What do you plan to survive??

Grizzly 45 · 13-10-2011 3:02am #1

As there are many aspects to Survivalism whats your main concern?
Just a few ideas and concepts.Some might look far out and off the wall,but then how much did we think 20 years ago would never happen??
How do you plan to deal with it if it does happen?

TEOTWAWKI....
Nuke war,Asteroid strike,Dec21st 2012,Major super global pandemic of a contagious disease,little green men arrive from outer space and they do NOT come in peace!
IOW anything that would give Roland Emmerich a chance to make another few million with a new disaster film script.:rolleyes:

Limited TETOWAKI....
Dirty bomb or NBC attack on a major pouplation centre in the EU/UK/IRL zone.
Sellafield or Wylfa goes into Cherynobl style meltdown and there is a nice Winter East wind blowing towards Ireland.
Electro Magnetic Pulse [EMP] terrorist or Solar flare strike on the West,Local Global pandemic,End of fuel /peak oil scenario.

Financial meltdown.....
,disintergration of the EU,Global/local economic depression. Causing......

Breakdown of law and order.....
,riots,civil unrest both in Ireland,UK and EU countries,Major re flare up of Northern Ireland,possible coup de etat attempt by subversives here in Ireland,Martial law and police state Ireland,suspension of civil rights,habaeus corpus,gun confiscation,suspension of free press,TV etc.Possible invasion by a EU/UN "peace enforcement "army and Governance if Ireland was in civil war .

Big Brother....
More intrusiveness into your personal life by the EU /Irish state on differing social aspects.Mandatory biometric ID cards,how you conduct yourself online on the net,what you eat ,drink,drive ,do in your bedroom,more total surveillance to "combat crime" etc.

Natural disasters..
Floods,fires ,extreme weather conditions AKA Irish weather:rolleyes:droughts etc.

Bushcraft...
Being able to survive in the wilds for whatever reason with a knife ,a poncho and by rubbing two boy scouts together to make a fire.:D

Self Defence,
Able to survive a violent attack, robbery ,tiger kidnap etc.

Other..
Whats your fear ??

Sticky_Fingers · 13-10-2011 3:46am

What I am concerned about is the slow slide into social disorder characterised by increased crime as the economic situation disintegrates, reduced purchasing power as the state takes the peoples money not to mention the IMO very real threat of hyper inflation of the Euro or the devaluation of a refloated Punt.

Also of worry to me is the seeming convergence of a whole host of massive problems, the world economy is pretty shaky at the moment but added to this is the very real concern of peak oil just around the corner. Throw global climate change (manmade or not) into the mix and I think every single person alive on the planet is in for a terrible time in the coming years. These problems may be years/decades away but once the crisis is upon us it may be too late to prepare so I'm thinking about that now.

I don't truly subscribe to the Mad Max view of complete long term social collapse though, I just want to get through the intervening period between the "old" and "new" orders as painlessly as possible.

I have also thought about other situations that may arise, the most probable being a global flu pandemic. It has been less then a hundred years since the Spanish Flu pandemic swept the world and managed to infect 25% of the worlds population (killing 3% of the total). In 3 years it killed more people then the Black Death managed to do in 300, thats scary stuff. If such an outbreak happened today I'd expect it to be far worse given the speed at which we can now travel the globe.

slowburner · 13-10-2011 10:41am

I think we are witnessing the meltdown of a ludicrous financial system and the desire to create a more humane and sustainable one. Regardless of the forecasts of the establishment, very many people seem to be preparing themselves in one way or another for 'something'.
How does it make sense when people make money out of selling bad debt?
Don't answer, I don't care, it is nonsense.
Billions of people are suffering to line the pockets of a tiny number of financial whizz kids.
The natural order says that can't continue. Eventually, the absurdity of the situation will compel the greater number to oust the select few.
But because this cancer has become so entangled in the fabric of western civilisation it won't be possible to remove it surgically. The only solution is the reincarnation of the patient - society.
When the system breaks down, either gradually or rapidly (probably rapidly given the dependance on fossil fuel and peak oil), there will be a prolonged period of confusion and uncertainty, until a new system evolves. That is the period when survivalism could be important. I suspect it won't be in my lifetime, but then you never know, if economic meltdown happens in tandem with peak oil and the possibility of a mini ice age we could end up being busy little bees.

