To those getting shafted by college fees

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

This is not opinion, the league tables speak for themselves.

They do, but they speak a particular complex language. League tables are compiled based on a host of different criteria, including funding (esp. research funding) which is particularly relevant in this discussion. Ireland has never been good on that score (peripheral economy; highly reliant on multi-nationals who keep the bulk of their research funding at home; and I would say a general Irish culture which doesn't value R&D as highly as it should). It improved a bit during the boom, but is dropping back again; and between general funding issues (including as a result staff : student ratios) and this issue of research funding, Irish universities are again slipping in the tables having made some headway since 2000.

I wouldn't dismiss league tables totally by any means, but quality of undergraduate education is only one of the indicators used, and not the one that Irish colleges do worst on by any means.

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

Third Level is a little cushier from what I have seen myself.

Again, I wouldn't disagree entirely, but it varies hugely and there's a lot of work which is pretty invisible to students tbh.

I would also say that it isn't anything like as "cushy" as 20 / 30 years ago, just listening to the old-timers!

But if you're lucky enough to have a permanent lecturing post in a Uni, in a department which has small numbers of students, and you're a lazy bugger who does the absolute minimum: basic teaching hours; pottering around making a big deal of a small bit of research; never getting involved in developing new courses or even the internal admin / co-ordination with the department ... then yes, you still won't die from overwork.

Not that many get away with that these days though.

Most departments have seen a huge upsurge in student numbers over the last 20 / 25 years without anything like the same increase in staff, and that's not even looking at the last 3 / 4 years in particular, when student numbers have shot up and the embargo means approx. 1 in 3 staff who leave are replaced.

Many departments are now heavily reliant on occasional, contract or part-time staff ... too heavily actually, and that's another factor which does us no good in those tables you were talking about.

The pressure to research and publish has increased hugely over the last couple of decades (and it's hard to argue with that, certainly).

But one of the real problems is the exponential increase in paperwork and admin and general bureaucracy and so on that no-one can avoid completely, and that takes up I'd say 40-50% of many academic's work hours. It's partly the result of massification and the huge increase in numbers; it's partly because because QA systems are far too paper-trail obsessed these days; and let's be honest, it's partly because bureaucracy breeds flaming bureaucracy!! >.<

Miss Olenska wrote: »

Oh snap! :rolleyes:

Definition of third best: (not sure why I need to provide this though)

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/third-best

You don't. I was questioning how they came to a figure as high as #3 in the world. I could fire 30 universities off the top of my head that would rate higher than any Irish university for science.

That's not saying your science dept is poor, just it's a very very competitive field.

amacachi wrote: »

Something in Ireland being "not too bad"?! Don't be ridiculous, everyone knows it's the worst country in the world and we're living through the most austere times in world history.

Yes, I would prefer Somalia

amacachi wrote: »

Why should everyone else have to invest in your (or my) education though? If you're dedicated enough then the one night out every two weeks could be sacrificed to cover a 500 or so increase in the reg. fee.

I still can't see the problem with loans. It's up to you if you want to do them or not.

This is the thing, though, I'm sure it's set to go up by much more than €500