Denver Broncos Thread

Syferus · 28-11-2011 05:39PM

bruschi wrote: »

2 very different things - doubt his ability? yes, all day long

doubt his worth? - 5-1 says I cant.

Ability doesn't begin or end with passing motions and three-step drops.

tallaghtoutlaws · 28-11-2011 05:53PM

Syferus wrote: »

Ability doesn't begin or end with passing motions and three-step drops.

Are you for real? He is supposed to be a NFL Quarterback. Pretty important abilities required by ALL NFL regardless of other Athletic abilities. Tebows issues are Slow Releases, His drop backs and slow throwing motion. They are 100% necessary for any QB.

Anyone who tries to waggle their way out of the above that Tebow doesn't need to fix his abilities is an idiot in my opinion. What he is doing right now is great for Denver getting wins but at some point being an actual QB is going to be necessary and all of the above will be required by him if they ever plan on being a competitive team that can actually go the distance as a team. Right now that defense is 50% of the driving force behind their success.

He fixes his problems he becomes the good QB everyone wants him to be with all the extra intangibles. He doesn't and he will be that guy who motivates guys with his intangibles but will lack the necessary skills to beat the big guns or get them out of bigger scrapes.

eagle eye · 28-11-2011 06:21PM

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Anyone who tries to waggle their way out of the above that Tebow doesn't need to fix his abilities is an idiot in my opinion.

Apologies for just picking this out but its a bit crass and not true either. I personally think he should fix those things when he gets the opportunity but the most important thing is to be on the winning team more often than not. And right now Tebow is doing that and you can't call somebody an idiot if they believe he doesn't need to do that and is leading a team to a 10+ win season whether thats next year or any other year.

themont85 · 28-11-2011 06:23PM

His passing completion percentage is shocking considering teams are just loading up the box to stop their run attack.

tallaghtoutlaws · 28-11-2011 07:35PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Apologies for just picking this out but its a bit crass and not true either. I personally think he should fix those things when he gets the opportunity but the most important thing is to be on the winning team more often than not. And right now Tebow is doing that and you can't call somebody an idiot if they believe he doesn't need to do that and is leading a team to a 10+ win season whether thats next year or any other year.

It is my opinion and I will stand by it. Even you agree he needs to fix those issues. I didn't give a time frame though did I? But they are abilities a NFL QB needs 100%.

But let the mods do the modding I called no one here an idiot as Syferus hasn't given any idea if he believes they are necessary ingredients to a QBs Abilities but said they dont start or end on those said abilities.

But if anyone does come out and say Tebow doesn't need them and they are not necessary for his future well then yes they are idiots.

eagle eye · 28-11-2011 07:40PM

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

It is my opinion and I will stand by it. Even you agree he needs to fix those issues. I didn't give a time frame though did I? But they are abilities a NFL QB needs 100%.

But let the mods do the modding I called no one here an idiot as Syferus hasn't given any idea if he believes they are necessary ingredients to a QBs Abilities but said they dont start or end on those said abilities.

But if anyone does come out and say Tebow doesn't need them and they are not necessary for his future well then yes they are idiots.

I'm not modding, I'm disagreeing with you to a certain extent.

If Tebow can continue to win without fixing those things, and I'm talking about a couple of seasons, then you have been proven wrong.

As I said already I do believe, like you, that he should fix these things when he has the opportunity but they are not as important as winning football games and if he doesn't fix them and continues winning then thats fine.

SantryRed · 28-11-2011 07:40PM

I think Tebow's resurgence of the Bronco's will do them more harm than good in the long run.

eagle eye · 28-11-2011 07:42PM

SantryRed wrote: »

I think Tebow's resurgence of the Bronco's will do them more harm than good in the long run.

Why?

SantryRed · 28-11-2011 07:44PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Why?

Because I think he's gonna be found out by next season. He's just won them their way out of picking up Luck or Barkley, which would be perfect for that team with that mean defence they've picked up.

eagle eye · 28-11-2011 07:47PM

SantryRed wrote: »

Because I think he's gonna be found out by next season. He's just won them their way out of picking up Luck or Barkley, which would be perfect for that team with that mean defence they've picked up.

Why do you think he is going to be found out next season? Do you not think that given a summer with ota's, training camp etc. that the coach won't come up with a better playbook for him and have a team more prepared for it?