:pac::pac:

krissovo · 13-10-2011 10:51am

I think being a survivalist I am not targeting specific threats but preparing for any eventuality with two strategies, Defensive and Offensive. Adaptability is crucial but I have a few areas that I have completed detailed risk assessments on and incorporated these into my planning.

Here are my top contenders and ranked in MY risk order based on my local situation and my own opinion:

1; Breakdown of society - In the last couple of years society in Ireland has changed almost 180 from fairly prosperous carefree to openly targeting anyone who has taken money from the state and anyone who is earning a few pound. We are turning into a state of those who have and those who have not's and many of the have not's are looking at two generations of debt. This is a potential powder keg and recent world history shows that this can topple governments and extremists become popular and if you look further back in history events like this can kill off civilizations.

2; Water pollution - Water is generally taken for granted in this country and outbreaks of mild pollution are on the increase. Cryptosporidium is on the increase and I do not think the water authorities are dealing with this correctly add to this the farming techniques to increase productivity but will soon saturate the water table and soon our abundant most precious resource could soon start to cause harm to a large portion of our population.

3; Contamination - Primarily nuclear, whether its caused by a local meltdown in Europe or by weapons with the Korea's or India/Pakistan one thing is for sure that Ireland could be seriously contaminated.

4; Pandemic - Its not a question of "If" but "When" nature will will come up with a biblical virus that will make Spanish flu look like a common cold.

5; Natural disaster - Ireland is quite lucky but the biggest risk is flooding IMO, luckily I am 80 meters above sea level but daily life will change if there is even a small raising of sea level.

6; Zombies - You my laugh but serious planning for Zombies does cover a lot of bases (CDC) and also believe it or not people relate to zombies better than if I tell them I want the product to prepare for nuclear contamination for example.

Grizzly 45 · 13-10-2011 1:28pm

I've proably gone the gamut of the spectrum of survivalism over the years.From the 1980s of the build your own bunker/Red Dawn,the Russians are coming,nuke war situations.To desert survival when I lived in CA and AZ,urban street survival in NYC when circumstances of a family death made me live like a down and out for two weeks in the most miserable hottest Summer when I was 18.

To today.My worries would be in Ireland the increase in crime rate due to the unemployment,and the more constraints placed on the welfare state by the EU and our govt to pay for the bad decisions of their banks.And the continious squeezing of middle class people in employment to pay for the mistakes of the super rich and the lifestyles of the welfare spongers..[And I make a distinction between them and genuinely unemployed people who actually want a job.]
Which will lead to us blowing a fuse here,proably some serious rioting and civil unrest with general strikes,power outages,non functioning public transport,default on the EU loans and finally the disintergration of the EU.[TBH I personally think it wouldnt be a bad thing.]
Until we have control of our or a currency in some shape or form we are not an independant nation.We would be in for a very rough time here,like maybe a decade or so.

Couple that with the chance of a global pandemic,or another terrorist strike in the NBC or small nuke /EMP strike in a western capital.
As I travel a good bit,that is a worry,how to carry some survival kit and get back home if somthing like a pandemic or another 911 situation happens and all air travel mass transit gets locked down indefinately??

Natural disasters,well unless the Canaries finally falls off the map into the Atlantic ocean.I'm not too worried about tusnamis here or flooding even we are only 20 meters above sea level.Floods happen every year around here and thats only because of non maintence collapse of the drainage system by councils.So we are used to power outages and storms.

kildare.17hmr · 13-10-2011 5:14pm

we are very lucky in this country with regards to natural disasters, flooding is our worst and compared to other country its not too bad for the most part. i have no plans for specific situation things but more a plan that will work for alot of situations. I have a good stock of solid fuel if i need it, water and food. If we need to leave the house fine i have the tools to live wherever i have to and knowledge to do so, i am an outdoors person who hunts and hikes and could live outside quite comfortably with the family if needed.

I agree with grizzly and a big thing is the crime here, iv 4 dogs which are better than any alarm or other deterant you could have in a house

Corsendonk · 13-10-2011 6:14pm

What increase in crime rate:eek:?

kildare.17hmr · 13-10-2011 7:11pm

Corsendonk wrote: »

What increase in crime rate:eek:?

lucky you if Thats a joke! Talkin to the guards recently and they said the number of burglary's in my area has shot up in the last year. Same all over

William Powell · 13-10-2011 7:30pm

krissovo wrote: »

.....

