Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

Monty Burnz · 09-05-2011 02:48PM

I wouldn't like to comment on individual cases, but I feel that there's something wrong when we are looking at putting 23-year-olds into the academy when (admittedly, a great talent) James O'Connor has nearly 30 caps for Aus at the age of 20.

CatFromHue · 09-05-2011 03:20PM

comaparing james o connor to any other player his age is unfair. he is just that good.

how much coaching did he need before he was playing super 14 or international rugby. he is a natural

PhatPiggins · 09-05-2011 03:45PM

CatFromHue wrote: »

comaparing james o connor to any other player his age is unfair. he is just that good.

how much coaching did he need before he was playing super 14 or international rugby. he is a natural

No but highlighting that Munster are putting guys into the academy aged 23 is an excellent point and asks a few serious questions

profitius · 09-05-2011 03:57PM

Questions must be asked but we've been asking the same questions for years.

I don't mind seeing 23 year old props in the academy but thats all. Maybe Liam Og Murphy missed out because he was in the USA for a while?

Cpt_Blackbeard · 09-05-2011 04:37PM

Its not ideal that players coming into their mid-twenties are only getting academy contracts but, at least that it means that the branch is actively looking for talent in the AIL. Was there not talk recently that development contracts were being phased out or something? It would explain why academy contracts are being offered rather than development, as it would be too big a risk to sign a player on a full contract straight out of the AIL.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 09-05-2011 04:53PM

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Its not ideal that players coming into their mid-twenties are only getting academy contracts but, at least that it means that the branch is actively looking for talent in the AIL. Was there not talk recently that development contracts were being phased out or something? It would explain why academy contracts are being offered rather than development, as it would be too big a risk to sign a player on a full contract straight out of the AIL.

I think they got rid of that plan when the IRFU brought in the rules for next season allowing only 2 fully contracted played in an AIL team. That said development contracts don't count.

Getting rid of development contracts would hurt AIL teams too much.

JustinDee · 09-05-2011 05:52PM

CatFromHue wrote: »

comaparing james o connor to any other player his age is unfair. he is just that good.

how much coaching did he need before he was playing super 14 or international rugby. he is a natural

Natural yes, but O'Connor, like Giteau, Beale, Elsom and Ashley-Cooper are originally from Rugby League academies and fringe squads.

Amazotheamazing · 09-05-2011 07:39PM

Liam Og Murphy is originally from Ennis so he probably didn't play much schools, might have just come across to Munchins for senior cup. He then had two bad injuries, iirc.

I don't see much AIL, but I know a lot of cookies fans think he's a class player, think he was crucial in their promotion from division 2 a few seasons back.

PhatPiggins · 09-05-2011 10:14PM

JustinDee wrote: »

Natural yes, but O'Connor, like Giteau, Beale, Elsom and Ashley-Cooper are originally from Rugby League academies and fringe squads.

Point?

LuckyGent88 · 09-05-2011 10:40PM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Liam Og Murphy is originally from Ennis so he probably didn't play much schools, might have just come across to Munchins for senior cup. He then had two bad injuries, iirc.

I don't see much AIL, but I know a lot of cookies fans think he's a class player, think he was crucial in their promotion from division 2 a few seasons back.

Yep Liam Og is a townie

By saying there is little schools rugby in Ennis is completely correct even though Ennis rugby club has produced an awful lot of good young players in recent years. 2 years ag they had 5 members of the u18 interpro team. This is where a problem exists for the development of underage players in Munster, only Limerick,Cork and Tipp have schools that play schools rugby i think and the province needs to develop counties like Clare,Waterford and Kerry where im sur talent is getting wasted.

Monty Burnz · 09-05-2011 10:48PM

LuckyGent88 wrote: »

This is where a problem exists for the development of underage players in Munster, only Limerick,Cork and Tipp have schools that play schools rugby i think and the province needs to develop counties like Clare,Waterford and Kerry where im sur talent is getting wasted.

And I'd argue that schools are in some regards much more important than clubs for young players. We used to be told in school that we were the closest thing to professional players at the time, training 2 or 3 times a week with games at the weekend. This was pre-professionalism.

I don't know if clubs have the same access to young players and the time to spend on drills and whatnot that develop the basic skills.