And thats not including the possibility that he goes during the offseason and improves his mechanics etc.

tallaghtoutlaws · 28-11-2011 08:00PM

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm not modding, I'm disagreeing with you to a certain extent.

Yeah ok.

If Tebow can continue to win without fixing those things, and I'm talking about a couple of seasons, then you have been proven wrong.

What a pointless statement to make :rolleyes: Its almost like you are throwing it in there just to say I am wrong

Talk about touchy about Tebow.

Edit: got a huge kick out of reading this again. I have been proven wrong already for something that has yet to happen eh? Where can I get a crystal ball like yours? Any chance of Wednesdays lotto numbers?

As I said already I do believe, like you, that he should fix these things when he has the opportunity but they are not as important as winning football games and if he doesn't fix them and continues winning then thats fine.

:rolleyes: I will remember all of this the next time you argue with me about any QB.

tallaghtoutlaws · 28-11-2011 08:09PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Why do you think he is going to be found out next season? Do you not think that given a summer with ota's, training camp etc. that the coach won't come up with a better playbook for him and have a team more prepared for it?

And thats not including the possibility that he goes during the offseason and improves his mechanics etc.

See this is the problem with you. I can accept that sure maybe Tebow does turn out alright but one thing about you is that you can't accept that Tebow's future might not be as rosey as you beleive. Anything anyone says bad about Tebow you attack them and tell them they are wrong and then defend Tebow to the end of the earth. See you write about Tebow as if your opinion of him is actual fact and that your opinion of where his future lies is actual fact.

Cam Newton proved me wrong this season and changed my opinion but Tebow has yet to do it and right now sure he is winning games but he isn't doing it solo but fair play to the lad for driving the team on. But as I said fixing himself is a must but that is just my opinion on how I see NFL QBs and all the other things I stand by of what Tebow and NFL QBs need. Do I think everyon else is wrong? No I don't because its my opinion. For you, you just can't accept that your opinion of Tebow could eventually be wrong so you attack me in the future tense if that is even possible :rolleyes:

eagle eye · 28-11-2011 08:32PM

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

See this is the problem with you. I can accept that sure maybe Tebow does turn out alright but one thing about you is that you can't accept that Tebow's future might not be as rosey as you beleive. Anything anyone says bad about Tebow you attack them and tell them they are wrong and then defend Tebow to the end of the earth. See you write about Tebow as if your opinion of him is actual fact and that your opinion of where his future lies is actual fact.

Cam Newton proved me wrong this season and changed my opinion but Tebow has yet to do it and right now sure he is winning games but he isn't doing it solo but fair play to the lad for driving the team on. But as I said fixing himself is a must but that is just my opinion on how I see NFL QBs and all the other things I stand by of what Tebow and NFL QBs need. Do I think everyon else is wrong? No I don't because its my opinion. For you, you just can't accept that your opinion of Tebow could eventually be wrong so you attack me in the future tense if that is even possible :rolleyes:

So lets get this straight, I quote another poster and ask him a question. And you somehow construe this as an attack on you in some way and that I'm defending Tebow?

tallaghtoutlaws · 28-11-2011 08:34PM

eagle eye wrote: »

So lets get this straight, I quote another poster and ask him a question. And you somehow construe this as an attack on you in some way and that I'm defending Tebow?

Where did I say you were attacking me? I was making a general statement about your defense of Tebow.

Hence why I said this:

Anything anyone says .......

I was making the point that no matter what happens is that your opinion on Tebow seems to be fact and that anyone who goes against it is wrong. Even though most guys who go against Tebow have even conceded that he could turn out alright but on the conditions of fixing himself. You clearly don't have an open mind on the subject.

Edit: to add to the above I was using myself as an example of being able to accept that yes my own opinion is open, pending what he does in the future. If he eventually proves me wrong so be it. But as I said I don't believe he will as I believe he needs to fix his skills.

eagle eye · 28-11-2011 08:49PM

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Where did I say you were attacking me? I was making a general statement about your defense of Tebow.

Hence why I said this:

Well I never said that the other poster was wrong now did I? I simply asked him why he thought what he did and then asked him a question considering that Tebow came in after 5 games this season and a new playbook was contrived for him at that stage. Its not like he had a whole preseason to prepare. And I wasn't even talking about mechanics and I agree with you that he should do something about them.

