Off topic discussion about God/Islam/Questions...

ADGOBE · 07-03-2011 09:07AM

iBumblebeetuna wrote: »

WRONG! Judges 1:19 - And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron

Im a muslim

dead one · 07-03-2011 09:34AM

ShooterSF wrote: »

Do you reject the flying spaghetti monster as the one true god?
Have you even read the gospel of the flying spaghetti monster before rejecting it?

Do you really think that the argument which you are using as escape route will provide u the mean to avoid God. Why you don't ask to yourself

07-03-2011 09:42AM

ADGOBE wrote: »

Finally he also challenged the devil(shaitan)to try to mislead his creations to prove that we arent the greatest of Gods creation.

That's a pretty sh!tty thing to do

If my parents had laid bets with their friends to try and tell me lies and bring me up as a bad person, all while never actually parenting me in person, I'd have been taken off them for child abuse

Dades · 07-03-2011 09:51AM

dead one wrote: »

Look Friend, You said atheists don't believe in any gods. Its your choice, who grant you this choice that is God.

Actual belief is not a choice. I couldn't believe in your God even if I wanted to, in the same way I couldn't believe in the catholic God or any other god who's existence is based on tales made up by desert people 1000's of years ago.

Mark Hamill · 07-03-2011 10:58AM

dead one wrote: »

Well, my friend you are not going to understand easy and plain language why you consider that you will understand if my god could make a universal language to translate term. Isn't it irony. I am just clearing your confusing i am not forcing you, That you don't have to dig holes, or plain mountains to become Muslims. You have to just admit there is God and who tells us about that God i.e his messenger like, Muhammad, Jesus, Moses, Abraham and Muhammad is last messenger. If you admit it than you will muslim as you r thinking that to become muslim you have to fight with someone or to kill someone. The magic and language which God created speaks, why not test it

I have no idea what your point is here, you seem to be all over the place in your efforts to not address the point at hand. Lets try a simpler way, some direct questions:
Is god limited in some way that he couldn't make a magic language that is automatically understood by all?
Is god limited in some way that he couldn't use straightforward language in his book, in order to avoid problems in translation?
Is god limited in some way that he couldn't make it that everyone speaks the same language?

dead one wrote: »

Ask to yourself who created you. Suppose yourself says in answer, "Your parents" than ask who created the first man on earth. Isn't it confusion in your mind. Isn't it your ego which makes you superior. You are everything, don't look at other people, how they train you, how they behave you

This question will always boil back to where did the universe come from. That question is being delved into in several threads at this moment. the current scientific consensus is that the universe "began" with the big bang (its still going on, you could say) and that we cant say much at all about "before", because our notions of causality and creation dont necessarily apply to a situation with no space/time.

dead one wrote: »

That is i already explain it you, No one tells who created God unless you believe in God's words. The confusion remains in your mind unless you admit it that there is God who has no beginning and ending. Same example you believe Clock has creator but you don't believe that the complex clock of your body is created by someone for some purpose so that he can test whether you give correct time or not.

So in order to answer the question of who created the creator, you first need to believe in a creator that has no beginning and no end? Why cant the universe have no beginning and no end?

ShooterSF · 07-03-2011 11:06AM

dead one wrote: »

Do you really think that the argument which you are using as escape route will provide u the mean to avoid God. Why you don't ask to yourself

Do you know how annoying someone answering a simple question with another question is? :pac:

Mark Hamill · 07-03-2011 11:06AM

ADGOBE wrote: »

Because God needs to separate the true, sincere, good msulims from the bad muslims who do not love God but only seek heaven.

God only needs to do that because he feels like it, not because of some need pressing on him that he cant control (otherwise he wouldn't be god). Besides, by letting people now about him, even in this weak way of using the quran, he has still tempted people to simply be try to be good muslims simply to get into heaven. Its hard to be truly good when the prize is eternal paradise, it kind of colours your objectivity.

ADGOBE wrote: »

and God cannot let humans truely be human if every single time a person had a dark temtation he just popped into the dudes head or whatever and say you cant do that.

This has always interested me, because it begs the question of what happens when you get into heaven. Do all your human feelings and temptations just disappear? What does that mean for your humanity?