LuckyGent88 · 09-05-2011 10:53PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

And I'd argue that schools are in some regards much more important than clubs for young players. We used to be told in school that we were the closest thing to professional players at the time, training 2 or 3 times a week with games at the weekend. This was pre-professionalism.
I don't know if clubs have the same access to young players and the time to spend on drills and whatnot that develop the basic skills.

All those 5 lads that were on the interpro team went to a famous secondry scholl but wouldnt agree to start up a rugby team even though they actually had serious players. That where the Munster branch needs to step up its efforts if it is to compete with the level of development in Leinster's school's rugby and academy.

JustinDee · 10-05-2011 07:07AM

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Point?

Its where their skills were developed and where they were scouted from. Aussie rugby union is lucky that it has another code of rugby to chuck money at.

profitius · 10-05-2011 09:38AM

LuckyGent88 wrote: »

This is where a problem exists for the development of underage players in Munster, only Limerick,Cork and Tipp have schools that play schools rugby i think and the province needs to develop counties like Clare,Waterford and Kerry where im sur talent is getting wasted.

Indeed. Most of county Cork and Tipp (not sure about Limerick) students have no access to schools either.

The most important area is the area where most kids play the game. Thats clubs I'd say although I'm not sure. Its up to Munster to help the clubs along and tap into the talent there. Waterparkfor example are a well run club that has kids of all ages playing.

But not enough is being done. I know somebody from East Cork who tells me the new secondary school in the town has hundreds of boys and is right next to a rugby club but rugby is not taken very seriously there. He reckons the development officer is not doing his job.

ormond lad · 10-05-2011 09:45AM

LuckyGent88 wrote: »

Yep Liam Og is a townie By saying there is little schools rugby in Ennis is completely correct even though Ennis rugby club has produced an awful lot of good young players in recent years. 2 years ag they had 5 members of the u18 interpro team. This is where a problem exists for the development of underage players in Munster, only Limerick,Cork and Tipp have schools that play schools rugby i think and the province needs to develop counties like Clare,Waterford and Kerry where im sur talent is getting wasted.

Monty Burnz wrote: »

And I'd argue that schools are in some regards much more important than clubs for young players. We used to be told in school that we were the closest thing to professional players at the time, training 2 or 3 times a week with games at the weekend. This was pre-professionalism.
I don't know if clubs have the same access to young players and the time to spend on drills and whatnot that develop the basic skills.

LuckyGent88 wrote: »

All those 5 lads that were on the interpro team went to a famous secondry scholl but wouldnt agree to start up a rugby team even though they actually had serious players. That where the Munster branch needs to step up its efforts if it is to compete with the level of development in Leinster's school's rugby and academy.

To compete aginst the schools, the pan munster competition at 17s and 19s has to improve and it is year on year.
MontyBurnz yes schools do have more access to players but how many schools in munster will spend 3-4 sessions on rugby every week, not a huge amount. Most schools will concentrate on gaa. That is why development of the clubs game is so important. Tralee could barely field a team at u19 level this year due to pressure from gaa so what do you think schools in the town will do?

There is plenty of talent in waterford and there will soon be some waterford lads in the academy as waterpark won the munster 17s and 19s double for the 2nd season in a row. The finals this year were in thomond park and there was plenty of people involved with the munster branch impressed with the standard of rugby on display that day
From experience the places where schools players have a clear advantage over clubs players is fitness and discipline.
Ive played club games against limerick teams predominantly made up of schools players and the main reasons we were beaten was because by 50 minutes the fitness of the schools lads who train 4-5 times a week began to show. We usually were as skillful or more skillful than the schools team

Amazotheamazing · 10-05-2011 10:23AM

Munster really need to get schools involved in areas where's there's strong rugby clubs.

So, Ennis, North Tipp (Nenagh), somewhere else in South Tipp, Waterford, Tralee?

Would love to see another strong school in Cork city too.

If, in 10 years time, each of those areas had a strong rugby school in addition to what's already there, Munster rugby would be far, far healthier.

ormond lad · 10-05-2011 10:33AM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Munster really need to get schools involved in areas where's there's strong rugby clubs.

So, Ennis, North Tipp (Nenagh), somewhere else in South Tipp, Waterford, Tralee?

Would love to see another strong school in Cork city too.