So lets get this straight right here and now.

I haven't been raving about his performances as a QB. I have been praising his attitude and his getting wins. I said before he became the starter, always actually, that I feel his intangibles are something special. I've said now that I believe his leadership and inspiration are rubbing off on his teammates. I showed you the comment made by Champ Bailey.

I've said from the very start that my opionion of Tebow is that he will find a way to get it done. He is doing that despite not having the mechanics/footwork that would make him a good pocket passer. I truly believe that he will try extremely hard in the offseason to get his footwork and mechanics right becuase he is that type of guy.

I like Tebow, I've been a huge fan since his college days and that will never change because of his attitude, his desire and will to win.

Its amazing because I've listened to a lot of the experts who are now taking his side saying exactly what I've said from the start that he is just inspirational and finds a way to win.

But as far as you are concerned if I ask a guy a couple of questions I am attacking people.

tallaghtoutlaws · 28-11-2011 08:52PM

eagle eye wrote: »

But as far as you are concerned if I ask a guy a couple of questions I am attacking people.

I was basing my opinion of you defending Tebow on the whole thread.

And as for all the experts saying the same thing as you now? :rolleyes:

The fact of the matter is you are never going to accept that in the long run you could end up being wrong about Tebow but yet you will say I am already wrong based on your opinion of him in the future that hasn't happened yet. See this is where your opinion in your own mind becomes fact.

eagle eye · 28-11-2011 09:03PM

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

I was basing my opinion of you defending Tebow on the whole thread.

And as for all the experts saying the same thing as you now? :rolleyes:

The fact of the matter is you are never going to accept that in the long run you could end up being wrong about Tebow but yet you will say I am already wrong based on your opinion of him in the future that hasn't happened yet. See this is where your opinion in your own mind becomes fact.

I said that you could be proven wrong in the future not that you are wrong now. I don't think you should be calling people idiots who have an opinion on something that you could be proven wrong about.

tallaghtoutlaws · 28-11-2011 09:38PM

eagle eye wrote: »

I said that you could be proven wrong in the future not that you are wrong now. I don't think you should be calling people idiots who have an opinion on something that you could be proven wrong about.

No you didn't

eagle eye wrote: »

If Tebow can continue to win without fixing those things, and I'm talking about a couple of seasons, then you have been proven wrong.

Im sorry but this is badly written if you meant could be proven wrong.

Yes I could be proven wrong but I could also be proven right and if I want to tag people a certain way based on my opinion that is my opinion. If I am wrong so be it I will stand up and accept it but for you to tell me I shouldn't do something smacks of back seat modding. If you don't like what I said report it, simple as.

Mr. Guappa · 28-11-2011 09:51PM

Tebow has thrown just one interception since becoming starter (in the blowout against Detroit). Like his mechanics or not he has not thrown an INT in 4 games. Taking care of the football is one thing that you look for in a young QB. His TD:INT ratio is 8:1 since he came in against the Chargers first time around. Kyle Orton's ratio was 8:7 in his 4.5 games.

Edit: It's not like he is playing with a top-drawer receiving corps either, they traded Brandon Lloyd before he became starter.

tallaghtoutlaws · 28-11-2011 10:16PM

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Tebow has thrown just one interception since becoming starter (in the blowout against Detroit). Like his mechanics or not he has not thrown an INT in 4 games. Taking care of the football is one thing that you look for in a young QB. His TD:INT ratio is 8:1 since he came in against the Chargers first time around. Kyle Orton's ratio was 8:7 in his 4.5 games.

Edit: It's not like he is playing with a top-drawer receiving corps either, they traded Brandon Lloyd before he became starter.

But the more footballs you throw the more Ints you are going to throw. Tebow has bairly thrown the ball at all and when another QB would throw downfield and take a chance Tebow would either run or get sacked.

Throwing Ints these days dont make or break QBs. Tom Brady threw 7 Ints in 4 games this season. Does that mae Tebow better than him? No. But you look at the amount of passing attempts all the QB on the top of the passing list have compared to Tebow over 7 games. Of course they are going to have more Ints. I dont buy the lack of Ints as an argument especially when they are making him run more.

