thinking of building a slatted shed

small famer · 15-02-2011 02:53AM #1

Have dry stock at the moment, but thinking of getting into Sucklers, say 20 cows, thus 20 calfs, thus another 20 weanlings.......maybe selling off the weanlings, but gauging myself to keep all stock to beef......

What size tank(s)
What design of shed?

3 or 4 bay? single or double design? size of slats, and pins and what stocking density can each pin hold.......

pakalasa · 15-02-2011 10:18AM

To get you started, here is a copy of the department spec on Buildings;
http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/...loads/S123.pdf

Should be other links of interest here also;
http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/farmer...ionspdfformat/

barryoc1 · 15-02-2011 10:39AM

You should get an agricultural advisor to discuss this with you. They would have done the calculations before and be familiar with them and come up with a size handy enough. Once you know the size of the tank decide on the shed design. If you are good with figures you will be able do the calcs based on the post above cause all the necessary info is all in there.

Kilmac1 · 15-02-2011 06:50PM

have you considered putting mats in?

david1992 · 16-02-2011 10:09PM

Keep away from advisers (savage dear), 4 bay single with a creep at the back, 14'6" slat, just get a good contractor and they will design it for you, mats are a good job

cattle man · 16-02-2011 10:38PM

get the advisory they have have some great designs and will be able the plan what is best for your yard and your system:)

Kilmac1 · 16-02-2011 10:50PM

easyfix are reasonably price and very good quality, we got slat mats off them as well very good job. i can give you contact details if you want them

reilig · 17-02-2011 11:09AM

small famer wrote: »

Have dry stock at the moment, but thinking of getting into Sucklers, say 20 cows, thus 20 calfs, thus another 20 weanlings.......maybe selling off the weanlings, but gauging myself to keep all stock to beef......

What size tank(s)
What design of shed?

3 or 4 bay? single or double design? size of slats, and pins and what stocking density can each pin hold.......

Based on personal experience and practices i'll give you some of my stocking figures. 14ft 6" slat over tank x 16ft wide pens with cubicles behind and creep areas behind that = 5 cows and 5 calves per pen. That's the equivalent of a standard 4 bay slatted shed that you would need for them.

I keep weinlings on slats with mats and don't have cubicles - it works quite well and they stay fairly clean if you have the pen full enough. In a standard 15ft 6" barrier there is space for approximately 9 weinlings to eat. Any more and the smaller animals are restricted wit the amount of feed that they get. 8 or 9 weinlings weighing from 180kg to 350kg would be the average per pen. Any less and your animals won't be as clean as they could be.

Double slatted sheds are a thing of the past IMO. They restrict airflow. They get warm and animals get sick in them. A slatted shed should be designed so that the air temperature in it is the same as the air temperature outside it. Animals have hair on them to keep them warm. They just need a roof over their head to keep them dry. So in desiging your shed I would advise that you ensure that your shed is as open as possible. Animals don't die from cold, they die from being too hot and sweating - which causes pnumonia. Ventilated sheets or spaced sheeting should also be used to allow air flow through calf creep areas.

Forget about wasting money on advisors. They know whats written in books but many have no idea of the practicalities of sheds. The best advise you will get will be free from your neighbours who already have slatted sheds. They will tell you what works and what doesn't and will be best placed to advise you on shed design.

Figerty · 17-02-2011 11:53AM

Watch out for the Easy Fix sales rep. He is a bit of a shark. He made promises to me and didn't live up to it after they were delivered.

Be careful with them.

Kilmac1 wrote: »

easyfix are reasonably price and very good quality, we got slat mats off them as well very good job. i can give you contact details if you want them

Figerty · 17-02-2011 12:11PM

I can scan and send you the drawings of the shed I did if you want.

I have about half your stock. So you could double the length of the shed. I have an open front shed and in three years I haven't had one case of pneumonia mainly due to the ventilation I think.

Plus feeding is easier, A couple of neighbours build double sheds and didn't leave enough room in the passage way for a bale either side and room for the tractor to go down them middle.. An extra to feet would have sorted it.

small famer wrote: »

Have dry stock at the moment, but thinking of getting into Sucklers, say 20 cows, thus 20 calfs, thus another 20 weanlings.......maybe selling off the weanlings, but gauging myself to keep all stock to beef......

What size tank(s)
What design of shed?

3 or 4 bay? single or double design? size of slats, and pins and what stocking density can each pin hold.......

leoch · 17-02-2011 02:01PM

kilmac u sound like a n agent for the mats wouldi be right sam

Kilmac1 · 17-02-2011 02:05PM

nope im not leoch. Small dairy and beef farmer in Limerick

blue5000 · 17-02-2011 02:11PM

Shop around for slats etc, I built in 09 and there was a huge variation in price, went for croom concrete in the end.