If, in 10 years time, each of those areas had a strong rugby school in addition to what's already there, Munster rugby would be far, far healthier.

Nenagh cbs started playing rugby for the first time in 9 -10 years last season. An u15 team won a munster 7s title beating all the A schools in the process and won it again this year except didnt play any of the A schools who played in a seperate section to the B/C schools
No matter how strong Nenagh CBS gets at rugby harty cup hurling will rule in the school and resources will go towards that.
While it would be great if these areas did have A rugby standard schools it is not going to happen maybe except for waterford and the resources that would go into the schools to improve rugby would be much better utilised if they went to the clubs in those areas.
Cork City will never have another A standard school, Pres and Christians have too much of a stronglehold on the city, the resources would be much better spent on getting another few clubs to compete against the likes of highfield and sundays well at youths rugby

Monty Burnz · 10-05-2011 11:42AM

ormond lad wrote: »

Cork City will never have another A standard school, Pres and Christians have too much of a stronglehold on the city, the resources would be much better spent on getting another few clubs to compete against the likes of highfield and sundays well at youths rugby

There's no reason why another school couldn't start playing the game, even if it took some years to get up to standard. Castletroy did it in Limerick. The key driver would probably be the demand from parents and pupils, and the availability of coaching staff and the demands of other games would be limiting factors.

ormond lad · 10-05-2011 12:05PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

There's no reason why another school couldn't start playing the game, even if it took some years to get up to standard. Castletroy did it in Limerick. The key driver would probably be the demand from parents and pupils, and the availability of coaching staff and the demands of other games would be limiting factors.

I agree that there should be another A school in cork but its not going to happen, CBC and PBC have too much of a hold on lads playing in cork, how many good rugby players at 15/16 move to both schools for the leaving to play SC.
Rugby would benefit in cork much more if clubs like cork con and dolphin entered competitive teams in the pan munster 19s and 17s leagues, how corks 2 AIL 1A clubs dont field teams that compete in the main south munster leagues is pathetic but dolphin and cork con would much rather field teams in development leagues or not field at all and wait for lads to come from around the country for college in cork and lads to come out of the 2 big schools then look for new players to the game to compete underage.

Cpt_Blackbeard · 10-05-2011 12:51PM

Bit of good news about Fla.

Jerry Flannery is back running again but bitter experience has taught him to take nothing for granted as he looks ahead to the World Cup. He spoke to Hugh Farrelly

By Hugh Farrelly

Tuesday May 10 2011

Irish club rugby is frequently referenced when charting the provincial and national successes of the last 12 years, but University College Cork rarely merits a mention.

Yet, UCC could have a significant role to play in Ireland's World Cup assault in four months' time. Their European Students' Cup success of 1999 tends to be lost in the euphoria that surrounded Ulster's Heineken Cup triumph later the same day but the side that landed College's first significant title since the Munster Senior Cup in 1981 was a seriously talented outfit.

While the majority of names will be familiar only to keen students of the AIL, four of that team could be playing at the World Cup. Tight-head Mike Ross is certainly one, while Mick O'Driscoll and Peter Stringer are well in the frame. Jerry Flannery is the fourth and, if fit and firing, would be a guaranteed starter at hooker.

However, after more than a year of injury setbacks -- two curtailed appearances off the bench for Munster this season and the last of his 36 caps for Ireland against France in 2010 -- guarantees are hard to come by.

Preparation

Not the best preparation, but one fact is indisputable -- Ireland's World Cup efforts would be strengthened considerably by Flannery's presence. He is the best all-round hooker available to Declan Kidney, with a proven record of performance under pressure. Now, with the clock ticking, it is a question of putting this injury to bed.

Without going into laborious medical detail, Flannery has had a fasciotomy -- surgery to counter the effects of compartment syndrome in his leg -- and now the hope is that he has enough time to be at full tilt come September.

In this regard, last Saturday was a good time to talk to Flannery. He had just come through his first session of proper running after completing three weeks' work in the country's only anti-gravity chamber in Belfast and, though fatigued, was happy with the outcome.

"I'm still feeling a bit crook," said Flannery. "I ran pretty hard today -- it's not an intensity thing, I could do a load of sprints and then literally just be trotting across the field and it will go.