ADGOBE wrote: »

Finally he also challenged the devil(shaitan)to try to mislead his creations to prove that we arent the greatest of Gods creation.

Seeing as there are more non mulsims than muslims, does mean the devil is winning?
Is every non mulsim mislead by the devil? If so, then why are these poor individuals punished? The devil, while weaker than god, is surely more powerful than us humans?

ADGOBE · 07-03-2011 02:00PM

Mark Hamill wrote: »

God only needs to do that because he feels like it, not because of some need pressing on him that he cant control (otherwise he wouldn't be god). Besides, by letting people now about him, even in this weak way of using the quran, he has still tempted people to simply be try to be good muslims simply to get into heaven. Its hard to be truly good when the prize is eternal paradise, it kind of colours your objectivity.

God does feel like it otherwise he might no have felt like making humans in the first place. Why would God make a universe and a million species to fill just to leave them there to do there thing. Allah isn't simple everything he creates is beautiful therefore the language he uses is also poetic and beautiful. A muslim is not striving to attain heaven, he is striving to be a good person. Allah can the sincere good people from the people only seeking reward. The reward is only meant as an afterthought

Mark Hamill · 07-03-2011 02:45PM

ADGOBE wrote: »

God does feel like it otherwise he might no have felt like making humans in the first place.

False dichotomy. There are a million other things god could have felt like, It wasn't a choice between the two.

ADGOBE wrote: »

Why would God make a universe and a million species to fill just to leave them there to do there thing.

Why would god make a universe with a million species to fill it but only consider one of them important (only humans go to heaven)? Why would god make a universe with a million species to fill it and then demand, under pain of hell, that they worship him?

ADGOBE wrote: »

Allah isn't simple everything he creates is beautiful therefore the language he uses is also poetic and beautiful.

Poetic and beautiful is subjective. Subjective is not useful, not when you are trying to tell the humans you have that you have made them and why its so important that they believe in you. This is why we have so many different religions, they are all too subjective. If god understood the first thing about his creation, he would have realised all the pain and suffering his "poetic and beautiful" language was going to cause.

ADGOBE wrote: »

A muslim is not striving to attain heaven, he is striving to be a good person. Allah can the sincere good people from the people only seeking reward. The reward is only meant as an afterthought

By bringing in heaven, you inevitably skew peoples motivations. Especially as its not only heaven that is offered, hell is threatened too. People will inevitably loose objectivity when you bring in such absolutes and this will lead to people doing horrible things because they were tricked into them by others using their fear of hell or of not getting into heaven. A crude way of putting this is in asking do you think suicide bombers would be as willing to follow through if they didn't believe in the 72 virgins in heaven afterwards?

ADGOBE · 07-03-2011 04:12PM

Am I God.

Mark Hamill wrote: »

NO

THen how would i know gods motivations

GO_Bear · 07-03-2011 04:19PM

ADGOBE wrote: »

Am I God.

THen how would i know gods motivations

To me, it seems you are pretty sure about this beings intentions and reasoning

Mark Hamill · 07-03-2011 04:42PM

ADGOBE wrote: »

Am I God.

THen how would i know gods motivations

I never claimed to know about gods motivations, you are the one who offered a false dichotomy.

dead one · 07-03-2011 06:30PM

Dades wrote: »

Actual belief is not a choice. I couldn't believe in your God even if I wanted to, in the same way I couldn't believe in the catholic God or any other god who's existence is based on tales made up by desert people 1000's of years ago.

When you said belief is not a choice it leads discussion to free will.Are human able to make any free choices at all? God is accountable for all choices and actions.One fact of human being is the characteristic to look beyond one's customs and ask questions "WHY". Why this happen, Why i do this, Why i should believe in it etc. So every belief has some reason / choice behind it. No one believe anything without consideration, Suppose i am giving you example, I ask Mr A to believe in God. Mr A replied, Why i should believe in God. It is choice of Mr A not to believe in God. If i provide him enough proof about the existence of God than he chooses to believe in God. Take another Example Jews believe Ezra (Pbuh) as son of God it is their choice but infact Quran tells us Ezra was messenger of Allah. Now after reading this message still you believe Ezra as messenger of Allah it is your choice and God hadn't imposed any restriction upon you. Christian are happy with their set of belief, Jews are happy with their, Atheist are with their. So God will judge between you in the day of Resurrection concerning whether you believe in God or not.

