Denver Broncos Thread

mikemac · 18-10-2011 10:17PM

A lot of presssure on Demaryius Thomas this week, from reading around different forums his name is getting mentioned as someone who needs to step up this weekend

First round pick and was going very well until his injury.
But hasn't done anything realy this year at all

Spiralism, do the fans have confidence in Thomas?

Syferus · 18-10-2011 11:02PM

mikemac wrote: »

A lot of presssure on Demaryius Thomas this week, from reading around different forums his name is getting mentioned as someone who needs to step up this weekend

First round pick and was going very well until his injury.
But hasn't done anything realy this year at all

Spiralism, do the fans have confidence in Thomas?

He was? In his last four games (Wk7-11 '10) he totaled 8 receptions for 105 yards. He had a good game against the Seahawks last year, but besides that even when he was fit he didn't do very much. He showed one glimpse of his talent but the pressure will start to really pile on now Lloyd is gone.

mikemac · 18-10-2011 11:11PM

Ah just my subjective memory of him, happy to be corrected

I need to go back and check the stats, I know you posted he only had one great game earlier in the thread

spiralism · 19-10-2011 02:00AM

mikemac wrote: »

A lot of presssure on Demaryius Thomas this week, from reading around different forums his name is getting mentioned as someone who needs to step up this weekend

First round pick and was going very well until his injury.
But hasn't done anything realy this year at all

Spiralism, do the fans have confidence in Thomas?

If he stays fit then yeah we do... when he was fit last year he looked great... though the only game he played at full speed with the offence clicking was in week 2.. 7-11 he played but wasnt at full speed and we were playing some ****ing woeful stuff in that spell. Josh McDaniels playing him as a ****ing kick returner didnt help, he got flattened a couple of times and got hurt because of it. (apologies about the language, it invariably happens when i look back on that season, nightmare)

Idk if we trust him to stay fit though, I dont. Eric Decker is the man to look out for as well as our group of Tight Ends, all of whom are pretty good, though Julius Thomas and Daniel Fells look the pick of the bunch. I dont agree with the Lloyd trade but i always maintained that our WR core was quite good, when we had Gaffney and Lloyd last year among them it was up there as one of the best in the league, we'll be ok if we keep Demaryius on the field

neilster · 19-10-2011 08:01AM

spiralism wrote: »

we're stockpiling them now to trade to indy for Luck (who Elway ADORES) if i didn't know any better

Indy who Jim Irsay has already said likes idea of Luck will be first in line for Luck and Miami will also be there ahead of Denver. It resembles the situation when Elway himself was drafted , where the person was a cert and the price wanted for him had to outweigh his value to the team (which was very high due to the certainty of his quality) themselves which made the trade too high and the team residing at No 1 has to make the pick (with no takes for their very high price) and take him and that wont be Denver

This is a very deep class in Quarterbacks in 2012 in the draft

neilster · 19-10-2011 08:20AM

spiralism wrote: »

we werent, one side effect of josh mcdaniels dynamite job on the team is that, while we have cap space, we're gone incredibly conservative as regards our spending after the ****ing mountains of money that prick wasted in his time with us.

Though, to be fair, i see what Fox and especially Elway are doing here, now that i think of it. When Elway started as our QB he struggled a lot for a few years so Dan Reeves built a run oriented offense around him and let him adapt... it worked and the rest is history, though Reeves got too far ahead of himself, insisted on the run game long after Elway had become the class QB he ended up being, fell out with Elway and was fired.

Elway wants to prevent Tebow from struggling by building a run oriented offense around him, one centred around him managing the offense and making the plays where needed as opposed to shouldering the burden, as it was the experience that Elway had running that offence that ultimately made him a great. Hence the Fox hire and now this move, he sees Decker and Demaryius Thomas as ideal for this plan, along with a good set of TEs in Julius Thomas, Daniel Fells and Dante Rosario and that they will make Tebow utilise the short game instead of lobbing it deep to lloyd for a ridiculous catch

John Fox was hired in Denver because of his success on the defensive side of the ball , building gritty no-nonsense teams who build from the ground up . Think of Denver as an expansion-like team like Carolina all those years ago building through the draft getting mean on defense ...improving the run and building some pass-rush . I would see that as progress at Denver if there were winning games by season end like this or early next season .