Fair play to the lad I would say for not forcing unnecessary balls down field when he could just run with it. But the Denver system is Pro run right now taking the pressure off Tebow to force passes downfield and only throw on designed plays.

tallaghtoutlaws · 28-11-2011 10:18PM

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Edit: It's not like he is playing with a top-drawer receiving corps either, they traded Brandon Lloyd before he became starter.

True but with all the running they are doing WR are getting a lot of space and getting wide open due to Defenses playing the run first. Good playcalling by the Broncos at times also lulling the defense into committing to a run and then hitting them with a play action or dump pass or screen.

eagle eye · 28-11-2011 10:42PM

Oh and btw Tallaght this is my 40th post in this thread, there are 3 with more. Chucky has 61, Spiralism has 98 and guess who has the most? Would you care to guess how many. I'll spoiler it so you can guess first.

Tallaghtoutlaws 129 posts

tallaghtoutlaws · 28-11-2011 10:43PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Oh and btw Tallaght this is my 40th post in this thread, there are 3 with more. Chucky has 61, Spiralism has 98 and guess who has the most? Would you care to guess how many. I'll spoiler it so you can guess first.
Tallaghtoutlaws 129 posts

What has post count got to do what I said?

eagle eye · 28-11-2011 10:46PM

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

What has post count got to do what I said?

Well you have been arguing with everybody that posts anything positive about Tebow. Thats why you have 129 posts in this thread.

tallaghtoutlaws · 28-11-2011 10:49PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Well you have been arguing with everybody that posts anything positive about Tebow. Thats why you have 129 posts in this thread.

I have said a fair amount of good things about Tebow in this thread. Unlike you I am open to Tebow getting better and proving me wrong and I have said that on many occasions. It sounds like you are taking this all too personal now. Even in the last two pages I have said good things about him. My opinion has been the same one. Fix him and he is golden. Dont fix him and the winning wont last. Fair play to him for the way he is playing right now and Denver using his current strengths. But you see I can accept when I am wrong and have said he could end up proving me wrong. You on the other hand stick your guns on your fact oh I mean your opinion as its the only right one.

eagle eye wrote: »

Well you have been arguing with everybody that posts anything positive about Tebow. Thats why you have 129 posts in this thread.

As for the post count it is still irrelevant. But I am sorry mr mod for posting too much in 1 thread

spiralism · 29-11-2011 03:37AM

Tebow:
6-3 as starter
4-1 on the road
8 TDs passing, 3 Rush
2 Turnovers total (1 fumble, 1 INT, both against detroit)
He's hovering at below 50% completion, but isnt turning it over. That and the the throwing motion argument are literally the only criticisms of him that can stick right now. Even still, they're very promising numbers considering how green he is. God knows, even Manning and Elway sucked in their first seasons, is it really that absurd to say that Tebow cant and wont be able to improve as a passer?

He's winning, simple as. Obviously there's a lot more to it than him but in this very same thread i got laughed out of it for suggesting that he'd have won us the games orton was losing narrowly because it was a bad team with no run game, defence, a bad offensive line or any identity whatsoever. now we're winning games because of a great run game, defence and offensive line....hmmm

It's right there to be seen, Tebow has had a direct tactical impact on two of the three and his intangibles and leadership have played a part on all three, the comments from the locker room show it (listen to what Eric Decker, Brian Dawkins, Von Miller and Champ Bailey have to say about him) and its just pretty obvious. You tell me the players played this tough for Josh Mcdaniels and Kyle Orton or even Jay Cutler. I havent seen this much heart and toughness in a Broncos team since at least 2005 (around the time Shanahans coaching career started going into a tailspin). For the first time in forever i'm actually hopeful that we'll come out of this lull we've been in since losing to the steelers in the conference game back in the 05 season.

tallaghtoutlaws · 29-11-2011 05:53AM

spiralism wrote: »

He's winning, simple as. Obviously there's a lot more to it than him but in this very same thread i got laughed out of it for suggesting that he'd have won us the games orton was losing narrowly because it was a bad team with no run game, defence, a bad offensive line or any identity whatsoever. now we're winning games because of a great run game, defence and offensive line....hmmm

Considering you are probably aiming this at me I will answer it. I still don't believe your o-line is any good. But the adjustment from straight man blocking to zone reads has helped the o-line they are still the same ****e o-line that failed to protect Orton. Only difference is they are now run blocking more than trying to pass protect. Its funny though the bad oline was brought up by someone defending Tebow.

