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A Wise Man's Fear

2

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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Missed "The Name of the Wind" so got to read that and "A Wise Man's Fear" back to back there. Very enjoyable. Now onto Tigiana for something that's tied up in a single book.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,402 ✭✭✭✭Trojan


    On re-reading, I've downgraded my internal review from 7/10 to 5/10. Initially I thought it was better, I think, because I was looking forward to it so much after NotW. But it is a flawed book particularly in light of how impressive the first book was, and how much meta-thought Rothfuss has put into the art of storytelling.

    The specific criticisms I'd have are the lack of story arc, the lack of forward progress, the Mary Sue issue with Kvothe, the opposite with a thoroughly annoying Denna and the Kote character, and just an all around malaise.

    Good enough to keep the trilogy going, and I'll still be pre-ordering the 3rd book.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 9,698 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    Trojan wrote: »
    ...... the Mary Sue issue with Kvothe, ......

    Good enough to keep the trilogy going, and I'll still be pre-ordering the 3rd book.
    After googling that bit of literary knowledge I would agree. Apart from his short temper he has no flaws it seems, and an uncanny bit of luck throughout. It has gotten a bit bland,
    "I tried it out and guess what I was great at it, which was nice"

    (Speaking of wish fulfilment, being kidnapped by a nympho faerie who decides to teach you loveplay after taking your virginity!!!!........that is out there)

    Personally I love the meta-story, that we are being told the story by someone who knows the ending. In most fantasy the action/drama unfolds with the reader. Kote is a sad character who is the shell of a legendary person.

    Obviously we are waiting to hear how Kvothe became Kote, how the 'Kingkiller' name came about, how he befriended Bast, how he delay with Ambrose, what happened with Denna, etc (Isn't Ambrose in the line of succession for Vintas?)


    1st book blew me away, 2nd filled a gap but left me a bit let down. Lets hope 3 delivers. (And wraps it all up, after Jordan and GRRM I have no patience for procrastinating authors)


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,402 ✭✭✭✭Trojan


    What annoyed me most is that I was trying to figure out what it was reminding me of, and I finally realised: "Lost". I loved the first season, puzzled through the second, was irritated by the third and gave up by the fourth: the writers didn't even pretend to make an effort to tie the plot together (I read reviews of the finale to see what happened - BS finish, as expected).

    I think (hope) Rothfuss won't be quite that bad, but it's hard to see how it'll be finished in one more book and many people, including on here, reckon that it's a 6-parter, not a trilogy.

    It's quite interesting, on a meta level, to look at this series, GRRM and WOT and see how they are going to be closed off. Sanderson is doing a superb job, but we know he can't get 100% coverage on closing out the hundreds of separate plot threads. GRRM is just having fun, not sure I can blame him, but could be a long time before that series is finished.

    And speaking about a long time waiting for a book, Scott Lynch has had a lot of personal problems, but we're now onto at least the 10th official release date, if not more, for TROT. Looking forward to it, but rather the author and publishers were more honest about actual release dates.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    I'd agree the book is flawed in some ways, my thing is though that I feel one needs to suspend one's critical mind when reading fantasy similar to how you have to do it when watching an action film and so on.


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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,978 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    GRRM has described himself as a gardener, in terms of writing. He plants some ideas and tends to him but isn't too sure how it's going to grow. He has an idea of the ending but not in between - and that's obvious now with the increase in the series length and that it appears to be getting bogged down.
    The Wheel of Time was also not clearly plotted in advance and it too suffered expansion.
    Let's hope this is not the case here too, although I also fear that Koth will suddenly go: "I know I said I'd be telling you the tail in three days but seems like we've got a bit of time. Reckon we'll make it a week!"

    On the other hand - credit to Erikson who said the Malazan Book of the Fallen would be 10 books and stuck to it, despite the insane epicness of it all.
    Trojan wrote: »
    And speaking about a long time waiting for a book, Scott Lynch has had a lot of personal problems, but we're now onto at least the 10th official release date, if not more, for TROT. Looking forward to it, but rather the author and publishers were more honest about actual release dates.
    To be fair to Lynch, from reading his blog I don't think he's ever promised a date. That's his publishers.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 9,698 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    Trojan wrote: »
    .....Scott Lynch has had a lot of personal problems, but we're now onto at least the 10th official release date, if not more, for TROT. Looking forward to it, but rather the author and publishers were more honest about actual release dates.
    Dammit!! I had forgotten I was waiting on that series too!!!

    Although I will also be fair to him, at least he has warned us in advance that it will be a 7 part series. He even has titles so that must mean he has a bit more groundwork down that GRRM or Jordan. (Wasn't WoT originally planned as a trilogy?)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭Coriolanus


    nesf wrote: »
    I'd agree the book is flawed in some ways, my thing is though that I feel one needs to suspend one's critical mind when reading fantasy similar to how you have to do it when watching an action film and so on.
    And yet scifi is almost the exact opposite. I read a lot of fantasy in my teens and early twenties. These days though, I find sci fi a lot better, other than a select few fantasy authors.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Nevore wrote: »
    And yet scifi is almost the exact opposite. I read a lot of fantasy in my teens and early twenties. These days though, I find sci fi a lot better, other than a select few fantasy authors.