Some of what you say may be right about their thoughts on the identity of the Broncos offense going forward but i dont think Elway and Fox built it this way with Tebow in mind . They dont know what they have got and they soon will . But his future over these next games will have to answer some questions

1) Can he quicken his release
2) Can he sort out his mechanics and that strange action and ball flight that is there which is a low flight and which massive defensive linemen get to tip the ball and batt it down
3) Can he start to make more reads and expand the field
4) Can he play the vertical ball (i think this is something he can myself)
5) Can he put up respectable passing numbers and win ( rushing and winning will not work, its a pass happy league), this means can he get his percentages up , play no-huddle, the two minute game
6) Can he move beyond play-action

None of these issues have really been laden to rest

I dont see any great evidence of Fox and Elway building their offense around Tebow , i see the point of how there doing it ..not the Tebow part . He will have to answer the above and also change Fox & Elways minds in my opinion . He may not have to completely attain the above but he will have to seriously perform to stop another QB getting drafted high by the Broncos cos its a draft with a lot of talent at the position

cosatron · 19-10-2011 11:41AM

just for s**ts and giggles, lets predict tebows stats for sunday...
passing att-20 for 40 with 150 yards 2 td, 3 int
rushing-15 attempts for 50 yards, 2 td
2 sacks.
I think its a good game for him to start off with and i hope his a success cause you can't but admire the man, its a pity he can't pass for s**t.

mikemac · 19-10-2011 11:46AM

It is a good game for him to start

I'd like to see him run against Ray Lewis or Patrick Willis, he might think twice

Stev_o · 19-10-2011 11:55AM

If he doesn't win they'll be a giant **** storm. Miami is the biggest pile of sh*t in the League at the mo.

tallaghtoutlaws · 19-10-2011 12:04PM

I would take anything he does this weekend with a pinch of salt. The Dolphins are woeful and Tebow's stats will be padded because of it. As someone said though if he struggles against the fish he is doomed right from the get go.

Week 8 will be a test with that Detroit D-line coming down on him and Weeks 11,12,15,16 being the only other real tests on the schedule.Tebow in my mind gets luck with his schedule because he has some great games to beef up his stats to give Denver fans false hope etc etc.

spiralism · 19-10-2011 02:46PM

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

I would take anything he does this weekend with a pinch of salt. The Dolphins are woeful and Tebow's stats will be padded because of it. As someone said though if he struggles against the fish he is doomed right from the get go.

Week 8 will be a test with that Detroit D-line coming down on him and Weeks 11,12,15,16 being the only other real tests on the schedule.Tebow in my mind gets luck with his schedule because he has some great games to beef up his stats to give Denver fans false hope etc etc.

what are you on about? Miami and Minnesota (both away) are the only games id fancy us in... maybe kansas at home. dunno how we get lucky with one of the hardest schedules in the league

Remaning games:
@ MIA - should win, Miami are crap
DET - Might be a close affair but a very difficult test i cant see us passing
@ OAK - as above
@ KC - we never win in arrowhead, kansas arent as bad as first seemed
NYJ - never know the way the Jets have been this year but this isnt one we'll likely win
@ SD - another hard game, we'll probably push them though
@ MIN - probably should win that yeah
CHI- another tough game, winnable though because of the cutler factor
NE - not a fear
@ BUF - never know but a bit too big an ask this year probably
KC- probably should win

with the exception of maybe two at a stretch, none of those games will be won easily, there wont be any stat padding there

tallaghtoutlaws · 19-10-2011 03:01PM

spiralism wrote: »

what are you on about? Miami and Minnesota (both away) are the only games id fancy us in... maybe kansas at home. dunno how we get lucky with one of the hardest schedules in the league

Remaning games:
@ MIA - should win, Miami are crap
DET - Might be a close affair but a very difficult test i cant see us passing
@ OAK - as above
@ KC - we never win in arrowhead, kansas arent as bad as first seemed
NYJ - never know the way the Jets have been this year but this isnt one we'll likely win
@ SD - another hard game, we'll probably push them though
@ MIN - probably should win that yeah
CHI- another tough game, winnable though because of the cutler factor
NE - not a fear
@ BUF - never know but a bit too big an ask this year probably
KC- probably should win

with the exception of maybe two at a stretch, none of those games will be won easily, there wont be any stat padding there

You are missing my point

7 Oct 23 DEN @ MIA <---- Woeful as in Tebow should look like a superstar.
8 Oct 30 DET @ DEN <

test for Tebow big style
9 Nov 06 DEN @ OAK <

Tebow wont completely struggle but Oakland will pressure him
10 Nov 13 DEN @ KC <

Kansas shockingly bad defensively
11 Nov 17 NYJ @ DEN <

Tebow will struggle
12 Nov 27 DEN @ SD<

Tebow will Struggle
13 Dec 04 DEN @ MIN <

Tebow should do alright
14 Dec 11 CHI @ DEN <

Tebow should do alright
15 Dec 18 NE @ DEN <

Tebow will struggle
16 Dec 24 DEN @ BUF<

Tebow will struggle
17 Jan 01 KC @ DEN <

See above to other Kansas game.

