traffic lights.
- The area outside of the Maldren should either be reserved for taxis/coaches or nobody should be allowed to stop. Incredibly frequent that several taxis will double park outside it, along with a coach parked on the other side, meaning barely a single lane of traffic in both directions.
- The traffic lights at the north end of the Beckett bridge retain the same phasing during the night as they do during the daytime - even the pedestrian phase when noone is there. This is a minor gripe, but it's an annoying waste of time when you're sat there for 4 minutes waiting.
- Swords Express and other buses frequently stop just before the lights at this junction coming east on N. Wall and block the straight ahead lane. In rush hour, when there's a bus in the right turn filter lane (which has one of those annoying red light filter lanes - if there's nothing coming the other direction, why not just let us go?) then no-one can get past and traffic snarls up.
- They've added a completely pointless massive hump on N Wall Quay at this junction (just after the Beckett Bridge) which I can only assume is there to give bus passengers whiplash.
- The Guild St/Mayor St junction lights favour Mayor St far too much, there's frequently only time for 2 cars to pass through a green on Guild St with it.

Maybe I just pass through this area too frequently, but even when I'm walking these things annoy the hell out of me. Rant over.

Have you got in touch with DCC road engineers to express these thoughts?

MJohnston · 06-01-2012 11:39am

lxflyer wrote: »

Have you got in touch with DCC road engineers to express these thoughts?

Nope, how would one go about this and have you any experience of it having any effect (as opposed to getting a standard auto response back)?

Wild Bill · 06-01-2012 12:03pm

MJohnston wrote: »

Nope, how would one go about this and have you any experience of it having any effect (as opposed to getting a standard auto response back)?

Always worth a try.

Sometimes they listen - it's rumoured they are human too

MJohnston · 06-01-2012 12:49pm

I would expect that they are, but I also expect that they have particular reasons for doing all of the above as some of them are fairly obvious flaws. Actually, on the first point I made, when I walked past this morning, there was a cop car sitting up on the pavement on the corner of the bridge. I was thinking it was there to do some enforcement of the 'no left turn' rule but then someone in a Jag turned left onto the bridge while the cop was sitting there. Clearly an unenforceable rule.

LXFlyer · 06-01-2012 6:08pm

My experience of dealing with people in these agencies is that if you approach them in a constructive and professional manner, then they will respond in kind.

However if you have a rant, it will (in all likelihood) be ignored.

Compose a letter/email and send it to Michael Philips - he's Director of Traffic and City Engineer.

What have you to lose?

Beckett Bridge / Macken St

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