    Most sci-fi isn't that great either. Most literary fiction isn't to be blunt about it! And that has a higher standard than either fantasy or sci fi generally. You get the odd exceptional author in all genres but by and large critically reading popular works is going to leave you disappointed.


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 8,490 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fluorescence


    The difference between Rothfuss and, say, GRRM though is that Rothfuss had all 3 books fully written before Name of the Wind was published. The story has been written and it's complete. However, when he edited the first book, he added in a lot of extra stuff, which he has to continue with in book 2 and 3 which makes for an arduous editing process.

    Whereas with Martin, he has an idea of where everything's going but no concrete plans or mapped out plotlines to work from.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,320 ✭✭✭Teferi


    Pat Rothfuss is doing an Ask Me Anything (basically a Q+A) over on reddit at the moment. Check it out here.


    He hasn't answered anything as of yet, so you can still ask questions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭Coriolanus


    Awesome.
    Do you have any plans to write more fairy porn?
    Also, what are the closest real life equivalents of 'thousand hands'? How about 'twisted lotus flower'?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,525 ✭✭✭✭OwaynOTT


    ixoy wrote: »
    GRRM has described himself as a gardener, in terms of writing. He plants some ideas and tends to him but isn't too sure how it's going to grow. He has an idea of the ending but not in between - and that's obvious now with the increase in the series length and that it appears to be getting bogged down.
    The Wheel of Time was also not clearly plotted in advance and it too suffered expansion.
    Let's hope this is not the case here too, although I also fear that Koth will suddenly go: "I know I said I'd be telling you the tail in three days but seems like we've got a bit of time. Reckon we'll make it a week!"

    On the other hand - credit to Erikson who said the Malazan Book of the Fallen would be 10 books and stuck to it, despite the insane epicness of it all.


    To be fair to Lynch, from reading his blog I don't think he's ever promised a date. That's his publishers.

    Ah now Erikson is doing two further trilogies, isn't he? And what about Esselmont books, which will very soon stand at 4. I think I read somewhere that they planned on having 20 books.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,920 ✭✭✭AnCapaillMor


    Just finished this on audio book(so forgive the possible misspellings) and f*** me it was good. Love the way it's written from his point of view with the odd interludes. I like the level of detail on his life(not jordans 2 pages of describing what rand wore) but his day to day going ons.

    Preffered it to the 1st as he got out into the world, the ambrose rivallry was getting tiresome.
    Is the maers wife kvote's aunt, can't remember where hs mother came from but the maer's wife has a hatred for ruh stemming from her eldest sister running off with the ruh.

    Denna is the only thing that really pissed me off to no end, fer fecksake ask her out or tell him to politely piss off. It'll get interesting with her backer, definately seems to be one of the chandrian, especially after they seemed to be involved with the bandits.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,880 ✭✭✭stesaurus


    Is the maers wife kvote's aunt, can't remember where hs mother came from but the maer's wife has a hatred for ruh stemming from her eldest sister running off with the ruh.

    Yeah it really has to be.
    There's also the song his dad sang that upset his mother and she wouldn't let him sing it. Called her 'Tally' short for Netalia Lockless
    Denna is the only thing that really pissed me off to no end, fer fecksake ask her out or tell him to politely piss off. It'll get interesting with her backer, definately seems to be one of the chandrian, especially after they seemed to be involved with the bandits.

    Her backer could be
    Bredon, he goes missing a lot and has a walking stick, white hair, can dance etc. Maybe he's one of the Amyr

    Love the 1st 2 and can't wait for the final in the trilogy. You really have to wonder just how much of a fúckup Kvothe is going to cause to end up a shadow of the man he was as Kote.
    Maybe he
    causes Denna's death?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,920 ✭✭✭AnCapaillMor


    s.welstead wrote: »
    Yeah it really has to be.
    There's also the song his dad sang that upset his mother and she wouldn't let him sing it. Called her 'Tally' short for Netalia Lockless

    Going over it in my head again and it definately is
    when he first saw her, he thought she looked familar, so obviously she looks like her sister\his mother

    Denna
    i think is the on the opposite of the coin Kvothe's on, i think the amir did something to her, there's stories about them willing to do anything for justice. Listening again to the first book, when the amir formed they spoke of stopping things before the happened, you could throw the the Cthaeh into mix. Denna is willing to do anything to get her goal, so she puts up with the beatings. I loved that part in the book when kvothe was going to confront her about the beatings and she asked casually about the scars on his back. Both are being manipulated somehow by either side.