The ones in bold I am talking about. But I wasn't talking about wins or losses. I really dont care about Denver as a unit will win or lose. I was talking about how Tebow would perform against them and the ones in bold are the teams I think he will struggle against that will test him more than the others.

Edit: To clarify the schedule you guys have should be handy for Tebow as a QB. If he is a Superstar that everyone says he is only 4 games in my eyes will be big tests to him. Now Im not talking about whether Denver will win or lose though. But the 4 games in bold should give us a good idea and most likely determine how good Tebow is. The other teams there is ample opportunity for him to pad stats or look alright.

spiralism · 19-10-2011 03:33PM

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

You are missing my point

7 Oct 23 DEN @ MIA <---- Woeful as in Tebow should look like a superstar.
8 Oct 30 DET @ DEN <
test for Tebow big style
9 Nov 06 DEN @ OAK <
Tebow wont completely struggle but Oakland will pressure him
10 Nov 13 DEN @ KC <
Kansas shockingly bad defensively
11 Nov 17 NYJ @ DEN <
Tebow will struggle
12 Nov 27 DEN @ SD<
Tebow will Struggle
13 Dec 04 DEN @ MIN <
Tebow should do alright
14 Dec 11 CHI @ DEN <
Tebow should do alright
15 Dec 18 NE @ DEN <
Tebow will struggle
16 Dec 24 DEN @ BUF<
Tebow will struggle
17 Jan 01 KC @ DEN <
See above to other Kansas game.

The ones in bold I am talking about. But I wasn't talking about wins or losses. I really dont care about Denver as a unit will win or lose. I was talking about how Tebow would perform against them and the ones in bold are the teams I think he will struggle against that will test him more than the others.

Edit: To clarify the schedule you guys have should be handy for Tebow as a QB. If he is a Superstar that everyone says he is only 4 games in my eyes will be big tests to him. Now Im not talking about whether Denver will win or lose though. But the 4 games in bold should give us a good idea and most likely determine how good Tebow is. The other teams there is ample opportunity for him to pad stats or look alright.

fair enough, if thats what you meant. for what its worth i'd expect tebow to struggle in the games you mentioned, minus SD and NE... but he will have trouble against Oakland and have some problems against Tamba Hali and Jared Allen in the KC and Minnesota games. SD he already did ok against and the pats defense is pretty leaky, even though we'll definitely be beaten in that game

Le King · 19-10-2011 10:52PM

Tebow have his best performance against the Patriots IMO. Any starting QB should have a decent game against the Pats.

No such thing as a pass rush in NE.

I certainly don't understand why anyone would highlight that as a game a QB would struggle in the league.

tallaghtoutlaws · 19-10-2011 11:06PM

Le King wrote: »

Tebow have his best performance against the Patriots IMO. Any starting QB should have a decent game against the Pats.

No such thing as a pass rush in NE.

I certainly don't understand why anyone would highlight that as a game a QB would struggle in the league.

You don't have to understand it as it is a matter of opinion. I think that Tebow will struggle against the Pats d-line because his O-line wont protect him long enough and add that to the amount of time it takes him to throw the ball he will try use his feet and get up ended by the Pats d-line.

The Pats pass rush has been getting better as the weeks go on also and there is 9 weeks before they play each other. Besides the WR corp Denver have now added with an average passer in Tebow isn't exactly going to light up games. Unless Thomas gets his sh1t together in 9 weeks.

Johnny_Fontane · 20-10-2011 05:46AM

Moreno could be an asset to tebow....most defences will be looking to get to tebow but if he can dump the ball successfully on short routes he could get some breathing space....

You gotta give the kid time though.

I think youthful exuberance could be a positive for him initially, he'll breakout a little, first few games, probably lose a few (like Newton) but the tests will come later....it's way too early for people to rag him at this stage!

spiralism · 20-10-2011 04:33PM

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

You don't have to understand it as it is a matter of opinion. I think that Tebow will struggle against the Pats d-line because his O-line wont protect him long enough and add that to the amount of time it takes him to throw the ball he will try use his feet and get up ended by the Pats d-line.