2.113. The Jews say the Christians have nothing (from God) to be based on, and the Christians say the Jews have nothing (from God) to be based on; yet they (both) recite the Book. So, too, those who have no knowledge (from God) say the like of their word. God will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning what they have been disputing.

I couldn't believe in your God even if I wanted to, in the same way I couldn't believe in the catholic God or any other god who's existence is based on tales made up by desert people 1000's of years ago.

It is your choice,
You r atheist or agnostic as per your choice. A christian believes Jesus is Son of God as per his choice. A muslim believe Jesus is messenger of Allah as per his choice. I know many atheists and christian have accepted Islam as per their choice. So you can't say. Actual belief is not choice, If that is true than why christians chooses to accept islam.

Mark Hamill · 07-03-2011 07:19PM

dead one wrote: »

When you said belief is not a choice it leads discussion to free will. Are human able to make any free choices at all? God is accountable for all choices and actions.One fact of human being is the characteristic to look beyond one's customs and ask questions "WHY". Why this happen, Why i do this, Why i should believe in it etc. So every belief has some reason / choice behind it.

That is not the same as choosing to believe. think of it like this: while I can choose what foods I eat, I dont choose what foods I like the taste of. I can choose what arguments to hear out, but I cant choose what to believe.

dead one wrote: »

No one believe anything without consideration, Suppose i am giving you example, I ask Mr A to believe in God. Mr A replied, Why i should believe in God. It is choice of Mr A not to believe in God. If i provide him enough proof about the existence of God than he chooses to believe in God.

Mr A didn't choose, he was convinced. Incidentally, even when asking why he should believe in god, Mr A wasn't making a choice or being convinced, he was asking for reasons in order to be convinced one way or another.

dead one wrote: »

Take another Example Jews believe Ezra (Pbuh) as son of God it is their choice but infact Quran tells us Ezra was messenger of Allah. Now after reading this message still you believe Ezra as messenger of Allah it is your choice and God hadn't imposed any restriction upon you. Christian are happy with their set of belief, Jews are happy with their, Atheist are with their. So God will judge between you in the day of Resurrection concerning whether you believe in God or not.

You said that "God is accountable for all choices and actions", so why does god judge us for something that he, ultimately, is responsible for.

dead one wrote: »

It is your choice,
You r atheist or agnostic as per your choice. A christian believes Jesus is Son of God as per his choice. A muslim believe Jesus is messenger of Allah as per his choice. I know many atheists and christian have accepted Islam as per their choice. So you can't say. Actual belief is not choice, If that is true than why christians chooses to accept islam.

They didn't, thats the point. They dont choose to accept islam, they are convinced of it. You dont choose belief, you only choose to act on it.

dead one · 08-03-2011 04:45AM

Mark Hamill wrote: »

I have no idea what your point is here, you seem to be all over the place in your efforts to not address the point at hand. Lets try a simpler way, some direct questions:

My question is simple i.e. if you are not going to believe in God in local language how you could believe him universal language which is sure a myth. As no one understand what is universal language

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Is god limited in some way that he couldn't make a magic language that is automatically understood by all?book, in order to avoid problems in translation?
Is god limited in some way that he couldn't make it that everyone speaks the same language?

Nah! Friend God isn't limited, your thinking is limited because if God's children understand universal language than it is sure he would revealed himself in universal language. But as matter of fact, he chooses to revealed himself to the people in a manner so they could easily understand him. You are challenging God by saying he could make this, he could make that but infact you don't know what is wisdom behind this. Because he is creator and you r creation. Suppose i invent a robot. What i know about my robot no other will know. So God created this world what he knows, you don't know

Mark Hamill wrote: »

This question will always boil back to where did the universe come from. That question is being delved into in several threads at this moment. the current scientific consensus is that the universe "began" with the big bang (its still going on, you could say) and that we cant say much at all about "before", because our notions of causality and creation dont necessarily apply to a situation with no space/time.

were you present there when this so called big bang happened?, or you have seen it with your eyes. You are believing in an unseen scientific fact / accident . Many atheists also believe life on earth was an accident. It is their believe because they are not eye witness. So people believe in unseen accident which has become a religion i.e evolution. It is easy for them to believe in an unseen accident but very difficult to believe in God which is pure science. What an irony

Mark Hamill wrote: »

So in order to answer the question of who created the creator, you first need to believe in a creator that has no beginning and no end? Why cant the universe have no beginning and no end?

