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Denver Broncos Thread

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭davyjose


    This argument is done.

    Tebow's an NFL QB.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,299 ✭✭✭spiralism


    66 percent passing, 202 yards, 2 TDs, 149.3 QBR and another win with the defence giving up 32 points...pick holes in that one!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,658 ✭✭✭✭Peyton Manning


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Bring on Tebow. I'm ready for the lulz.

    Hows that going for you?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭davyjose


    spiralism wrote: »
    66 percent passing, 202 yards, 2 TDs, 149.3 QBR and another win with the defence giving up 32 points...pick holes in that one!

    What impresses me is how he hardly ran the ball, and still played a masterclass. Made big plays all night. His QB rating was 149 tonight.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    davyjose wrote: »
    This argument is done.

    Tebow's an NFL QB.


    He's really not though.


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,149 Mod ✭✭✭✭bruschi


    only saw the end of the game and a couple of highlights as it progressed. credit where its due, the one thing he does is not throw picks. the fumble was unlucky. but to get the ball back was again down to defence and luck. but it all counts. good to hear there was more passing involved anyway


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭Le King


    452457071929141623517416.gif


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭davyjose


    He's really not though.

    Your view of an NFL QB is far too rigid then. Tebow is succeeding, like it or not. I guarantee the Bills, chiefs, Bears and Pats are looking at this guy and wondering how to beat him.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    davyjose wrote: »
    Your view of an NFL QB is far too rigid then. Tebow is succeeding, like it or not. I guarantee the Bills, chiefs, Bears and Pats are looking at this guy and wondering how to beat him.


    No, you're right actually. Tebow is an NFL quarterback(like Curtis Painter), just not a very good one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,445 ✭✭✭frostie500


    davyjose wrote: »
    Your view of an NFL QB is far too rigid then. Tebow is succeeding, like it or not. I guarantee the Bills, chiefs, Bears and Pats are looking at this guy and wondering how to beat him.

    Yeah. He's not turning over the ball and the team are getting results. His success has obviously been helped by the run game and a great defence (today notwithstanding) but he's made plays when he has had to and most importantly hasnt made costly mistakes.
    For years we've been told "the team that wins the turnover battle wins the game" and with Tebow not making silly mistakes the Broncos have done well. Again long term he needs to improve his passing but he's doing very well here and now


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,249 ✭✭✭Stev_o


    He's winning and he's in no position of losing his job from what we'v seen. He's a marmite player who either love him or hate him. I just feel that while he is of course playing exceptionally well he's also just one cog in a very effective machine that is delivering on all fronts.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,929 ✭✭✭raven136


    Stev_o wrote: »
    He's winning and he's in no position of losing his job from what we'v seen. He's a marmite player who either love him or hate him. I just feel that while he is of course playing exceptionally well he's also just one cog in a very effective machine that is delivering on all fronts.

    But that effective machine as you say.....was it not on a 5 game losing streak when he was not the qb?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,966 ✭✭✭Syferus


    raven136 wrote: »
    But that effective machine as you say.....was it not on a 5 game losing streak when he was not the qb?

    He's obviously given the Broncos a renewed verve, excitement, whatever you want to label it. Not only do they obviously like the guy, by being the centre of attention it means the other players don't have to worry as much about getting flak from fans and the media, which would only make them like him more. Together they've turned a lost season into a potential play-off berth.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    Haven't seen him play a full game in the NFL, has he shown signs of threatening with a deep pass at all?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48,892 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    Neil3030 wrote: »
    Haven't seen him play a full game in the NFL, has he shown signs of threatening with a deep pass at all?

    hit a couple of lovely deep(ish) passes today imo.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,067 ✭✭✭tallaghtoutlaws


    hit a couple of lovely deep(ish) passes today imo.

    He had 4 deep passes today. 3 of which were to wide open Receivers and 1 was thrown 10 yards to Thomas who did the rest but was also wide open but props to Tebow for avoiding blocks and making the pass.