"It's been difficult to work out the exact nature of the problem, is it a multitude of things or one? If the compartment syndrome has been the crux of the problem then that's sorted now, they are pretty positive. If everything goes okay, I should be back.

"It's been hard, very difficult last week, particularly. Harlequins at home in a European semi-final, a packed Thomond Park, beautiful day, Bank Holiday weekend, what more could you want? It was tough to watch, you just want to be out there.

"We have a psychologist in the squad, Gerry Hussey, he's a good fella. You talk about the mental challenges, and you set yourself mini-goals. The key is that you have a sense of progressing.

"There is an initial period of 'mourning'... you get p****d off but you have to realise that it's natural to feel that way and then say, 'okay, I have to move past this.' Then, every time you do something like, for me, finishing the anti-gravity work in Belfast, you go, 'right, that's one stage down, time to move onto the next one'."

Munster's loss to Harlequins in the Challenge Cup left the whole province feeling down, but Friday's win over Connacht helped and the carrot of a Magners League title creates the prospect of a positive end to the season.

Flannery believes the younger members of the squad will have a huge say in how Munster kick on from here.

"We need to try not to concentrate on all the negatives. You listen to what people are saying around the city and pick up the papers and read about 'Munster's demise' and you say, 'hang on a second, we have got a semi-final and a final here which can turn around the whole way Munster are going to look at this season.'

"We have so many young players coming through. I look at that 2009 Leinster team that beat us at Croke Park and how their whole squad seemed to grow in belief from there. Munster have a lot of older lads who have experienced a lot of that (success) and we all have to ask ourselves have we still got the same hunger?

"People make a big deal about the age profile -- and it is important -- but the younger guys can be the lifeblood of the team. Fellas like Mike Sherry, (Ian) Nagle and (Conor) Murray. Peter O'Mahony is another guy I would rate quite highly and (Simon) Zebo is an unpolished diamond."

As for Ireland, Flannery is reluctant to say too much, given his own situation and the memories of 2007.

"You understand why I am very, very hesitant to give any kind of overwhelmingly confident statement heading to the World Cup. First of all, I have to get fit to play rugby and then there's what happened the last time. We went to the World Cup... Celtic Tiger... pumped up to go and do it and we came back scalded, with our tail between our legs, not for lack of effort, just 'what the hell happened there?'

"But when you've had both sides and know how bad it feels when you are down, it will stand to you. Ireland have a good blend but nothing is taken for granted - no-one is entitled to anything."

Just as no-one is entitled to assume the former UCC boy will be back in time. However, anyone wishing to see Ireland do well is entitled to hope.

Irish Independent

profitius · 10-05-2011 01:20PM

Would it be fair to say that Munster should have a new A school every year? Or at least a new club or school every year.

Monty Burnz · 10-05-2011 03:13PM

profitius wrote: »

Would it be fair to say that Munster should have a new A school every year? Or at least a new club or school every year.

That would be great - but how do they drive it? How do they get schools to take up the game? They can't force it really.

profitius · 10-05-2011 03:54PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

That would be great - but how do they drive it? How do they get schools to take up the game? They can't force it really.

People get paid to solve those sorts of problems. They could start by going to the school\club and talk to them about it. If they get more involved in clubs kids will more likely join.

Many schools are still very much GAA schools but after a decade of rugby in the news and with all the new fans there has to be loads of schools willing to give rugby a go.

Maybe they need to put in more resources into growing the game.

ormond lad · 10-05-2011 04:19PM

profitius wrote: »

Would it be fair to say that Munster should have a new A school every year? Or at least a new club or school every year.

Monty Burnz wrote: »

That would be great - but how do they drive it? How do they get schools to take up the game? They can't force it really.

No profitus, plenty of schools could become A schools but it would take at least 7-8 years with 7-8 teachers involved in teams as well as outside coaches and help from branch development officers. Resources would be better spent on the clubs in those areas

Castletroy rose to become an A school so fast because the majority of their players played rugby regularly with clubs like bohs etc and the help of coaches who had played AIL like john keehan who had played for nenagh in AIL 3 and john staunton who had played for garryowen in AIL 1 and james collins a former munster schools captain.
They won the senior cup in their 3rd year competing at senior level after winning several o brien cups which waterpark college won for 3rd time in a row this year.