You have no source to answer this question. My source is knowledge that is word of God. You are talking on your own behalf. I am talking on behalf of God's words. Have you ever wonder, suppose i ask you to tell what is happening in house no xyz situated in city xyz, xyz street in United kingdom. You will not answer it because limitedness in your knowdgle. Same theory applies here You have tall words but that tall words as based on small wisdom which is related to you life experience etc.

dead one · 08-03-2011 04:57AM

bluewolf wrote: »

That's a pretty sh!tty:eek: thing to do

Sister wolf.
Woa! What is this, A sister using such a fool language i can't imagine. What is this, evolution of language or evolution of mind. Woman is very beautiful and pious relation in form of mothers, sisters, wives, daughters etc. Don't degrade this relation by using such language. I hope no one will tell what i am telling. I even wonder Mark had thanked her post why because he believes in his own man made morality and customs.

WOMAN

The picture that this world presents
From woman gets its tints and scents'
She is the lyre that can impart
Pathos and warmth to human heart.

Her handful clay is superior far
To Pleiades that so higher are
For every man with knowledge vast,
Like gem out of her cask is cast.

Like Plato can. not hold discourse.
Nor can with thunderous voice declaim
But Plato was a spark that broke
From her fire that blazed like flame.

dead one · 08-03-2011 04:59AM

ShooterSF wrote: »

Do you know how annoying someone answering a simple question with another question is? :pac:

What i can do if you have already exposed yourself that you have not made your mind to listen what i am saying.

08-03-2011 09:16AM

Don't tell me what language to use

I'm not here to look pretty to amuse you

The Mad Hatter · 08-03-2011 09:31AM

Seriously, guys, how can you even read this? I have literally no idea what this guy is saying.

Dades · 08-03-2011 09:56AM

dead one wrote: »

It is your choice,
You r atheist or agnostic as per your choice. A christian believes Jesus is Son of God as per his choice. A muslim believe Jesus is messenger of Allah as per his choice. I know many atheists and christian have accepted Islam as per their choice. So you can't say. Actual belief is not choice, If that is true than why christians chooses to accept islam.

Answer me this: as a Muslim, could you choose to believe in Sikhism?

08-03-2011 10:13AM

Dades wrote: »

Answer me this: as a Muslim, could you choose to believe in Sikhism?

lol we should merge this with the homosexuality thread, same arguments...

dead one · 08-03-2011 10:32AM

bluewolf wrote: »

Don't tell me what language to use
I'm not here to look pretty to amuse you

Woman aren't for amusement but they are very pious relation if form of mothers, sisters, daughters etc. There are thousand of woman around to "amuse" But i choose "way of respect". That is language of Respect. Language and words become thoughts, so use them wisely. Why i am telling this because of respect!. It's not only you, i said the same words thousand of sisters like you. i am sorry if you are being hurt. If hurting is only cause to correct than i will do.

Dades wrote:

Answer me this: as a Muslim, could you choose to believe in Sikhism?

It's my choice not to believe in Sikhism, Because Head of Sikhism i.e Goro Nanak, he didn't call himself "Sikh" rather he preached love and oneness of God. It's people who created and choose sikhism for them. The very thing which i am clearing to the people, the only religion which is originated with God is Islam. All Prophet preached same religion but it's people who have chooses different religion for them. So God send his last messenger for guidance of mankind. I can only choose sikhism if it is from God.