    21 yards and a TD
    89510169.jpg

    42 yards
    24874509.jpg

    41 yards
    69923625.jpg

    104 yards in those 3 passes. Over the last few weeks Defenses have been committing so much to stopping Tebow on the ground they are leaving guys wide open.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭Le King


    hit a couple of lovely deep(ish) passes today imo.

    He had 4 deep passes today. 3 of which were to wide open Receivers and 1 was thrown 10 yards to Thomas who did the rest but was also wide open but props to Tebow for avoiding blocks and making the pass.

    21 yards and a TD
    89510169.jpg

    42 yards
    24874509.jpg

    41 yards
    69923625.jpg

    104 yards in those 3 passes. Over the last few weeks Defenses have been committing so much to stopping Tebow on the ground they are leaving guys wide open.

    Yeah, exactly which is a great exploit to his game.

    #Winning


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    I think it was simply blown coverage with the cornerbacks expecting safety help over the top.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,249 ✭✭✭Stev_o


    raven136 wrote: »
    But that effective machine as you say.....was it not on a 5 game losing streak when he was not the qb?

    Tebow isn't making a game winning interception nor is he the RB who's having 100 yard games or making important sacks. Tebow is contributing his worth to the team but I don't buy into the fact that every is playing better because of his, they are playing better because of each other.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,067 ✭✭✭tallaghtoutlaws


    Le King wrote: »
    Yeah, exactly which is a great exploit to his game.

    #Winning

    To his game? Ah here now you are suggesting its all him. Its a great exploit to Denver's Offense that they molded for him. But they all have to put in their days work for it to work. Saying it is all him is naive and stupid at best. A Zone read offense has the ability to make a defense read run and get stung with a pass. But they are blown coverages no matter what way you swing it.

    Denver's system is working right now and fair play to Denver and Tebow and that defense and offense for making it work. But to say its all Tebow is ridiculous. The system is working.

    As for his passing I could post up screenshots of all his long passes this season that were caught in wide open space to show the system working and Tebow making easy deep passes where any QB could make. But yet Tebow fans everywhere are creaming over it saying his passing is fixed. But he struggles to find passes to guys in coverage or 1 on 1 with DBs and yet that is ignored as they think he is fixed.

    Congrats to Denver for making it work but to suggest its all because of Tebow is stupid and an insult to the players around Tebow.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,150 ✭✭✭Morrisseeee


    Ah here now you are suggesting its all him
    To be fair I don't think he is, or I hope he isn't.
    As a Broncos & Tebow fan I admit it's one big team performance that has us at the position we are in, but as I've stated many times, it's because of Tebow that the show got back on the road.
    But yet Tebow fans everywhere are creaming over it saying his passing is fixed
    No, I for one am certainly not creaming it over his passing, it's still not any where near where he/we would like it to be, but........it certainly is getting there, albeit slowly.

    We should go on and win the division now, which is unbelieveable considering where we were, 1-4, it's a reverse of what happened a few years ago, we started 6-0, then totally fell apart.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭Le King


    Ugh, focusing in on one word. Yeah its been a great turnaround from Denver.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    Le King wrote: »
    Yeah, exactly which is a great exploit to his game.

    #Winning

    I was actually thinking more from the other angle. Ie, unless he starts showing consistency with his deep passing ( esp into coverage), defenses will soon figure out how to beat him.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    Last two weeks of TMQ make for some amusing tongue-in-cheek reading on Tebow, for anyone who hasn't seen it yet.

    After the San Diego game:
    Everybody be at the pep rally after school -- senior Tim Tebow is leading Denver Broncos High School to state! Yeah!

    Denver is, improbably, the NFL's hottest team outside Wisconsin, 5-1 since Tebow took the reins. Those fans in the bleachers who'd been chanting for Tebow -- they were right. But then in high school, the booster club always knows. Maybe for the next home game, the Broncos should run out through a big sheet of paper that was decorated at the pep rally with "Go Broncos" and "XXOO" written all over by the cheerleaders.