There could be lots of re-bars, roofing and timber left in builders yards too that are slow to move. Good luck with it.

Tora Bora · 17-02-2011 02:15PM

Kilmac1 wrote: »

nope im not leoch. Small dairy and beef farmer in Limerick

I did one pen with mats. Before the cows calved I got a fit to open the gate going back into the creep area.
I put no straw on it, just bare concrete. Most of the cows go back to the creep to lie down:rolleyes: Particularly at night, when the lie for longer spells.

That said, now they are locked into the slats, I'd say the mats are a help to them.

Kilmac1 · 17-02-2011 02:17PM

We built ours in 09 aswell and we priced around mcgraths were the cheapest for concrete and creagh concrete were the best for slats. croom concrete buy their cattle slats off creagh concrete.

Pharaoh1 · 17-02-2011 04:58PM

small famer wrote: »

Have dry stock at the moment, but thinking of getting into Sucklers, say 20 cows, thus 20 calfs, thus another 20 weanlings.......maybe selling off the weanlings, but gauging myself to keep all stock to beef......

What size tank(s)
What design of shed?

3 or 4 bay? single or double design? size of slats, and pins and what stocking density can each pin hold.......

I've thought about doing something like this in the past but when I sat down with advisor to do the figures they didn't stack up in so far as there wouldn't be the additional profit in the enterprise to pay for the investment over say 5-7 years.
Just interested to know if things have changed much in the last year or two and if it might be time to look at it again?

kboc · 17-02-2011 07:18PM

Pharaoh1 wrote: »

I've thought about doing something like this in the past but when I sat down with advisor to do the figures they didn't stack up in so far as there wouldn't be the additional profit in the enterprise to pay for the investment over say 5-7 years.
Just interested to know if things have changed much in the last year or two and if it might be time to look at it again?

Of course there is no profit to justify such oulay on capital, not enough money for your commodity to justify concrete (in probably the most competitive country in the world for concrete) and steel.

I am in the same position as you, it was suggested to me on this website about out wintering pads. They are a no brainer, went to visit one, simple and brilliant.

I think the age old Irish attitude is in the way here, this is the way it was always done.

I have looked at this objectively, from the point of view of my pocket and animal welfare. It all points in one direction, even more so if they get rid of SFP!!!!

Take care

Figerty · 17-02-2011 07:28PM

As a neighbour of mine once said after he built a slatted shed..

Everyday is a holdiay now!

BeeDI · 17-02-2011 08:09PM

Investment in a good shed, without going mad on the cost is something you will never regret, as long as you have the means to pay for it. Even if it means using off farm income to subside it.
Looking at the financial pay back from one single angle might mean it is simply not financially justifiable.
But think of your own comfort and welfare on bad winter evenings and nights and mornings.
I found this fall that I was able to house and keep my weanlings over the winter, not because I wanted to, but because prices in the fall were bad, and I had a shed to keep them.
Sold 12 of them last Tuesday in ennis. Easily made over €2.4k more than they would have last October. Feed cost was a fraction of that.
Farming does not follow the straight line calculations much favoured by some accounts and advisors.
That's my twopence worth anyway.

irishh_bob · 17-02-2011 08:50PM

reilig wrote: »

Based on personal experience and practices i'll give you some of my stocking figures. 14ft 6" slat over tank x 16ft wide pens with cubicles behind and creep areas behind that = 5 cows and 5 calves per pen. That's the equivalent of a standard 4 bay slatted shed that you would need for them.

I keep weinlings on slats with mats and don't have cubicles - it works quite well and they stay fairly clean if you have the pen full enough. In a standard 15ft 6" barrier there is space for approximately 9 weinlings to eat. Any more and the smaller animals are restricted wit the amount of feed that they get. 8 or 9 weinlings weighing from 180kg to 350kg would be the average per pen. Any less and your animals won't be as clean as they could be.

Double slatted sheds are a thing of the past IMO. They restrict airflow. They get warm and animals get sick in them. A slatted shed should be designed so that the air temperature in it is the same as the air temperature outside it. Animals have hair on them to keep them warm. They just need a roof over their head to keep them dry. So in desiging your shed I would advise that you ensure that your shed is as open as possible. Animals don't die from cold, they die from being too hot and sweating - which causes pnumonia. Ventilated sheets or spaced sheeting should also be used to allow air flow through calf creep areas.