The Pats pass rush has been getting better as the weeks go on also and there is 9 weeks before they play each other. Besides the WR corp Denver have now added with an average passer in Tebow isn't exactly going to light up games. Unless Thomas gets his sh1t together in 9 weeks.

maybe by the time the game comes around things will be different yeah, but right now yer pass rush wouldnt get near him, our offensive line only gave up 2 sacks to the far superior pass rushes of Green Bay, Tennessee and San Diego between them

i mean, ye seriously struggled against miami's passing offence, we'd at least put up points through the air against ye if we were to play right now. obviously we'd lose but the point stands

also, regarding the above post on moreno, i could see him becoming a big weapon in the screen game due to the amount of blitzes and 8 man fronts we'll likely be seeing

tallaghtoutlaws · 20-10-2011 04:41PM

spiralism wrote: »

maybe by the time the game comes around things will be different yeah, but right now yer pass rush wouldnt get near him, our offensive line only gave up 2 sacks to the far superior pass rushes of Green Bay, Tennessee and San Diego between them

As I said it is my opinion based on how I see the Pats Pash rush improving over the next 9 weeks. Who cares what they have given up right now. From what I have seen over the last 2 games I am convinced the Pass rush will improve. The Cowboys game they showed they can put pressure on Romo and that Dallas O-line is one of the better ones around.

i mean, ye seriously struggled against miami's passing offence, we'd at least put up points through the air against ye if we were to play right now. obviously we'd lose but the point stands

Game 1 of the NFL season. Again as I said our pass rush is getting better and again we are 9 weeks away from playing Denver.

And what point stands? He gave his opinion I gave mine. He could be right I could be right. He said he couldn't understand how I could say the Pats would be trouble for Tebow and I asked him what is there to understand? Its that simple. If you don't agree with it fair enough to each their own.

tallaghtoutlaws · 20-10-2011 04:49PM

spiralism wrote: »

the far superior pass rushes of Green Bay, Tennessee and San Diego between them

Really? far Superior? You do realise the Packers have the 2nd worst Pass defense in the league right? And when it comes to getting to the QB Tennessee have 11 sacks and the Pats 10. The Pats are last due to the amount of yards they have given up in the air. But over the last 3 games they have improved. As for the Pack they have struggled against the Pass also.

spiralism · 20-10-2011 09:21PM

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Really? far Superior? You do realise the Packers have the 2nd worst Pass defense in the league right? And when it comes to getting to the QB Tennessee have 11 sacks and the Pats 10. The Pats are last due to the amount of yards they have given up in the air. But over the last 3 games they have improved. As for the Pack they have struggled against the Pass also.

yeah, i do, thing is though, the packers have almost always had the lead in their games, their pass defence numbers are going to be inflated because of that, teams have no choice but to pass against them, they're leaking big yards in the pass game, the pats are leaking points in the pass game, maybe ye have improved in that department lately but bear in mind the last 3 QBs ye faced were Jason Campbell, Mark Sanchez and Tony Romo(in full on choke mode). Packers also have 15 sacks btw

end of the day, wait and see, its not a game i expect us to do well in but i think he'll face worse defensive tests than NE, especially in Denver. Oakland and San Diego away are two, on the road to teams with a good pass rush, the crowd will lap up any mistake and make things very difficult

tallaghtoutlaws · 20-10-2011 09:39PM

spiralism wrote: »

yeah, i do, thing is though, the packers have almost always had the lead in their games, their pass defence numbers are going to be inflated because of that, teams have no choice but to pass against them, they're leaking big yards in the pass game, the pats are leaking points in the pass game, maybe ye have improved in that department lately but bear in mind the last 3 QBs ye faced were Jason Campbell, Mark Sanchez and Tony Romo(in full on choke mode). Packers also have 15 sacks btw

end of the day, wait and see, its not a game i expect us to do well in but i think he'll face worse defensive tests than NE, especially in Denver. Oakland and San Diego away are two, on the road to teams with a good pass rush, the crowd will lap up any mistake and make things very difficult

- Cam Newton 90+ Yards 1st drive Packers trailing by 7
- Cutler 302 yards and pushed the Packers. Lead or not the Packers failed to tame the bears until Cutler threw a bad pick at the back end of the 4th Quarter
- Matt Ryan had 167 and 1 TD and the Falcons had the lead for a full half. Again the Packers showing weakness in the secondary. In fact had the Falcons

As for the Points thing :rolleyes: You do realise the Packers and Pats have both given up the same amount of TD in the Air Defensively right? And don't use the excuse "Oh the other team was chasing the game" as any defense should be making those stops regardless of the lead.