5; Natural disaster - Ireland is quite lucky but the biggest risk is flooding IMO, luckily I am 80 meters above sea level but daily life will change if there is even a small raising of sea level.

.....

So thats me fcuked

We flood every so often as it is, if its a high tide combined with a southerly storm and its been raining hard then the water in the river can't run out to sea quick enough so we flood.

If it was really bad we'd just pull out to higher ground and have in the past had offers of the use of a house further up the valley that is only occasionally used for holiday accomadation.

For the more trivial floods we have a lot of stuff stored in plastic boxes that can just get put on top of tables, chairs, beds etc. Local knowledge (folklaw so not totally believable) has it that its flooded up as far as the windows, if that had happened the house would have washed away (no foundations).

We also expect to have the power off for long periods and to get stuck in the house so we are all setup to survive at least 14days of being stuck in the house with no power and still be very warm and comfortable.

meathstevie · 13-10-2011 7:31pm

I'd be just thinking of the more "day to day" sort of issues like water contamination, prolonged power outages, 2 inches of snow and two weeks of frost nobody over here seems to be able to cope with... .

As for crime and civil unrest etc etc, I'm not too worried. Between the Gardai, the PSNI and the Irish Army I reckon we've more than well equipped folks to deal with civil inrest. The type of folks who won't go bananas on genuine peacefull protesters but know what to do with rampaging hordes.

Corsendonk · 13-10-2011 7:35pm

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

lucky you if Thats a joke! Talkin to the guards recently and they said the number of burglary's in my area has shot up in the last year. Same all over

Every generation talks about how bad things are getting and the rising crime rate. Have you any stats or just what the garda told you? Remember it benefits a financially struggling section of the public sector to harp on about rising crime rates.

The fact is that crime and specifically violent crime has been in decline for decades. Its risen after wars were a high % of the populaton trained to kill are released back into civy street. The below paper is mainly concerned with the US but Europe is referenced too.

http://thepublicintellectual.org/2011/05/02/a-crime-puzzle/

Corsendonk · 13-10-2011 7:38pm

meathstevie wrote: »

I'd be just thinking of the more "day to day" sort of issues like water contamination, prolonged power outages, 2 inches of snow and two weeks of frost nobody over here seems to be able to cope with... .

As for crime and civil unrest etc etc, I'm not too worried. Between the Gardai, the PSNI and the Irish Army I reckon we've more than well equipped folks to deal with civil inrest. The type of folks who won't go bananas on genuine peacefull protesters but know what to do with rampaging hordes.

Totally agree

kildare.17hmr · 13-10-2011 7:41pm

no dont have any stats just what the guards told me really

Grizzly 45 · 13-10-2011 8:52pm

meathstevie wrote: »

As for crime and civil unrest etc etc, I'm not too worried. Between the Gardai, the PSNI and the Irish Army I reckon we've more than well equipped folks to deal with civil inrest. The type of folks who won't go bananas on genuine peacefull protesters but know what to do with rampaging hordes.

TBH,bar the NI sector of the PSNI/former RUC,are the only police force who in the 32 counties has had to deal with serious civil unrest,on an almost daily basis for 30 plus years.
Our lot ,not being dispraging here have had to deal with what major riot??
Apart from the Love Ulster afternoon.When was the most serious riot in Ireland?The hunger strike protests at the British embassy in the 1980s??
It is all well training for an event,but when it happens things can go horribly wrong.Do you think the Irish army will be as well liked,if say some over enthaustic kid panics and whacks somone in a crowd with a baton round and kills them??
Lets not forget that one sanctimonoius peace protestor who spends his time moaning about Shannon airports use by the US military was a former Irish army comandant who ordered his troops to fix bayonets against a peaceful protest of Irish citizens once.Second time that ever happened in the ROI historyASFIK.
Point is;we have an untried police /army who might have to deal with their own citzenry in a hostile situation who has enjoyed the good will of the Irish people,but when the chips are down and somone screws up.Will it still be there?Every country has had a civilian death in a riot in Europe,bar Ireland.How well could we handle it is going to be intresting.