    The Broncos are tearing up the NFL using high school tactics. A week ago, defeating the Jets, Denver was running the option while Jersey/B was quick-snapping for hitch screens. It was high school versus college from a tactics standpoint: High school won on a crazed quarterback scramble by Tebow for a 20-yard touchdown. Denver had 229 total yards of offense and 11 first downs -- a prep-game stat. Yet the Broncos prevailed.

    Sunday at San Diego, adjusting for sacks and scrambles, Denver coaches called 19 rushing plays for Tebow and 19 passing plays for him. Tebow threw a perfect stop-and-go touchdown to Eric Decker. The stop-and-go and out-and-up are staples of high school football; inexperienced defensive backs who are assuming a run play reliably fall for these. Denver set the play up with the prep formula of run-run-run then throw deep.

    The zone-read option Denver used for much of the game against the Chargers was straight out of "Friday Night Lights," or at least, what's been trendy under Friday night lights in recent seasons. Repeatedly, Tebow held the ball in front of the tailback and read the unblocked defensive lineman: That's the "read" part of a zone-read rush. If the lineman moved toward the tailback, Tebow kept the ball, often executing the old-fashioned "midline option" on which the tailback leads into the hole and the quarterback follows. On Denver's final drive in overtime, Broncos High School ran the zone-read option run on three consecutive snaps, resulting in 40 yards gained and field position for the winning field goal.

    Tebow even used the high school tactic of running out. In a prep offense, after the quarterback hands off, he sprints in the opposite direction, hoping a defender will follow him. This tactic hasn't been observed in the pros since the 1950s. Having the quarterback run out after handing off is seen as beneath the dignity of NFL quarterbacks, who always simply stand and watch after giving the ball to a runner. This has a practical value -- by NFL rules if a quarterback is not "attempting to participate in the action of the down," he cannot be hit.

    At San Diego, Tebow enthusiastically ran out the other way each time he handed off, just as a high school quarterback would. The Bolts were so rattled that by the second half, a man was going with Tebow when he ran out empty-handed. Late in the third quarter, Denver faced third-and-5. Tebow was flushed from the pocket and rolled left. San Diego linebacker Travis LaBoy slammed to a stop at the line of scrimmage and didn't pursue Tebow, so worried was he about losing contain. Tebow threw for a first down, and Broncos High School recorded a field goal on the possession. The cheerleaders should have done push-ups!

    It's not that high school-flavored offenses have never been employed in the contemporary NFL. Five years ago, Carolina defeated the Falcons by rushing 52 times and attempting seven passes, a stat any prep coach would feel comfortable with. The game occurred on Christmas Eve, and so had no impact on football consciousness. But it showed that when presented as a surprise tactic, high school offense can work in the pass-wacky NFL.

    Denver's victory over San Diego was aided by spectacular play from Von Miller -- see below. Tebow continues to be Tebow: He does things that make purists wince, but when the double whistle sounds, his team has more points than the other team. And the Broncos were aided by yet another example of passive decision-making by San Diego's Norv Turner, who is the George McClellan of the NFL. With 42 seconds showing in regulation, San Diego had the ball on its 30, holding a timeout. Turner decided to exhaust the clock and proceed to overtime -- when all the Bolts needed was a field goal! Not one chance in a million Bill Belichick or Sean Payton makes that call. It's a sign of how far out of touch Turner is that he told the San Diego Union-Tribune of the docile decision, "I think we did the right thing."

    Fun Tebow note: reader Derek Knowlton of Layton, Utah, points out that owing to the run-oriented game plans of Broncos High School, Tebow does not have enough pass attempts to appear in the NFL's quarterback rankings. If Tebow were ranked, "His current NFL passer rating of 80.5 is better than Joe Flacco, Michael Vick and Matt Cassel. His average of one touchdown per 17.9 passes is better than Tony Romo, Ben Roethlisberger and Jay Cutler. His one interception in 143 attempts is the lowest interception rate in the NFL, lower even than Aaron Rodgers."

