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Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

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Comments

  • #2582
    Risteard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,698 ✭✭✭Risteard


    Whatever happens on Friday I, and I would hope that most others, won't boo Munster off the pitch. Even if they were, I doubt that would count for much in the IRFU. Munster's job, from the viewpoint of the IRFU, is to develop players for the national team. Having a team of about 7 or 8 NIQs goes against that, plus it would paper over the underlying issues that are present. Signing loads of players won't sort out our issues with our back play or with bringing players up to speed.

    Plus I would not like it if our team was to be made up of more non-Munster players than Munster, which if we don't start bringing through players looks to be a possibility with NIQs and Jones and Keatley appearing to be solutions to be two positions.


  • #2583
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,468 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    If Munster are booed off the pitch on Friday (a bad loss to Connacht could lead to this)

    just as long as they dont boo the kicker:p

    it would also be fairly awkward for the home semi they'll have the week later and the possible home final two weeks after that


  • #2584
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    Risteard wrote: »
    Whatever happens on Friday I, and I would hope that most others, won't boo Munster off the pitch. Even if they were, I doubt that would count for much in the IRFU. Munster's job, from the viewpoint of the IRFU, is to develop players for the national team. Having a team of about 7 or 8 NIQs goes against that, plus it would paper over the underlying issues that are present. Signing loads of players won't sort out our issues with our back play or with bringing players up to speed.

    Plus I would not like it if our team was to be made up of more non-Munster players than Munster, which if we don't start bringing through players looks to be a possibility with NIQs and Jones and Keatley appearing to be solutions to be two positions.

    Oddly enough, I agree with you. i think we're three or so seasons away from having a homegrown top team again. It's a question of what we'll have to go through to get there though.


  • #2585
    ambid
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,591 ✭✭✭ambid


    Risteard wrote: »
    Whatever happens on Friday I, and I would hope that most others, won't boo Munster off the pitch...

    "...boo Munster off the pitch"? Is that a realistic possibility?

    Only an utter moron would boo this Munster team. They have achieved so much over the past ten years that they deserve respect from all fans. It would be disgusting were that to happen.


  • #2586
    Anthonyk2010
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 295 ✭✭Anthonyk2010


    Risteard wrote: »
    Whatever happens on Friday I, and I would hope that most others, won't boo Munster off the pitch. Even if they were, I doubt that would count for much in the IRFU. Munster's job, from the viewpoint of the IRFU, is to develop players for the national team. Having a team of about 7 or 8 NIQs goes against that, plus it would paper over the underlying issues that are present. Signing loads of players won't sort out our issues with our back play or with bringing players up to speed.

    Plus I would not like it if our team was to be made up of more non-Munster players than Munster, which if we don't start bringing through players looks to be a possibility with NIQs and Jones and Keatley appearing to be solutions to be two positions.

    Would agree totally with you, I could never imagine munster fans booing the team off.

    We might be getting bad preformances but no lack of effort on saturday
    (as bad as they were)


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  • #2587
    Clementine Helpless Scalpel
    Posts: 24,798 ✭✭✭✭ Clementine Helpless Scalpel


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    Not as much as you think. It's not going to be a straight forward "we have x amount of money, what will that buy us?" but more like "what will we need to spend to make Munster competitive?". The IRFU will cover the extra cost, if it has to, if it gains in the long run.

    Money isn't going to be the reason Munster don't buy someone, nor with the NIQ status. They'll weigh up the merits of the cost of another unsuccessful season for Munster vs. the cost of a few players to make Munster successful.

    At the end of the day the IRFU can't operate without money. It really can be that simple.

    If currently Munster have the biggest squad of the four provinces, at a cost of €whatever a year, they won't be permitted to add big name signings & wage bills until that changes.

    The IRFU has seen quite straightforwardly that Academies are most important things for provincial development. Look at Ulster and Leinster's growth as a result of their academies' progress. Realistically, every € spent on an academy is investment, every € spent on a player is current expenditure only.