As for your run game you yourself said that was ****e. And none of us saw the full potential of what it could do until the really stopped throwing the football and put it back on the ground. Zone blocking will always get the best out of a run first offense as its double team blocking breaking off into the second level so everyone is picked up and back generally have more running room or cut back lanes. Denver have gotten that to work so far and it shows.

But when you change a whole system to suit a QB it either going to work or fail and in this case its working. The Zone reads and blocks are working perfectly for Tebow, The Screen passes and Dump passes are also mimicking runs so the Broncos right now are confusing defenses. And the Denver coaching staff is getting the best of what Tebow can actually do.

Your defense then no one really said anything bad about them. On certain times after certain games people commented about how bad they looked but no one wrote them off the way you are suggesting right now.

But it is silly of you coming on here trying say "I told you so" by bringing up the o-line and rushing when you yourself knocked both at times. You also said on many occasions that Denver were sh1te and all you want is Tebow starting.

Tristram · 29-11-2011 12:02PM

Nice to see Denver using systems that get the best out of their QB. Nice to see the QB playing well and winning games. Here's hoping both continue!

(Why posters insist on telling other posters what they said is beyond me.)

D3PO · 29-11-2011 12:31PM

My view hasnt changed on Tebow over the past 6 games. I still say hes not ready to be an NFL starting QB but winning games is the name of the game and Denver are doing it.

That said he has earned the right to get the front offices support and a pre season behind him as the starter to see if that can do anything to improve his game to the level where he has a genuine chance of being a long term starter in the league.

Hes doing some good things in that hes not turning over the football but people just seem to forget a lot of the game situations that assited these wins

Of all his wins he did things to assist in the wins especially how he ran on the last drive v the Jets but he has been hevaily assisted by defense and special teams and big individual performances.

The win v Oakland where McGahee ran riot
The win v Miami was down to special teams recovering an onside kick and then the defense getting a turnover in OT
The win v the Chiefs was seriously assisted by a special teams TD return
The win v the Jets was seriously assisted by an int return for a TD
The win v the Chargers was assisted by two missed field goals by the Chargers

Now yes give him a chance they are winning games and hes certainly had some level of influence on the squads collective attitude and subsequently performance but dont confuse this with him being a QB that you can rely on to take the game by the scruff of the neck and deliver.

Kudos to the guy there is something about him and I am rooting for him.

Totally different conversation but I think hes make an excellent NFL Tight End a better one than he will eer be a QB if he were jsut to give it a chance.

spiralism · 29-11-2011 01:34PM

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Considering you are probably aiming this at me I will answer it. I still don't believe your o-line is any good. But the adjustment from straight man blocking to zone reads has helped the o-line they are still the same ****e o-line that failed to protect Orton. Only difference is they are now run blocking more than trying to pass protect. Its funny though the bad oline was brought up by someone defending Tebow.

As for your run game you yourself said that was ****e. And none of us saw the full potential of what it could do until the really stopped throwing the football and put it back on the ground. Zone blocking will always get the best out of a run first offense as its double team blocking breaking off into the second level so everyone is picked up and back generally have more running room or cut back lanes. Denver have gotten that to work so far and it shows.

But when you change a whole system to suit a QB it either going to work or fail and in this case its working. The Zone reads and blocks are working perfectly for Tebow, The Screen passes and Dump passes are also mimicking runs so the Broncos right now are confusing defenses. And the Denver coaching staff is getting the best of what Tebow can actually do.

Your defense then no one really said anything bad about them. On certain times after certain games people commented about how bad they looked but no one wrote them off the way you are suggesting right now.

But it is silly of you coming on here trying say "I told you so" by bringing up the o-line and rushing when you yourself knocked both at times. You also said on many occasions that Denver were sh1te and all you want is Tebow starting.

we'd just come off a 4-12 year and were losing in blowouts to good teams and losing narrowly to bad ones (titans, chargers), calling us ****e at that time was hardly unfair, this has really been a great turnaround. What im saying is that tebow has had an effect on both the offensive line and rushing through the zone read game and his scrambling ability, which i did also say would make a big difference.

we did try and run the ball early on, it just wasnt working at all. As i attested earlier, the team was completely ****ing lifeless up until 5 mins to go in the miami game, the turnaround has been uncanny. I was beginning to doubt whether we had any good in us but a lot has changed since the end of october...

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