Forget about wasting money on advisors. They know whats written in books but many have no idea of the practicalities of sheds. The best advise you will get will be free from your neighbours who already have slatted sheds. They will tell you what works and what doesn't and will be best placed to advise you on shed design.

how do the calves get from their ( creep ) area at the back of the cubicles to the cows , do you have to leave out one cubicle bed and in its place a door way of sorts

irishh_bob · 17-02-2011 08:54PM

kboc wrote: »

Of course there is no profit to justify such oulay on capital, not enough money for your commodity to justify concrete (in probably the most competitive country in the world for concrete) and steel.

I am in the same position as you, it was suggested to me on this website about out wintering pads. They are a no brainer, went to visit one, simple and brilliant.

I think the age old Irish attitude is in the way here, this is the way it was always done.

I have looked at this objectively, from the point of view of my pocket and animal welfare. It all points in one direction, even more so if they get rid of SFP!!!!

Take care

read todays farmers journal , when jack kennedy is having second thoughts about wintering pads , you know their is somethign wrong

jeff greene · 17-02-2011 08:59PM

irishh_bob wrote: »

read todays farmers journal , when jack kennedy is having second thoughts about wintering pads , you know their is somethign wrong

Don’t get the paper for that reason, what is he saying now?

kboc · 17-02-2011 11:26PM

irishh_bob wrote: »

read todays farmers journal , when jack kennedy is having second thoughts about wintering pads , you know their is somethign wrong

i had just posted this then picked up the IFJ and red that. ah well!

reilig · 18-02-2011 10:07AM

irishh_bob wrote: »

how do the calves get from their ( creep ) area at the back of the cubicles to the cows , do you have to leave out one cubicle bed and in its place a door way of sorts

That's it exactly. The 2 outside pens have a cubicle left out and have a gate to allow the calves into the creep. The 2 pens in the centre have an opening in their dividing gates so that the calves can hop through and then out to the creep. Have 20 cows and 21 calves in a 4 bay shed at the moment and all calves lie on a bed of sawdust/lime in the creep area.

reilig · 18-02-2011 10:16AM

BeeDI wrote: »

Investment in a good shed, without going mad on the cost is something you will never regret, as long as you have the means to pay for it. Even if it means using off farm income to subside it.
Looking at the financial pay back from one single angle might mean it is simply not financially justifiable.
But think of your own comfort and welfare on bad winter evenings and nights and mornings.
I found this fall that I was able to house and keep my weanlings over the winter, not because I wanted to, but because prices in the fall were bad, and I had a shed to keep them.
Sold 12 of them last Tuesday in ennis. Easily made over €2.4k more than they would have last October. Feed cost was a fraction of that.
Farming does not follow the straight line calculations much favoured by some accounts and advisors.
That's my twopence worth anyway.

For me, the slatted shed that I last built was as good of investment as 25 acres of land (and I was only out €20k for it after the grant). In the North West we have 6 month winters and very poor land. If my cattle were being outwintered, i would only be able to keep half the amount. This shed was built on a 25 acre peice of land which is in my OH's name. We keep about 10 cows in the herd number. Outwintering would see us poach and plough the whole 25 acres for the 10 cows and it would take it the whole summer to recover with poor grass return. With the shed, we can house cattle in Mid October and let them out when the ground dries in May. Land hasn't been poached over winter so it has a great coat of grass in early may. Our meadows are clean and can give us 2 cuts of silage which is enough to feed the 10 cows for the winter.

So with a €20k investment, we have doubled the production of the 25 acres as well as having a whole lot less work to do to keep cattle over winter. The shed will pay for itself in 5 to 7 years.

Pharaoh1 · 18-02-2011 11:18AM

I suppose my attitude to the topic is a bit hard headed compared to many.
Much as I love my part time farming I'm not interested in taking on additional work or making significant investment unless it will put more money in my pocket.
I summer graze cattle and sell surplus grass as silage bales -its not a lucrative business but it is low cost and returns a small margin. More importantly it keeps SFP/REPS/DAS in my pocket.
Most of the neighbours were saying that I should build a shed and winter cattle and it would be awful handy etc...
As I said I did the figures and decided not to do that - I looked at the outwintering pad option and decided against that as well.
I did invest in reseeding, paddock fencing and water troughs and I feel that has been justified. I have much higher stocking rate and first bought in cattle will go to grass next week.
I wouldn't necessarily be Teagasc's biggest fan but for what its worth my adviser agreed with my approach.