    If you want Munster back at the top, you've got to push the team up from the bottom. That means that faith has to be shown to the academy and youth systems, and not having players coming in and playing for 3 years, stunting the development of the younger guys and then effing off and leaving the exact same hole.

    Fix the academy and more importantly use the academy, and Munster will be a superpower again. Load the team with Jerry Collins / Yannick Jauzions, and see them gain parity for a small period of time, its a band aid over a gaping wound though.

    At the moment, if I was an 18 year old rugby magician in Ireland, I wouldn't even dream of going to join the Munster academy, I'd head north or east to Leinster, were their academies have shown that they can bring players into professional and competitive teams.

    Short term pain, long term gain.


  • #2588
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    Anthonyk2010 wrote: »

    We might be getting bad preformances but no lack of effort on saturday
    (as bad as they were)

    No lack of effort? Seriously? That first half merited the players having their wages docked.


  • #2589
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    Deleted User wrote: »
    At the end of the day the IRFU can't operate without money. It really can be that simple.

    If currently Munster have the biggest squad of the four provinces, at a cost of €whatever a year, they won't be permitted to add big name signings & wage bills until that changes.

    The IRFU has seen quite straightforwardly that Academies are most important things for provincial development. Look at Ulster and Leinster's growth as a result of their academies' progress. Realistically, every € spent on an academy is investment, every € spent on a player is current expenditure only.

    If you want Munster back at the top, you've got to push the team up from the bottom. That means that faith has to be shown to the academy and youth systems, and not having players coming in and playing for 3 years, stunting the development of the younger guys and then effing off and leaving the exact same hole.

    Fix the academy and more importantly use the academy, and Munster will be a superpower again. Load the team with Jerry Collins / Yannick Jauzions, and see them gain parity for a small period of time, its a band aid over a gaping wound though.

    At the moment, if I was an 18 year old rugby magician in Ireland, I wouldn't even dream of going to join the Munster academy, I'd head north or east to Leinster, were their academies have shown that they can bring players into professional and competitive teams.

    Short term pain, long term gain.

    I don't disagree with any of that but even if the Academy is fixed, and it's possible it's been fixed already with guys like Sherry and Murray coming through, it's still a big ask for the kids to carry the team.

    Ulster are loaded with SA players, Leinster have signed plenty of old pros like Hines, Wright, Reddan, Ross etc.


  • #2590
    Clementine Helpless Scalpel
    Posts: 24,798 ✭✭✭✭ Clementine Helpless Scalpel


    That's a problem that cannot be solved without pain. It was lack of planning 3 years ago to allow no players be filtered into the main squad then.

    The only thing that can be done now is to take that bitter pill of potentially having no silverware for the next 2-3 seasons. I have in the past, and will do again, compare Munster now, to Ulster of 5 seasons ago. They were only 2/3 seasons from being super competitive in all competitions, and were in a serious position of transition. They took the bitter pill, brought players in where they were needed badly, cut the dead weight from the team, and gave the younger guys some gametime and opportunities.

    Quite a few gambles didn't pay off, there's plenty of Jamie Smith's for every Stephen Ferris, but you'll never ever find out about them unless you give them a chance.


  • #2591
    Anthonyk2010
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 295 ✭✭Anthonyk2010


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    No lack of effort? Seriously? That first half merited the players having their wages docked.

    wages docked? bit much. I'd dock tony mcg wage for the way he prepared the team.


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  • #2592
    sock puppet
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭sock puppet


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    I don't disagree with any of that but even if the Academy is fixed, and it's possible it's been fixed already with guys like Sherry and Murray coming through, it's still a big ask for the kids to carry the team.

    Ulster are loaded with SA players, Leinster have signed plenty of old pros like Hines, Wright, Reddan, Ross etc.

    I don't see why Ulster's recruits all being the same nationality changes anything. NIQs are NIQs whether you have 3 Saffers or a Saffer, an Aussie and a Kiwi. Leinster have recruited a good few Irish players from elsewhere but then so has everyone else.