    Bredon's actually a good point i just remembered the rumours of him and pagan rituals


    Yeah will be interesting to see how it goes
    but i don't think he'll cause her death, he'll find out that he's being manipulated and go into hiding to avoid this or he visits the cthaeh again


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 235 ✭✭Tym


    I think he'll do a Robbin Hobb and have another three books detailing his life after he tells the story. Oh, btw in the first book, in an ungaurded moment, the chronichler mentions that Kvothe actually looks 21, but mostly looks older.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,920 ✭✭✭AnCapaillMor


    Heh!!, i actually started hobb last night. Dunno where i'm getting it from but i think kvothe's 27. Listening to both books a second time, picking up alot of things that one would find on re-read.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,920 ✭✭✭AnCapaillMor


    If the books\story are driving you mad like they are me, here's a good place to discuss and check out some theories and stuff you might've missed out on.

    http://www.reddit.com/r/KingkillerChronicle/


  • Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭redpanda26


    I read both books not to long ago and enjoyed them both, but im having a memory lapse at the moment, who is bredon again?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,920 ✭✭✭AnCapaillMor


    The dude who used to call over and play tac with in severin.


  • Registered Users Posts: 526 ✭✭✭Corcaigh84


    Might be a bit OT but I'm looking for a reason to read books 2&3 of this series. My sister raved about Name of the Wind (she's not a big fantasy reader) so I read it to check it out.

    It seemed to me like one of the most clichéd, predictable and boring fantasy novels I'd ever come across. Has anyone else been disappointed with the first but kept reading?


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,978 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    thefloss wrote: »
    Might be a bit OT but I'm looking for a reason to read books 2&3 of this series. My sister raved about Name of the Wind (she's not a big fantasy reader) so I read it to check it out.

    It seemed to me like one of the most clichéd, predictable and boring fantasy novels I'd ever come across. Has anyone else been disappointed with the first but kept reading?
    I'm surprised you thought that - I wouldn't have called it clichéd and thought it was a very good character piece with particularly strong writing. The plot itself is not highly original but the execution is top notch and that's coming from someone who reads far too much of the genre and would count myself as a big fantasy reader.

    If you therefore didn't like it then there's no point in reading book 2 and absolutely no point in reading book 3 (who knows when it'll be published).


  • Registered Users Posts: 526 ✭✭✭Corcaigh84


    ixoy wrote: »
    I'm surprised you thought that - I wouldn't have called it clichéd and thought it was a very good character piece with particularly strong writing. The plot itself is not highly original but the execution is top notch and that's coming from someone who reads far too much of the genre and would count myself as a big fantasy reader.

    If you therefore didn't like it then there's no point in reading book 2 and absolutely no point in reading book 3 (who knows when it'll be published).

    Thanks, maybe clichéd is a bit strong but as soon as it started with the 'young boy discovers his super powers' I just thought here we go again :)

    I'm very bad at articulating exactly what I don't like about a book/film, but I'd have to disagree about the strong writing part... character piece it may be, but the way he went on and on about the love interest in Book 1 made me feel like I was reading a teenage romance novel.

    I guess I just prefer the style of someone like GRRM - more realistic romance hahah


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,730 ✭✭✭sxt


    thefloss wrote: »
    Thanks, maybe clichéd is a bit strong but as soon as it started with the 'young boy discovers his super powers' I just thought here we go again :)

    I'm very bad at articulating exactly what I don't like about a book/film, but I'd have to disagree about the strong writing part... character piece it may be, but the way he went on and on about the love interest in Book 1 made me feel like I was reading a teenage romance novel.

    I guess I just prefer the style of someone like GRRM - more realistic romance hahah

    I agree with you thefloss , It was like it was written by someone trying to relive his college days in a fantasy format . Very cliched and predictable like you said with one dimensional characters .


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,326 ✭✭✭Zapp Brannigan


    The only real problem I have with Rothfuss is his use of the unreliable narrator. His style, I find intriguing though. I honestly can say he probably is one of the best fantasy writers knocking around right now (all in my opinion of course)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,920 ✭✭✭AnCapaillMor


    The only real problem I have with Rothfuss is his use of the unreliable narrator. His style, I find intriguing though. I honestly can say he probably is one of the best fantasy writers knocking around right now (all in my opinion of course)

    Yeah i agree on kvothe telling the story, it wil be interesting to see where he goes with it, it could be a total u-turn in that he's not all he's made himself up to be, or characters might not be as bad or as good as he makes them to be; ambrose could be a saint. Using the hero as the narrator has it plusses though, we're picking up on things that he misses.

    what i love is the hints he leaves and alot of stuff can have double or even triple meanings, the lackless poem for instance.


    Agree on the romance, on the first read, but the more you read, and read between the lines it's great. On first read i really disliked the romance and it's main protagonist but on subsequent reads, she's possibly one of the best female characters i've seen in a fantasy book.

    Pity he's so bloody slow, he told goodreads to take down the 2013 release date, anyone who thought it would be out then is crazy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,402 ✭✭✭✭Trojan




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,326 ✭✭✭Zapp Brannigan


    Fox have an option, that's all. It might never happen, and tbh if it does I don't have high hopes for it.

    Now if HBO had gotten it...


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,246 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    And sadly book three is pushed to 2014 :(


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