    Now that defensive coordinators have film of Tebow running the offense seen on Friday nights, its effectiveness is likely to decline. But until then -- hey kids, don't miss the next Broncos High School game! Buy some baked goods to support the drum line! Vote for our team to be featured on local access cable! See you at the car-hop drive-in afterward!

    Followed up this week with:
    In other football news, Denver Broncos High School won its fifth straight, using prep-flavored offensive tactics. Adjusting for sacks and scrambles, Broncos coaches called 19 passes and 30 rushes. Minnesota coaches called 53 passes and 29 rushes. The high school approach prevailed.

    In high school football it's run-run-run then play-fake and throw deep. So it was for Denver at Minnesota. Tim Tebow's third quarter touchdown pass came on a play-fake during a drive of mostly runs. His next touchdown pass came when he play-faked the zone-read option run, then spun out and threw.

    Obviously, Tebow is not a polished passer like Rodgers or Brees. But sportsyak is selling his passing short. Tebow has thrown just one interception, and would lead the league in lowest interception percentage -- if the league would allow him into its stats club. See more below.

    In his seven weeks of starting, Tebow has committed just three turnovers. Eagles quarterbacks Michael Vick and Vince Young have 13 turnovers in the same period; Ryan Fitzpatrick has 12 turnovers in same period. Everybody's talking about Tebow's runs. That Tebow is not turning the ball over may be the key fact about him.

    Right now Tebow's wacky style of play and his personality are the cat's meow of professional football. Let's hope he bears in mind how fickle public opinion is. If Tebow has a couple of bad games and the Broncos stumble, the crowd could turn against him. As the song says, "They will never forget you/ Till somebody else comes along."

    LINK


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,173 ✭✭✭✭kmart6


    Anyone looking for some Christmas lights....

    tebowingxmas.jpg?w=204


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,658 ✭✭✭✭Peyton Manning


    This is a really great article from the ever brilliant Grantland. Worth the read, it's more a comment on Tebow-mania in society rather on the the field, but a very, very good read.
    The People Who Hate Tim Tebow
    On the most (curious, complicated, downright strange) polarizing athlete of our age.

    By Chuck Klosterman, POSTED DECEMBER 6, 2011

    nfl_g_tebow_gb1_576.jpg

    If you've lost interest in thinking about Tim Tebow, don't read the rest of this article. It will only make you crazy.

    I've just watched the Denver Broncos defeat the Minnesota Vikings, 35-32. Tebow was awful in the first half, passing for just 13 yards. He was quite good in the second half, finishing 10-of-15 for the game and completing three passes of more than 20 yards, a minor achievement he hadn't accomplished all year. The Broncos won by intercepting a pass in the final minute and kicking an easy field goal, so it would be misleading and reactionary and inaccurate to say that Tebow won them the game. But Tebow won them the game.

    When the score was deadlocked at 32 and the Broncos were kicking off with 1:33 remaining, FOX idiotically broke away from the tie in Minneapolis to show us the opening kickoff of the Giants-Packers game. Since I couldn't see what was transpiring in Minnesota, I just had to sit in my chair and wonder what would happen next. Did I believe Denver would win? I shouldn't have. Minnesota was getting the ball with multiple timeouts. It'd been the better team for most of the afternoon. Chris Ponder had outplayed Tebow, and the best athlete on the field was Percy Harvin. The worst-case scenario for the Vikings should have been heading into overtime with a home-field advantage. Yet I believed Denver would win.

    My reasoning?

    I had no reasoning. And I did not like how that felt, even though I'm trying to convince myself that it felt good.

    Imagine that you're a detective, assigned to investigate a murder in a community of 1,000 people. There's no established motive for this crime, and no one saw it happen. By the time you arrive, the body has already been cremated. There are no clues. There is no forensic evidence. You can't find anything that sheds any light whatsoever on who committed this murder. But because there are only 1,000 people in town, you have the opportunity to interview everyone who lives there. And that process generates a bizarre consensus: Almost 800 of the 1,000 citizens believe the murderer is a local man named Timothy.