  • #2593
    Clementine Helpless Scalpel
    Posts: 24,798 ✭✭✭✭ Clementine Helpless Scalpel


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    Ulster are loaded with SA players, Leinster have signed plenty of old pros like Hines, Wright, Reddan, Ross etc.

    Ulster have the same amount of NIQs as Munster, regardless of their nationality - Ridiculous argument and I'm sick of hearing it.
    Leinster have less

    Hines and Wright both have more than 4 years of Leinster experience under their belts, and using Hines there is an excellent example to think about, apparently he wasn't permitted to stay on for the next season based on the fact that he wouldn't be able to continue on for very much longer. Wright is also gone this season.

    Reddan and Ross are both Irish players, who've when signed for Leinster would easily be able to commit for more than 4 seasons each.


  • #2594
    Clementine Helpless Scalpel
    Posts: 24,798 ✭✭✭✭ Clementine Helpless Scalpel


    What's the story with these players? Would appreciate if someone could highlight leavers / retirements.

    2010-2011
    Stephen Archer
    Danny Barnes
    Peter Borlase
    Tony Buckley
    Paddy Butler
    James Coughlan
    Declan Cusack
    Scott Deasy
    Ivan Dineen
    Ian Dowling
    Wian du Preez
    Keith Earls
    Jerry Flannery
    Denis Fogarty
    Dave Foley
    Tom Gleeson
    John Hayes
    Billy Holland
    Marcus Horan
    Doug Howlett
    Darragh Hurley
    Denis Hurley
    Felix Jones
    Denis Leamy
    Lifeimi Mafi
    Barry Murphy
    Johne Murphy
    Ian Nagle
    Donncha O'Callaghan
    Paul O'Connell
    Tommy O'Donnell
    Mick O'Driscoll
    Ronan O'Gara
    Tomas O'Leary
    Peter O'Mahony
    Alan Quinlan
    Niall Ronan
    Dave Ryan
    Donnacha Ryan
    Peter Stringer
    Sam Tuitupou
    Damien Varley
    David Wallace
    Paul Warwick
    Duncan Williams


  • #2595
    Risteard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,698 ✭✭✭Risteard


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What's the story with these players? Would appreciate if someone could highlight leavers / retirements.

    2010-2011
    Stephen Archer - Presume he's on a contract, not listed as academy and looking to be our No.2 TH next year at this stage
    Danny Barnes
    Peter Borlase
    Tony Buckley
    Paddy Butler - Development contract I believe
    James Coughlan Contract until end of 2012/2013
    Declan Cusack one year extension
    Scott Deasy - Contract extension
    Ivan Dineen
    Ian Dowling
    Wian du Preez
    Keith Earls
    Jerry Flannery
    Denis Fogarty
    Dave Foley - Signed Contract Extension
    Tom Gleeson
    John Hayes
    Billy Holland
    Marcus Horan
    Doug Howlett
    Darragh Hurley - Contract Extension
    Denis Hurley
    Felix Jones
    Denis Leamy
    Lifeimi Mafi
    Barry Murphy
    Johne Murphy
    Ian Nagle - Contract Extension
    Donncha O'Callaghan
    Paul O'Connell
    Tommy O'Donnell
    Mick O'Driscoll One year extension
    Ronan O'Gara
    Tomas O'Leary
    Peter O'Mahony - contract extension
    Alan Quinlan
    Niall Ronan
    Dave Ryan
    Donnacha Ryan
    Peter Stringer
    Sam Tuitupou
    Damien Varley
    David Wallace
    Paul Warwick
    Duncan Williams

    Bolded signed contract extensions, added to Murray, Sherry and Zebo who're leaving the academy and have signed contracts AFAIK.

    Bolded Red are players that I suspect will be leaving though there's no confirmation.

    Blue I'm unsure as to their position next year.


  • #2596
    Clementine Helpless Scalpel
    Posts: 24,798 ✭✭✭✭ Clementine Helpless Scalpel


    Harsh as it sounds, a wholly uninspiring squad.