Having said all that I think if someone makes a conscious decision to go the suckler route then winter accomodation is an absolute must as poached land is one of my pet hates.

Also if circumstances change and I see that there is a sustained beef price rise which would justify me for example winter finishing out of a shed then I'll change my mind.

irishh_bob · 18-02-2011 01:19PM

reilig wrote: »

That's it exactly. The 2 outside pens have a cubicle left out and have a gate to allow the calves into the creep. The 2 pens in the centre have an opening in their dividing gates so that the calves can hop through and then out to the creep. Have 20 cows and 21 calves in a 4 bay shed at the moment and all calves lie on a bed of sawdust/lime in the creep area.

so let me get this straight , do the calves have to walk from thier creep area out to the slatted area in order to suck the cows , obviously the cows dont get to the straw bedded creep area , what if some of the calves dont bother going back and simply stay with the mother in the cubicle - slatted area ?

also , what size is the creep area , sounds like a suckler cow shed with creep is even more expensive to build than a cubicle house for dairy cows

reilig · 18-02-2011 01:42PM

irishh_bob wrote: »

so let me get this straight , do the calves have to walk from thier creep area out to the slatted area in order to suck the cows , obviously the cows dont get to the straw bedded creep area , what if some of the calves dont bother going back and simply stay with the mother in the cubicle - slatted area ?

also , what size is the creep area , sounds like a suckler cow shed with creep is even more expensive to build than a cubicle house for dairy cows

yes, that's the whole idea of the creep. The calves can go into it and access creep feed (if you want them to) and the cows cannot access it. If the cows got to it they would lie on the bed all the time rather than on the rubber mats on the cubicles. All of my calves will go into it because they are getting a small bit of meal every morning and evening. (about 2kg between 20 just to give them a taste for it later in the summer)

My Creep area is 17ft wide and 4 bays or 60ft long. There is a cattle crush in it also and it can be used as a roofed holding yard. It can be divided into 4 pens if needed and these can be used as isolated calving pens or for any animal that might be sick.

Can't comment on whether the shed would be more expensive than a cubicle house. It certainly is a lot handier as the slats don't need to be scraped out on a regular basis - just clean out the calves bedded area a couple of times per year which is relatively easy to do as it can be accessed with the tractor and buckrake. Shed cost me €7k on top of the grant in 2003/04. Did a lot of the concrete work ourselves (Floors, cubicles and dividing walls).

irishh_bob · 18-02-2011 10:26PM

reilig wrote: »

yes, that's the whole idea of the creep. The calves can go into it and access creep feed (if you want them to) and the cows cannot access it. If the cows got to it they would lie on the bed all the time rather than on the rubber mats on the cubicles. All of my calves will go into it because they are getting a small bit of meal every morning and evening. (about 2kg between 20 just to give them a taste for it later in the summer)

My Creep area is 17ft wide and 4 bays or 60ft long. There is a cattle crush in it also and it can be used as a roofed holding yard. It can be divided into 4 pens if needed and these can be used as isolated calving pens or for any animal that might be sick.

Can't comment on whether the shed would be more expensive than a cubicle house. It certainly is a lot handier as the slats don't need to be scraped out on a regular basis - just clean out the calves bedded area a couple of times per year which is relatively easy to do as it can be accessed with the tractor and buckrake. Shed cost me €7k on top of the grant in 2003/04. Did a lot of the concrete work ourselves (Floors, cubicles and dividing walls).

sounds like a massive area for calves , 60 feet is required for 15 cubciles so if you have 15 cows and 15 calves , 17 ft wide x 60 ft long , thats 68 sqr feet of creep per calf

reilig · 19-02-2011 09:35PM

irishh_bob wrote: »

sounds like a massive area for calves , 60 feet is required for 15 cubciles so if you have 15 cows and 15 calves , 17 ft wide x 60 ft long , thats 68 sqr feet of creep per calf

Yea, but the area also contains a 30ft crush and is used as a roofed holding yard too. The calves can be restricted to 1 or 2 pens of we so desire.

vanderbadger · 20-02-2011 04:48PM

reilig wrote: »

That's it exactly. The 2 outside pens have a cubicle left out and have a gate to allow the calves into the creep. The 2 pens in the centre have an opening in their dividing gates so that the calves can hop through and then out to the creep. Have 20 cows and 21 calves in a 4 bay shed at the moment and all calves lie on a bed of sawdust/lime in the creep area.

how do you manage the sawdust reilig, do you get a lorry load and tip in shed and how long would it last, my calves to into a creep area on straw and i find it needs cleaning every 2 days..

thinking of building a slatted shed

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