The Mad Hatter · 08-03-2011 11:03AM

dead one wrote: »

Woman aren't for amusement but they are very pious relation if form of mothers, sisters, daughters etc. There are thousand of woman around to "amuse" But i choose "way of respect". That is language of Respect. Language and words become thoughts, so use them wisely. Why i am telling this because of respect!. It's not only you, i said the same words thousand of sisters like you. i am sorry if you are being hurt. If hurting is only cause to correct than i will do.

08-03-2011 11:21AM

dead one wrote: »

Woman aren't for amusement but they are very pious relation if form of mothers, sisters, daughters etc. There are thousand of woman around to "amuse" But i choose "way of respect". That is language of Respect. Language and words become thoughts, so use them wisely. Why i am telling this because of respect!. It's not only you, i said the same words thousand of sisters like you. i am sorry if you are being hurt. If hurting is only cause to correct than i will do.

.

Why on earth should I listen to someone who tells me what language I should use just because "Woman is very beautiful".
It's ridiculous and sexist and condescending. It has nothing to do with respect.
"Look pretty and talk pretty" is not respect so don't start trying to make it sound like it is respectful.

Mark Hamill · 08-03-2011 11:21AM

dead one wrote: »

My question is simple i.e. if you are not going to believe in God in local language how you could believe him universal language which is sure a myth. As no one understand what is universal language

You are using human limits (humans dont know of a universal langauge) to say god couldn't come up with one. Its a bit silly to say that god couldn't do something ebcause humans cant.

dead one wrote: »

Nah! Friend God isn't limited, your thinking is limited because if God's children understand universal language than it is sure he would revealed himself in universal language. But as matter of fact, he chooses to revealed himself to the people in a manner so they could easily understand him. You are challenging God by saying he could make this, he could make that but infact you don't know what is wisdom behind this. Because he is creator and you r creation. Suppose i invent a robot. What i know about my robot no other will know. So God created this world what he knows, you don't know

Yeah, this is just meandering nonsense. "God could, but he doesn't because he already did...mysterious ways... "

dead one wrote: »

were you present there when this so called big bang happened?, or you have seen it with your eyes. You are believing in an unseen scientific fact / accident . Many atheists also believe life on earth was an accident. It is their believe because they are not eye witness. So people believe in unseen accident which has become a religion i.e evolution. It is easy for them to believe in an unseen accident but very difficult to believe in God which is pure science. What an irony

What's ironic is that someone who clearly doesn't know anything about science in general is telling others what science is. Where you an eye witness to god creating the universe?

dead one wrote: »

You have no source to answer this question. My source is knowledge that is word of God. You are talking on your own behalf. I am talking on behalf of God's words. Have you ever wonder, suppose i ask you to tell what is happening in house no xyz situated in city xyz, xyz street in United kingdom. You will not answer it because limitedness in your knowdgle. Same theory applies here You have tall words but that tall words as based on small wisdom which is related to you life experience etc.

Stop stalling and answer my question: why cant the universe have no beginning and end? Its a simple question, if my words truly dont have source and yours come from god, then you should be able to answer it.

dead one · 08-03-2011 11:41AM

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

GO_Bear · 08-03-2011 11:50AM

But Hair is beautiful on woman

08-03-2011 11:51AM

Oh picture thread now is it

Dades · 08-03-2011 12:50PM

dead one wrote:

Dades wrote:

Answer me this: as a Muslim, could you choose to believe in Sikhism?

It's my choice not to believe in Sikhism, Because Head of Sikhism i.e Goro Nanak, he didn't call himself "Sikh" rather he preached love and oneness of God. It's people who created and choose sikhism for them. The very thing which i am clearing to the people, the only religion which is originated with God is Islam. All Prophet preached same religion but it's people who have chooses different religion for them. So God send his last messenger for guidance of mankind. I can only choose sikhism if it is from God.

So no, then.

Likewise, I can't choose Islam for various reasons, most of which involve it being obviously made up.

gbee · 08-03-2011 12:55PM

GO_Bear wrote: »

But Hair is beautiful on woman

Yes it is but it's seen as a seduction for men too.

In a relationship the woman wears long hair at first, she settles down and cuts her hair. Psychologically, this is reinforcing her commitment to her man but some men go looking for affairs and in all cases the woman he beds has long hair.

Off topic discussion about God/Islam/Questions...

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