Delancey · 13-10-2011 9:05pm

I would think the more extreme scenario of Nuclear War has faded somewhat ( for now ) but lest we forget that for decades it was a very real and to some , imminent threat.

Realistically I think the least unlikely occurences ( note I am not saying they are likely to happen ) are Pandemic Flu , Economic / Financial collapse with widespread public disorder as a consequence and extreme weather.

Grizzly 45 · 13-10-2011 9:07pm

Corsendonk wrote: »

Every generation talks about how bad things are getting and the rising crime rate. Have you any stats or just what the garda told you? Remember it benefits a financially struggling section of the public sector to harp on about rising crime rates.

The fact is that crime and specifically violent crime has been in decline for decades. Its risen after wars were a high % of the populaton trained to kill are released back into civy street. The below paper is mainly concerned with the US but Europe is referenced too.

http://thepublicintellectual.org/2011/05/02/a-crime-puzzle/

I'd say you will see an upsurge of it once the welfare payments start getting squeezed harder by the Govt.
The article is intresting,but it has major faults
[1] no major crime rise after the US involvemt in WW2 and Korea.

[2] The crime rise between the 1960s and the end of the century.One war that was different was Vietnam in many aspects including the rise of drug use in both society and the military.Also the rebellion against convention that started at this time too.Summer of Love,do you own thing,turn off,drop out,blow up.Not saying Rock'n Roll and Hippiedom was the total cause of it.But it seems to be part of the ingredient.If this is a true graph,then we should have an upsurge in crime post 1991 gulf war and now after the Ghanistan and Iraq conflicts as well.

coach23 · 16-10-2011 12:13pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

TBH,bar the NI sector of the PSNI/former RUC,are the only police force who in the 32 counties has had to deal with serious civil unrest,on an almost daily basis for 30 plus years.
Our lot ,not being dispraging here have had to deal with what major riot??
Apart from the Love Ulster afternoon.When was the most serious riot in Ireland?The hunger strike protests at the British embassy in the 1980s??
It is all well training for an event,but when it happens things can go horribly wrong.Do you think the Irish army will be as well liked,if say some over enthaustic kid panics and whacks somone in a crowd with a baton round and kills them??
Lets not forget that one sanctimonoius peace protestor who spends his time moaning about Shannon airports use by the US military was a former Irish army comandant who ordered his troops to fix bayonets against a peaceful protest of Irish citizens once.Second time that ever happened in the ROI historyASFIK.
Point is;we have an untried police /army who might have to deal with their own citzenry in a hostile situation who has enjoyed the good will of the Irish people,but when the chips are down and somone screws up.Will it still be there?Every country has had a civilian death in a riot in Europe,bar Ireland.How well could we handle it is going to be intresting.

I have to disagree here lad on the bold highlighted bit anyway. Gardai here deal with protests on a daily basis NOTHING like northern ireland have in july for sure but protests and the public order unit are deployed minimum once a week in dublin for various reasons and strength of numbers, the training they receive enables them to function form a single serial (single digits) to multiple units together (hundreds) just because you don't hear about it doesn't mean it isn't happening. and the fact that ireland hasn't had a civilian death in a riotous situation shoes the training they receive works, and i will insert here...so far.

The army get tested every time they deploy to kosovo leb etc. in public order situations its one of their main functions when they serve here they are well tested the fact you havent heard about anything happening means they restore normality and do it in an uncontroversial way much like the garda Public order unit

And on the love ulster riot once the public order unit was deployed control was regained rather quickly considering.

fodda · 16-10-2011 1:16pm

And to add for those who are old enough:o Nobody in the south (republic) has ever had to deal with what went on up in the North which resulted in the British troops being sent in to protect the Catholic population (largely unforgotton). Then all through the 1970's and early 1980's what happened next and all this on out tv screens night after night.

The only way to survive any of that stuff was simply to leave which is what a lot of people did because you couldn't survive it simple without a large military presence which the republic could not do by far because their army and police isnt big enough by any means. The British army in the 1970's was huge because of the situation with the USSR so could spare tens of thousands of troops for the North.

So your lesson in survival there is "Get as far away as possible and quick".