    Over and over again, you hear different versions of the same sentiment: "Timothy did it." No one saw him do it, and no one can provide a framework for how he might have been successful. But 784 people are certain it was Timothy. A few interviewees provide sophisticated, nuanced theories as to why they're so convinced of his guilt. Others simply say, "I can just tell it was him. I know it." Most testimonies fall somewhere in between those extremes, but no one has any tangible proof. You knock on Timothy's door and ask if you can talk to him about the crime. He agrees. He does not seem nervous or distraught. You ask what he was doing the evening of the murder. He says, "I was reading a book and watching a movie." He shows you the book. You check the TV listings from the night of the murder, and the film he referenced had aired on television. You say, "Many people in this town think you are responsible for the killing." Timothy says, "I have no idea why they would think that." You ask if he knew the man who died. "Yes," he replies. "I know everyone in town." You ask if he disliked the victim. "I didn't like him or dislike him," he says. "I knew him. That was the extent of our relationship."

    After six months of investigating, you return to your home office. Your supervisor asks what you unearthed. "Nothing," you say. "I have no evidence of anything. I did not find a single clue." The supervisor is flummoxed. He asks, "Well, do you have any leads?" You say, "Sort of. For reasons I cannot comprehend, 784 of the citizens believe the killer is a man named Timothy. But that's all they have — their belief that Timothy is guilty."

    "That seems meaningful," says your supervisor. "In the face of no evidence, the fact that 78.4 percent of the town strongly believes something seems like our best case. We can't arrest him, but we can't ignore that level of accord. It's beyond a coincidence. Let's keep the case open. I feel like we should continue investigating this Timothy fellow, even if our only reason for suspicion is the suspicion of other people."

    Do you agree with your supervisor's argument?

    A survey by the Pew Forum on religious and public life suggests the 78.4 percent of Americans identify themselves as Christians.

    I'm not interested in forwarding a pro-Tebow or anti-Tebow argument. I have my own feelings, but I don't think they're particularly relevant. What I'm interested in is why he's so fascinating to other people. I've spent the past two months traveling around the country, and Tebow was the only person I was asked about in every single city. I even had one debate over whether or not the degree to which Tebow is socially polarizing has been overrated by the media, a debate whose very existence seems to provide its own answer. I feel compelled to write about him, even while recognizing that too much has been written already.

    The nature of sports lends itself to the polarization of celebrity athletes. But this case is unlike any other I can remember. In 1996, when Denver Nuggets guard Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf refused to face the flag during the national anthem, it was easy to understand why certain people were outraged (and why others saw that outrage as hypocritical). It was predictably polarizing. There are certain (crazy) things about human nature that everyone accepts, and Abdul-Rauf's controversy fit into that understanding. But this "Tebow Thing" is different. On one pole, you have people who hate him because he's too much of an in-your-face good person, which makes very little sense; at the other pole, you have people who love him because he succeeds at his job while being uniquely unskilled at its traditional requirements, which seems almost as weird. Equally bizarre is the way both groups perceive themselves as the oppressed minority who are fighting against dominant public opinion, although I suppose that has become the way most Americans go through life.

    Obviously, religion plays a role in this (we live in a Christian nation, Tebow is a Christian warrior, non-Christians see themselves as ostracized, and Christians see themselves as eternally persecuted). But the real reason this "Tebow Thing" feels new is because it's a God issue that transcends God, assuming it's possible for any issue to transcend what's already transcendent. I'm starting to think it has something to do with the natural human discomfort with faith — and not just faith in Christ, but faith in anything that might (eventually) make us look ridiculous.

    Just because a bunch of people believe something does not make it true. This is obvious, even to a child. People once thought the earth was flat.1 But here's a more complex scenario: If you were living in Greece during the sixth century, and there was no way to deduce what the true shape of the earth was, and there was no way to validate or contradict the preexisting, relatively universal belief that the world was shaped like a flat disc … wouldn't disagreeing with that theory be less reasonable than accepting it? And if so, wouldn't that mean the only sixth-century people who were ultimately correct about world geography were unreasonable and insane?