No school will ever rise to A status in such short a time period again except maybe somewhere like waterpark college
In gaa mad schools the best way to get rugby played is to start slow with teams from the school entered in 7 or 10 a side competitions and build it up slowly

Monty Burnz · 10-05-2011 04:24PM

ormond lad wrote: »

In gaa mad schools the best way to get rugby played is to start slow with teams from the school entered in 7 or 10 a side competitions and build it up slowly

The best way would be to break in during the night and replace all their balls with rugby balls.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 10-05-2011 04:32PM

ormond lad wrote: »

In gaa mad schools the best way to get rugby played is to start slow with teams from the school entered in 7 or 10 a side competitions and build it up slowly

I definitely think that 7s could provide a platform the introduction of the sport into non traditional schools

ormond lad · 12-05-2011 03:13PM

munsterrugby.ie
CIT Home To Cork Based Squad
12 May 2011, 3:35 pm
By The Editor
Cork Institute of Technology (CIT) has signed a licensing agreement with Munster Rugby which will see the Cork based members of the professional Munster squad and academy headquartered at CIT's Elite Gym on its Bishopstown Campus.
The four-year agreement will see Munster utilising the sports and ancillary services at CIT. Squad members and Coaching Staff will be based at CIT’s Elite Gym which includes a 625sq meter gym area along with video analysis rooms, squad meeting rooms, physio treatment rooms, dressing rooms, offices & recreation area. Squad sessions will be held on a dedicated training pitch as well as the use of all CIT’s sporting facilities such as the athletics track.
Part of the cooperation agreement between CIT and Munster Rugby will also see academic development and research into training equipment, as well as strength and conditioning on the Sports Engineering side.
CIT will also cooperate with Munster staff and players facilitating enrolment in CIT and further learning.
Dr Barry O’Connor Registrar and Vice President for Academic Affairs said that he was delighted that CIT and Munster Rugby had created this linkage. “The growth and success of Munster over the past number of years has been one of Ireland’s greatest achievements and so we are very pleased that the Cork based squad members and staff will be utilizing the world class facilities we have here at CIT. All of our sporting facilities are located here on our campus which is fantastic for our staff and students.
We are confident that this agreement will be beneficial to both sides in terms of making a contribution to the success of Munster and in helping CIT continue to attract the best students from around the country. Munster squad members will also be able to benefit from CIT’s business/enterprise focussed programmes combined with accessible and flexible delivery mechanisms.”
Tony McGahan Director of Rugby, said, “Munster Rugby are very pleased to be associated with CIT. The quality of the facilities at the campus consolidates both the professional & academy operations in Cork and will I know show benefit over time in the quality of player development. We are also enthused with the possibilities for cooperation in research projects and the academic opportunities made available.”
CIT’s Elite Gym is fully kitted out for the purpose of Team & Athlete Training in Strength and Conditioning and is available for CIT Sports Clubs and CIT Sports Bursary Recipients.

profitius · 12-05-2011 06:10PM

Bryce Cavanagh Munster's new strength and conditioning coach

Munster's preparations for next season are already well under way with the news that Bryce Cavanagh will take over as strength and conditioning coach.

The Australian native, who should be officially confirmed next month, joins the province from AFL outfit Sydney Swans, where he held a similar role. He will replace Paul Darbyshire.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/in-brief-bryce-cavanagh-munsters-new-strength-and-conditioning-coach-2644556.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoWYFsihLjc

Cpt_Blackbeard · 12-05-2011 06:21PM

profitius wrote: »

Bryce Cavanagh Munster's new strength and conditioning coach

Munster's preparations for next season are already well under way with the news that Bryce Cavanagh will take over as strength and conditioning coach.

The Australian native, who should be officially confirmed next month, joins the province from AFL outfit Sydney Swans, where he held a similar role. He will replace Paul Darbyshire.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/in-brief-bryce-cavanagh-munsters-new-strength-and-conditioning-coach-2644556.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoWYFsihLjc

Exactly what a group of underpowered youngsters needs, the strength and conditioning coach of a woman's non-contact sport... :rolleyes:

profitius · 12-05-2011 07:00PM

Rumours on MFs is that Dave Kearney is joining Munster. Havn't a clue whether its true or not.

Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

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