    Truth be told, there's an awful lot of dead weight, and surplus players there. Too many average backups that aren't used no matter what. (And more importantly, aren't going to get any better or younger!)

    Cut a few of these guys, push them to other clubs for better opportunities and development, and take some of the younger guys out and get them playing regularly alongside that old guard.

    The team will be completely different in 5 years time, no better time to start working towards it than now.


  • #2597
    profitius
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,976 ✭✭✭profitius


    Deleted User wrote: »
    At the end of the day the IRFU can't operate without money. It really can be that simple.

    If currently Munster have the biggest squad of the four provinces, at a cost of €whatever a year, they won't be permitted to add big name signings & wage bills until that changes.

    The IRFU has seen quite straightforwardly that Academies are most important things for provincial development. Look at Ulster and Leinster's growth as a result of their academies' progress. Realistically, every € spent on an academy is investment, every € spent on a player is current expenditure only.

    If you want Munster back at the top, you've got to push the team up from the bottom. That means that faith has to be shown to the academy and youth systems, and not having players coming in and playing for 3 years, stunting the development of the younger guys and then effing off and leaving the exact same hole.

    Fix the academy and more importantly use the academy, and Munster will be a superpower again. Load the team with Jerry Collins / Yannick Jauzions, and see them gain parity for a small period of time, its a band aid over a gaping wound though.

    At the moment, if I was an 18 year old rugby magician in Ireland, I wouldn't even dream of going to join the Munster academy, I'd head north or east to Leinster, were their academies have shown that they can bring players into professional and competitive teams.

    Short term pain, long term gain.

    +1

    Munster is like somebody in denial. To move on, the person has to accept the new reality. The reality for Munster is the current setup is not good enough and there needs to be changes. The sooner they accept it the sooner they'll be a force again.

    Its a waste of resources having a big squad when some doesn't play at all throughout the season. I'd cut the squad to about 35 players and use academy players and development players if needed.

    There are good players coming through so things are not all bad.


  • #2598
    donfers
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,006 ✭✭✭donfers


    the way people are talking you'd think the post about change was recommending about 7 or 8 mercenary players a la toulon, one of the points in that post asked for 2-3 international class players, there is space for one niq player aswell when warwick leaves, all this stuff about a huge squad is not entirely true either, a lot are leaving at the end of the season and a lot of those listed are development/academy players

    so say they sign a world class centre, for example if jdv comes back and for the back row someone like john muldoon or rhys ruddock (i said someone like them, these are two examples, please do not focus on the likelihood of either of these 2 signing, they are examples of quality players at other provinces who might be better of coming to munster and are of a high standard)

    most of the points in the post asking for mcg to go are fair enough

    removes the cosy old boys cartel too as was said, too many guys there whose only qualification seems to be that they uses to play for munster

    oh and just to do away with a few of the myths

    - munster have finally given some kids a chance this season and the talent is there, certainly the likes of murray, jones, zebo and nagle look very promising to name just four, there are also the likes of pom, butler and jj hanrahan who will probably come through too, as I said plenty of young talent there and with some older heads like quinlan and hayes on their way and the world cup on the horizon they'll get even more chances

    - with 8-9 players on their way out there will be money there to get a few in

    - things are not as bleak as some are making out, as if we have to play a load of kids for the next 5 years before we win anything again, utter nonsense, it's all about balance, yes don't sign 6 mercenary players but don't throw in a load of kids at the same time either, the nuts and bolts of a good team are still there, one bad defeat does not overnight mean half the squad should be jettisoned, let's not forget these players have won 18 out of 21 in their league competition (and are already assured of topping that league) and all their home games in the heineken cup

    so let's put things in perspective, yes the coaching staff should have a few changes, yes the talented cream of the crop kids should be given more chances and yes as a lot of players are leaving they should sign 2-3 top quality players but no it's not the end of an era and no munster won't be a nothing experimental team for the next 5 years as we wait for kids to get experience, a few wise tweaks here and there and they'll be as competitive as they ever were


  • #2599
    Clementine Helpless Scalpel
    Posts: 24,798 ✭✭✭✭ Clementine Helpless Scalpel


    @donfers, I'm not arsed finding the post, but I reckon I posted the exact same thing 12 months ago.