You can try justify the Packers being down there all you want by making excuses but like the Pats they have struggled at times to stop the pass. There is no denying the Pats are bad in our secondary and our Pass rush has been lack luster but the the pressure on Romo on Sunday regardless of what he put up showed they are getting there. In my opinion the Pats will contain Tebow to less than 180 yards passing and a TD and less than 50 yards rushing and maybe 1 TD and which are average numbers. And fire away and quote this.

spiralism · 23-10-2011 09:54PM

In four starts, despite being raw as **** and a number of issues still there, Tebow has two fourth quarter game winning/tying drives, both of which were part of 15+ point turnarounds

Today he was ****e for three quarters, missed open receivers, got sacked 7 times and yet pulled a win out of his arse down 15 points with less than 3 minutes to play. Heart of a champion, that lad. If he can sort out the issues that came up today over the course of the season, he's going to be something special altogether

themont85 · 23-10-2011 09:58PM

spiralism wrote: »

In four starts, despite being raw as **** and a number of issues still there, Tebow has two fourth quarter game winning/tying drives, both of which were part of 15+ point turnarounds

Today he was ****e for three quarters, missed open receivers, got sacked 7 times and yet pulled a win out of his arse down 15 points with less than 3 minutes to play. Heart of a champion, that lad. If he can sort out the issues that came up today over the course of the season, he's going to be something special altogether

Playing the Dolphins to be fair.

Chucky the tree · 23-10-2011 10:05PM

spiralism wrote: »

In four starts, despite being raw as **** and a number of issues still there, Tebow has two fourth quarter game winning/tying drives, both of which were part of 15+ point turnarounds

Today he was ****e for three quarters, missed open receivers, got sacked 7 times and yet pulled a win out of his arse down 15 points with less than 3 minutes to play. Heart of a champion, that lad. If he can sort out the issues that came up today over the course of the season, he's going to be something special altogether

If Jamarcus Russell could sort out his problems he wouldn't have been a bust..

tallaghtoutlaws · 23-10-2011 10:10PM

Am I the only one who thinks that Thomas and Fells played big roles in helping Tebow out. Both the TD pass to Thomas and the long pass to Fells were bad passes that were turned into completions by both the WR and TE with spectacular dives.

Also as themont85 says it was the Dolphins who were awful and 0-5 going into the game. The fact Tebow struggled for 3 quarters against a woeful team shows there is a lot of work there. Not only that the Dolphins fell apart in the 4th Quarter.

Tebow plays like that against better teams and he will be murdered.

tallaghtoutlaws · 23-10-2011 10:11PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

If Jamarcus Russell could sort out his problems he wouldn't have been a bust..

Agreed had he not turned into a fat lazy pr1ck he had all the tangibles to get it right. Dude had all the skills just not the right mentality to get it right.

spiralism · 23-10-2011 10:34PM

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Agreed had he not turned into a fat lazy pr1ck he had all the tangibles to get it right. Dude had all the skills just not the right mentality to get it right.

And Tebow has the intangibles, he could always sort the tangibles out over time. Russell was a fat lazy unmotivated ****e, he became a lost cause before too long because he was never going to put in the effort.

im not denying that Tebow needs definite work based on today but he was able to pull the win out of his arse and I'm delighted with that... the win could do him the world of good, he'll get much needed confidence while also realising that much work was needed and he'll break his back all week in practice trying to sort it out in practice

next up Detroit at home, you'd think they would beat us but they're on a 2 week losing streak all of a sudden and Stafford is likely out... Things could be coming up roses for Tebow all of a sudden

"It was my fault we were in that position in the first place," Tebow said. "I have to play better in the first three quarters so we don't have to make that comeback." Glad to hear it Tim

Chucky the tree · 23-10-2011 10:47PM

spiralism wrote: »

And Tebow has the intangibles, he could always sort the tangibles out over time. Russell was a fat lazy unmotivated ****e, he became a lost cause before too long because he was never going to put in the effort.

im not denying that Tebow needs definite work based on today but he was able to pull the win out of his arse and I'm delighted with that... the win could do him the world of good, he'll get much needed confidence while also realising that much work was needed and he'll break his back all week in practice trying to sort it out in practice

next up Detroit at home, you'd think they would beat us but they're on a 2 week losing streak all of a sudden and Stafford is likely out... Things could be coming up roses for Tebow all of a sudden

"It was my fault we were in that position in the first place," Tebow said. "I have to play better in the first three quarters so we don't have to make that comeback." Glad to hear it Tim

He's had a year and half to improve and he's still looks terrible. It's going to take a lot more then a week in practice to sort all of his problems.

spiralism · 23-10-2011 10:52PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

He's had a year and half to improve and he's still looks terrible. It's going to take a lot more then a week in practice to sort all of his problems.

to be fair he's had about 4/5 weeks practice as starter, he'll come around

Syferus · 23-10-2011 10:56PM

If this is how a terrible looking player plays, I hope some more teams pick up other 'terrible' players because as a fan of the sport, and, y'know, being entertained, I want to see more of this.

Denver Broncos Thread

Comments