Grizzly 45 · 16-10-2011 1:49pm

coach23 wrote: »

I have to disagree here lad on the bold highlighted bit anyway. Gardai here deal with protests on a daily basis NOTHING like northern ireland have in july for sure but protests and the public order unit are deployed minimum once a week in dublin for various reasons and strength of numbers, the training they receive enables them to function form a single serial (single digits) to multiple units together (hundreds) just because you don't hear about it doesn't mean it isn't happening. and the fact that ireland hasn't had a civilian death in a riotous situation shoes the training they receive works, and i will insert here...so far.

Sorry Coach,unless you can actually name a place and location,it isnt verifiable."Just because you dont hear about it doesnt mean its not happening" .I'm sorry,but Ireland is a very small country where we report on a drunken brawl at the local chipper on a Sat night. So if the Garda public order unit are deployed on the frequency you describe,we would hear about it alot more in the media.Unless of course suggesting the media are keeping this under wraps by Garda/Govt orders??:eek:

I am not denying their training is no doubt exellent,but training and the real thing are two differnt things.[Murphy's 3rd law of combat.A well made plan survives five minutes in a firefight.].
Love Ulster was a little bit of vigourous retail combined with general hooliganary.
I would be intrested to see how it will be when they are up against somthing like the LA riots,or NI Belfast or Derry style riots in the 1970s.With a hungry desperate mob,who wont be too worried about tear gas and might shoot back!

The army get tested every time they deploy to kosovo leb etc. in public order situations its one of their main functions when they serve here they are well tested the fact you havent heard about anything happening means they restore normality and do it in an uncontroversial way much like the garda Public order unit

Indeed they do.But again names and places please...Not to mind the Irish army in those places is under the control of the future one world Govt ..The UN!! And that organisation is responsible for more genocidal deaths than Stalin!!:mad:,places like Kosovo,Sudan,Rwanda,Sebernica where UN peace keepers stood idly by as they had orders not to intervene.
So somhow I dont think our lads would be able to do much if the Serbs or Isrealis might decide to have a crack at their neighbours again for some reason.
Of course it might be a different situation back on the streets of Dublin or Cork ,once the crunch comes.After all we had the Irish army fixing bayonets twice[,or possibly more times?] in the history of the State to sort out "public dissent" didnt we??:rolleyes:

Point is..I am not talking about in normal times,where both forces I'm sure do a fine job,with the least force needed thankfully.I'm talking in future abnormal times,where both sides will be under abnormal stresses in both life and duty.With provocation on both sides.
I'm sure UKs 1st Para battalion is an abnormaly well disiplined tight unit.But on the streets of Derry in Jan 1972,all disipline,cease fire orders , command and control went out the door,when they went on a rampage costing 13 dead and 35 years of conflict in Ireland.
Can any police/army unit say they have that disipline over their men that they can say absolutely not,no way will that happen??

And on the love ulster riot once the public order unit was deployed control was regained rather quickly considering.

16hours.....Give or take.

Grizzly 45 · 16-10-2011 1:55pm

fodda wrote: »

So your lesson in survival there is "Get as far away as possible and quick".

Fact!!

Tabnabs · 16-10-2011 2:01pm

[mod] Ladies and gentlemen, the topic being discussed here is What do you plan to survive?? If you want to talk about the merits of AGS or PDF training (or any other military for that matter) then there is a suitable forum elsewhere on boards. This is a valid thread, so lets not drag it off topic. [/mod]

coach23 · 17-10-2011 6:21pm

Your right mod not to be going off topic but if one reply is allowed to clear up one thing....

Grizzly your getting me wrong here lad i'm not having a go at you at all i cant stress that enough and if i can across that i know everything that's not my intention in this forum of all forums here everyday should be a school day!, as for verification of events no guard or soldier will be able to give details of call outs for a few reasons they may be before courts, opsec, professionalism to the people they deal with and they plain old just aren't allowed give details. but every fight in a chipper isn't reported very little is actually reported in the news if it was the six one news would go on till midnight every night.

I'll leave my bit to that for the sake of the thread but will converse more on the particular subject by PM anytime

Id expect to survive economic meltdown its the only realistic option at the moment

fodda · 17-10-2011 7:16pm

coach23 wrote: »

Id expect to survive economic meltdown its the only realistic option at the moment

Mmmm we shall see. A bit apocalyptic but a bit of an eye opener just the same.....have a look at the 2 short films here on "The economic collapse part 1 & 2" http://www.grow-your-own.ie/videos.html and i think it could go that way if it ever got really bad maybe.

slowburner · 17-10-2011 8:36pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

This winter.