    It didn't matter how this season finished, the same would be true. Munster have failed to develop a squad.

    The only way to rectify this is to start building a squad. I don't think that there's a whole lot to it btw;
    - Cut the lads who are past it.
    - Cut anyone over the age of 28 that you couldn't start in a HEC semi final next week if you needed to.
    - Promote the younger lads and have them get gametime and experience alongside the established pros before it is too late.
    - Bingo

    A telling post and discussion was a few months ago when I unearthed a post of "Munster's up and coming" youngsters from 18months previous.

    None of them had started more than 3 games for Munster in that 18 month period, yet their names are still on the "up and coming" list.

    Also, re:not being so bleak that you'll have to play kids. In terms of professional rugby, a "kid" is an inexperienced player. In the next 2/3 seasons, Munster are going to lose about players with ~1000 caps between them. Who will take their slots? Guys who've played maybe 1000 minutes between them. Compare Leinster's squad and team that is being proposed to play in the ML vs Glasgow against a team of Munster's "not first choice", and see how they fare in terms of experience, gametime, and age.


  • #2600
    ambid
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,591 ✭✭✭ambid


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Harsh as it sounds, a wholly uninspiring squad.

    Truth be told, there's an awful lot of dead weight, and surplus players there. Too many average backups that aren't used no matter what. (And more importantly, aren't going to get any better or younger!)

    Cut a few of these guys, push them to other clubs for better opportunities and development, and take some of the younger guys out and get them playing regularly alongside that old guard.

    The team will be completely different in 5 years time, no better time to start working towards it than now.

    Preaching the tough love Emmet? You're probably right.

    Still Munster have been brilliant in the Magners and were probably hard done by in the team of the year. A good back rower or two and a good centre or two should fix most of the immediate problems you've identified I think.

    I do agree with your earlier post that the answer has to lie in the academy rather than in big signings. However it's tough to think of really good signings Munster have made recently to equal Nacewa or Wannaberg, and I suspect that's also part of the problem. I wonder will Keatley develop into a test quality fly half.

    Despite the gloom over Munster, a grand final with them would still be a titanic struggle.


  • #2601
    profitius
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,976 ✭✭✭profitius


    ambid wrote: »
    Despite the gloom over Munster, a grand final with them would still be a titanic struggle.

    But would it? They'd have to hope Leinster have an off day.


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  • #2602
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,468 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    if both munster and leinster make it to the magners final and its in limerick id have munster as favourites.

    leinster would have had the heineken cup final the week previously. munster would have had the extra week to train specifically for leinster.

    munster beat leinster the last time they met in thomond. last season leinster won by a point. the games down there are very tight.

    munster aren't as bad as people are making them out to be.

    poc will more than likely start.

    this time its personal.


  • #2603
    ambid
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,591 ✭✭✭ambid


    profitius wrote: »
    But would it? They'd have to hope Leinster have an off day.

    You think so? I see where you're coming from as their inability to score tries against Leinster is a big problem. Still I think it'd be a 50/50 call, especially in Thomond.


  • #2604
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,595 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    I decided to see if I could name a team from 1-15 of players who aren't good enough for Munster and are blocking players with potential who could be HEC starters. These should be let go this offseason. I only failed because I couldn't find a poor 10 that is blocking someone younger

    That said I don't think the replacement options for some of these players (the centers) are patricularly good options and I will admit that I cheated by naming some players who have already announced their retirement

    Horan
    Fogarty
    Hayes
    MOD
    D Ryan
    Holland
    Ronan
    Quinlan
    Williams

    B Murphy
    Gleeson
    Tuitipupou
    Mafi
    Hurley


  • #2605
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    Munster have made more of an effort this year to blood new players.