    Trust the insane!

    Tebow is a faithful person. He's full of faith — filled to the top and oozing over the side. It's central to every part of him. When someone suggested that he mentions God too frequently (and that this repetition is what annoys his critics), Tebow said, "If you're married, and you have a wife, and you really love your wife, is it good enough to only tell your wife that you love her on the day you get married? Or should you tell her every single day when you wake up and have the opportunity? That's how I feel about my relationship with Jesus Christ." This is probably the smartest retort I've ever heard an athlete give to a theological question. What possible follow-up could the reporter have asked that would not have seemed anti-wife?

    And this, I think, is what makes Tebow so maddening to those who hate him: He refuses to say anything that would validate the suspicion that he's fake (or naïve or self-righteous or dumb). My guess is that Ryan Fitzpatrick or Aaron Rodgers would blow him away on the GRE, but Tebow has profound social intelligence, at least when he speaks in public. It's not that he usually says the right things; he only says the right things, all the time. As a result, he fuels a quasi-tautological reality that makes his supporters ecstatic, even if they don't accept it as wholly valid. This reality is as follows:

    1. Tebow is a good person who loves God.
    2. Tebow throws many incompletions and makes curious, unorthodox decisions.
    3. The Broncos' defense keeps every game tight. Underrated RB Willis McGahee eats the clock.
    4. The Broncos inevitably win in the closing minutes.
    5. Tebow humbly thanks God for this achievement (and for all achievements), thereby crediting God for what just happened (and for what happens to everyone on earth).
    6. Tebow connects God to life.
    7. Tebow is a good person who loves God.
    I doubt many Christians believe that God is unfairly helping Tebow win games in the AFC West. I'm sure a few hardcores might, but not many. However, I get the impression that especially antagonistic secularists assume this assumption infiltrates every aspect of Tebow's celebrity, and that explains why he's so beloved by strangers they cannot relate to. Their negative belief is that penitent, conservative Americans look at Tebow and see a man being "rewarded" for his faith, which validates the idea that believing in something abstract is more important than understanding something real. And this makes them worried about the future, because they see that thinking everywhere. It seems like the thinking that ran this country into the ground.

    It's difficult to take an "anti-faith" position. There's no pejorative connotation of the word faithful. The only time "faith" seems negative is when it's prefaced by the word "blind." But blind faith is the only kind of faith there is. In order for someone's faith to be meaningful, it has to be blind. Anyone can believe a hard fact that everyone already accepts. That's easy. If you can see something, you don't need faith. Faith in the seeable is meaningless. But meaningful faith is dangerous. It simplifies things that aren't simple. Throughout the 20th century, there were only two presidents who won reelection with a bad economy and high unemployment: FDR in 1936 and Reagan in 1984. In both cases, the incumbent presidents were able to argue that their preexisting plans for jump-starting the economy were better than the hypothetical plans of their opponents (Alf Landon and Walter Mondale, respectively). Both incumbents made a better case for what they intended to do, and both enjoyed decisive victories. In 2012, Barack Obama will face a similar situation. But what will happen if his ultimate opponent provides no plan for him to refute? What if his opponent merely says, "Have faith in me. Have faith that I will figure everything out and that I can fix the economy, because I have faith in the American people. Together, we have faith in each other."

    How do you refute the non-argument of meaningful faith?

    You (usually) don't. You (usually) lose.

    Since Tebow was installed as the Broncos' starter, they are 6-1.

    Trust the insane?

    The toughest quarterback in the NFL is Ben Roethlisberger. He's not the best, but he's the toughest. He stands in the pocket longer, absorbs more punishment, exhibits a higher threshold for pain, and plays his best in the clutch. Roethlisberger is also, by all credible accounts, either a jerk or a "former jerk." At best, he has a highly checkered past and an unsympathetic persona. He's the least popular player in the league who hasn't slept on a prison cot.