Grizzly 45 · 18-10-2011 1:32pm

coach23 wrote: »

Your right mod not to be going off topic but if one reply is allowed to clear up one thing....

Grizzly your getting me wrong here lad i'm not having a go at you at all i cant stress that enough and if i can across that i know everything that's not my intention in this forum of all forums here everyday should be a school day!, as for verification of events no guard or soldier will be able to give details of call outs for a few reasons they may be before courts, opsec, professionalism to the people they deal with and they plain old just aren't allowed give details. but every fight in a chipper isn't reported very little is actually reported in the news if it was the six one news would go on till midnight every night.

I'll leave my bit to that for the sake of the thread but will converse more on the particular subject by PM anytime

Id expect to survive economic meltdown its the only realistic option at the moment

Thats no problem Coach,no aoplogies or explanation needed!:)
Would that the news would go on til midday,at least then we might have some verifiable info on how bad the world is.Rather than what the PTB belive we should know!:rolleyes:
I understand perfectly Re Opsec,courts etc,but there is the old uncontrollable "scuttlebutt",leaks wiki or orherwise from any Govt body anywhere in the World.Personally I would think it would be VERY hard to keep all leaks sealed up,but to VERIFY them would be a different matter.
As we are a small country,and two things are for free here still,talk and water,and we use plenty of both,as my old Gran used to say.Somone ,somwhere would talk.

Anyways,at the moment economic meltdown,via default or the collapse of the EU is about the most imminent clear and present danger for a survival situation.Dont think it will be instantanous,as we see here on a daily basis,[watching this is like watching a multiple car wreck in slow motion].But it will happen eventually,which should give everyone enough time to prepare somwhat,by making sure they can survive somwhat a financial hit.
This can be one of the toughest to survive especially in the clusterf2k economic the World is in right now.

Hal Emmerich · 18-10-2011 3:40pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

As we are a small country,and two things are for free here still,talk and water

Talk is cheap, it's not free.

Sorry, couldn't resist.:P

eth0 · 18-10-2011 8:12pm

I don't plan for any specific disaster but survival skills are always useful to have for camping and so on. Sometimes it does seem like there is a Big Brother society impending but I hope thats just me being paranoid. Civil unrest I'm not too worried about (I'll likely be joining them :P )

Really I think everyone should have a decent backup supply of food, water, power, fuel so that as soon as the slightest thing happens not everyone is running to the government going "please save me".

slowburner · 19-10-2011 8:51am

So what are folks' thoughts on back up power in the event of.......?
We depend on electricity for so many things.

William Powell · 19-10-2011 9:58am

slowburner wrote: »

So what are folks' thoughts on back up power in the event of.......?
We depend on electricity for so many things.

If we don't flood, then plan B is survive in situ, so the house has been setup so we can live comfortably without power. We don't have central heating and heat by woodburner (and some coal in the cold spells) so apart from light we can live quite well without it. We have a Waterford Stanley cooker to cook on and heat water so worst that can happen is the water goes off as well as the electric which well it might, so I've half an idea to make a Ram Pump to pump water from the river next to us then I'll need some sort of Electicity free purification unit and we are sorted.

slowburner · 19-10-2011 10:05am

Likewise, I have central heating but rarely use it. I much prefer the heat from the stove - somehow it seems healthier and gathering firewood keeps me reasonably fit.
I confess to having a jenny though. Power outages are frequent here.
Did you ever consider drawing power from the river WP?

William Powell · 19-10-2011 10:53am

I think the answer is in my first 4 words "If we don't flood"

The river is about 4ft down from the field level atm after a couple of inches of rain in the mountains its 1ft above the field so I feel anything I construct has to be capable of surviving that. That sort of rules out running anything near the river or floating in it (logs come crashing down in full flood) so that leaves me the option of piping water down the valley to some sort of turbine and the cost of that is well beyond me. Fall isn't to great so I'd need to go well up the valley to build up some head, even a Ram Pump might be tricky, as I don't want to go daming anything and increasing the flood problem.

What do you plan to survive??

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