    For example

    Darragh Hurley has 2 starts and 7 subs
    Archer had 3 starts and 4 sub appearances
    Borlase has 4 starts and 3 subs

    Ian Nagle 9 starts 1 sub
    Dave Foley 1 start 1 sub

    O'Donnell 5 starts 7 subs
    O'Mahony 2 starts 7 subs (was injured)
    Butler 1 start 1 sub

    Williams 4 starts 6 sub (injured)

    Cusack 2 starts 1 sub (injured)
    Deasy 6 starts 6 subs

    Dineen 1 start 2 subs
    Barnes 1 start 3 subs (injured)

    Jones 8 starts (injured)

    As well as Sherry, Henry, Hayes, Murray and Zebo (Academy profiles don't show games)


  • #2606
    Clementine Helpless Scalpel
    Posts: 24,798 ✭✭✭✭ Clementine Helpless Scalpel


    Thread dated 19-6-09

    Post #2
    thomond2006 wrote: »
    There's a ****load of Munster talent coming through.

    Tommy O'Donnell
    Felix Jones (he's ours now :D)
    Ian Nagle
    Billy Holland
    Tim Ryan (gone to Toulon :()
    Dave Ryan
    Donncha Ryan
    Ciaran O' Boyle
    Andrew Burke
    Conor Murray

    .................to name a few

    Bolded players have seen gametime this season, but nothing considerable (Jones Excluded as he is first choice 15 imo). Murray being the only one who's played in the competitive fixtures in place of a more senior player who was available for selection.

    5 and 6 games in a season is no time whatsoever btw.


  • #2607
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Thread dated 19-6-09

    Post #2

    Bolded players have seen gametime this season, but nothing considerable (Jones Excluded as he is first choice 15 imo). Murray being the only one who's played in the competitive fixtures in place of a more senior player who was available for selection.

    5 and 6 games in a season is no time whatsoever btw.

    Sherry's been ahead of Fogs too.


  • #2608
    Clementine Helpless Scalpel
    Posts: 24,798 ✭✭✭✭ Clementine Helpless Scalpel


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    I decided to see if I could name a team from 1-15 of players who aren't good enough for Munster and are blocking players with potential who could be HEC starters. These should be let go this offseason. I only failed because I couldn't find a poor 10 that is blocking someone younger

    That said I don't think the replacement options for some of these players (the centers) are patricularly good options and I will admit that I cheated by naming some players who have already announced their retirement

    Horan
    Fogarty
    Hayes
    MOD
    D Ryan
    Holland
    Ronan
    Quinlan
    Williams

    B Murphy
    Gleeson
    Tuitipupou
    Mafi
    Hurley

    Nail on head bar MOD. Best 2nd row in Munster this season. Good enough to start HEC games and always pulls it out of the bag in a Munster Jersey. Personally think he's one of the most impressive limited players I've ever seen. He's bizarre, so much about him seems bad and wrong and ill fitting, but he's so ridiculously consistent and an excellent leader.

    However, if you are looking forward, he is certainly filling boots that he shouldn't be. It's poor planning to have 3 second rows all in and around the same age, blocking youth from getting experience. I think he'll be used extensively during the WC if he doesn't travel, basically as team captain too.


  • #2609
    Leroy Lita
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 605 ✭✭✭Leroy Lita


    nick mallett to Munster?? Yay or nay?


  • #2610
    Leroy Lita
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 605 ✭✭✭Leroy Lita


    Munster should use the Magners games next year in order to give game time to younger players. forget about trying to come 1st in the table. as long as we blood younger players next year then il be happy


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  • #2611
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,595 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    Williams is 4th choice SH for a reason and only really blocks Murray getting more game time

    compare your list to Leinster this season
    Ruddock 13+6
    Ryan 14+8
    Madigan 6+9
    McKinley 3+1
    Kearney 7+4
    Conway 6+2
    JHW 3+10
    Sheridan 2+1

    Apart from JHW and D Kearney (who are 23 and 22) all of the above are 21 or younger

    Williams recently went 25, Daragh Hurley is also 25, O Donnell will be 24 this month


This discussion has been closed.
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