    It's difficult to separate those qualities. "Toughness" and "meanness" are always intertwined, often coalescing into "grit." When I think about my own life, the toughest people I've known have (often) been bad, bad citizens. Would you rather fight two super-nice guys simultaneously, or one solitary, diabolical reprobate? It's not a difficult question. So when I see Roethlisberger unfazed by a busted nose or a broken foot, it makes sense to me. He seems like the kind of semi-terrible person who is flat-out harder than those around him.

    But try to imagine Tebow as a jerk. Let's say his performance on the field was unchanged, but his off-the-field personality was totally different. Let's say he was alleged to have sexually assaulted a few coeds and electrocuted a few dogs and fired an unlicensed handgun in a nightclub. If all this were true, he would not be polarizing; he would just be unpopular, particularly with the people who currently adore him. Sales of his jerseys would fall through the floor. But what would happen after he guts out an ugly 17-13 win against the Jets? What would be the perception? The perception would be that his victory was due to his toughness. That's how the media would explain it. It wouldn't necessarily be true, but it would immediately make sense to people: We are comfortable with the idea that extra-bad people possess something intangible that helps them win football games. There is a long history of this, especially in places like Oakland.2 But it's less comfortable to think that extra-good people possess such qualities, because that suggests they're being helped by virtuous forces outside of corporeal reality. And that's too much to handle/accept/consider, unless (of course) you already accept that premise unconditionally in every day of your life.

    Right now, whenever Broncos vice president of football operations John Elway3 gets asked about Tebow, he effectively says, "We have no choice but to play him. He wins games." It's not really a compliment. It's almost a criticism. But if Tebow did all this with a prison record, Elway would say the same thing in reverse order: "He wins games. We have no choice but to play him." Which is similar, but not the same.

    There are quantifiable aspects of Tebow's game that get ignored, mostly because everything else about him is so uncanny. His proficiency as a short-yardage bulldozer on third-and-3 compensates for his defects as an intermediate passer on third-and-8. The fact that Tebow only runs selectively gives Denver a psychological edge (for example, they seem to believe he simply can't be stopped on two-point conversions). More than anything else, he's very hard to tackle. All of these qualities are significant in the Broncos' success. But they're not revelatory, and I don't think they have a big impact on why people feel so passionately about this person.

    The machinations of his success don't matter as long as they're inexplicable.

    The crux here, the issue driving this whole "Tebow Thing," is the matter of faith. It's the ongoing choice between embracing a warm feeling that makes no sense or a cold pragmatism that's probably true. And with Tebow, that illogical warm feeling keeps working out. It pays off. The upside to secular thinking is that — in theory — your skepticism will prove correct. Your rightness might be emotionally unsatisfying, but it confirms a stable understanding of the universe. Sports fans who love statistics fall into this camp. People who reject cognitive dissonance build this camp and find the firewood. But Tebow wrecks all that, because he makes blind faith a viable option. His faith in God, his followers' faith in him — it all defies modernity. This is why people care so much. He is making people wonder if they should try to believe things they don't actually believe.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,783 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    I'm not wondering. So his inevitable failure is delayed a little while. It remains inevitable.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,927 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    I'm not wondering. So his inevitable failure is delayed a little while. It remains inevitable.
    When do you decide he is a failure Lloyd? What makes him a failure to you?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,067 ✭✭✭tallaghtoutlaws


    This made me chuckle:
    Broncos Fan on NFL.com comments on Bears/Broncos game:

    i love my Broncos but Tebow is garbage. you Tebow fans... praising a guy becuase he beat the Raiders without McFadden? the Vikings without Peterson? the last place Chargers in one of the worst divisions in the league? or the Doplhins? defenses will figure his game out. he's a one sided qb. reminds me of a young Michael Vick... with less speed and less of an arm. Denver will never see a SB with Tebow at the helms. how long will it take to realize that our defense has needed helo for the past... i don't know... decade. it'll be a short career because he can't throw or concussions and injuries. can't wait to until the Steelers or Ravens get a hold of this guy... Go Broncos...


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,966 ✭✭✭Syferus


    Un. Fúcking. Real.


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