Depression

Mars Bar · 03-01-2011 09:44PM

Resi12 wrote: »

It's a FETAC course so no. I had a meeting about my attendance but I never brought it up, I never said anything though because I just couldn't.

Honestly, lecturers are very understanding if you let them know.
One of my lecturers approached me and let me know there was no pressure, if it was still a problem for me, they'd give me time and they would take into account what was going on.

They can't help if they don't know.

Naikon · 03-01-2011 09:52PM

Deleted User wrote: »

You go to a counselor or doctor, they tell you you might be depressed. Only you and the doctor/counselor know. How exactly is this you being socially labeled as being depressed? Only. Two. People. Know. Being depressed doesn't mean you walk around shouting, "hey! Look at me! I'm depressed! See my badge?". That is the kind of thinking that we need to get rid of in this country.

If people go to a counselor because they are feeling bad but turns out they're not depressed, then it's wonderful news for them.

If you tell a doctor and a diagnosis is confirmed, they are legally obliged to detail this fact in medical records. This WILL have consequences for your insurance and possibly for Employers should they request such intimate details. The situation you describe does not apply to the question I have asked. What if an employer requests a full medical? How would somebody hide the details then? Personally, I would not tell depressed people to put too much trust in their doctors for stuff like this. Who knows, the diagnosis could come back and bite you in the ass. I can understand the stigma surrounding depression when society/employers labels such people as potential "trouble". Wish it wasn't the case, but sadly, there is still a huge taboo surrounding mental illness of any type/severity.

Resi12 · 03-01-2011 09:53PM

foxinsox wrote: »

I would suggest you go back to your doctor, honestly everybody probably breaks down in front of the doctor, I've done it a lot of times. Doctors are trained for this and they can help you.

Have you ever tried explaining how you feel to your mother? Maybe she just doesn't know how to talk to you and might be making mistakes in her way of parenting... it happens.. parents can mess up too..

If you explain to the tutors that you are having a bad time right now they might be able to help you out a bit more.

Please talk to someone, you will feel better afterwards. You say you feel like you need someone to drag you from under... you don't have to deal with it all yourself, there are people who care and who will help. Holding it all in doesn't help one bit..

take care

My mother doesn't listen at all, if I try to talk to her she will just ignore me and watch the tv or just walk out of the room because she probably thinks I am talking rubbish. I remember when I was 16/17 and stopped going school because everyone found out I was gay and I was just embarressed, silly looking back now but it was big for me. I broke down to her and told her I had no proper friends (only one or two but they weren't reliable in attendance either) and she just basically told me to stop being such a fool. She only talks to me when she feels like it and by then I'm too pissed off with her to talk to.

Jeez, sorry this isn't the place to offload but once I started typing that I had to finish..

I know I would be better off to tell the tutors but for some reason I just feel like I dunno, what's the point..?

cleremy jarkson · 03-01-2011 09:54PM

Wibbs wrote: »

In a way you would have to make people's mental lives harder. Give them less time to idle their gears as it were. I do think making mental life easier is what may be driving some of this. Our lives are easier than a century ago and a lot easier than 10,000 years ago. In either case, sitting in your room as an adult playing your bleepy games watching donkey porn as a distraction cos "I vant to be alooooone" would simply not be an option. You would have to deal with life and living. Then add in most people's shíte diet, monumental lack of exercise, not enough fresh air and sunlight, daily rhythms of nature(at fault there myself), delayed adulthood and reproduction, smaller families and less connected social lives, less spriritual certainties, huge over botoxed expectations of life and no wonder so many of us are a bit crackers. Shíte, it makes more sense to be so, rather than not.

Ok mad theory alert; the dietician types often make the point that we need to eat in a way that we evolved for. We didnt evolve for excessive consumption of cakes and pies, so they're bad and will kill ya. We evolved to be much more mobile than most of us are too. So we see illnesses like diabetes and obesity and a fair few others, that just dont show up in groups that act like we were "designed" to. I'd say similar of mental illness for the most part. We see far far more of it than in hunter gatherer societies, because our mental "diet" is outa whack with our minds(or our minds have yet to catch up). And just like a crap diet, not all will be obviously affected, but more will be.

It would be my take that many many cases of depression are like "type 2 diabetes of the mind"("real" clinical depression and bipolar more like type 1 diabetes). Environmental, preventable and maybe reversible. It would be my contention that the SSRI type treatments are akin to type 2 diabetes treatments, an easy fix, that papers over the cracks, but until you change your lifestyle not a lot will change and they may actually cause more harm than good.

Brilliant post and analogy at the end, basically sums up my viewpoint. and lol @ the donkey porn and "I vant to be alooone" !

foxinsox · 03-01-2011 10:02PM

Resi12 wrote: »

My mother doesn't listen at all, if I try to talk to her she will just ignore me and watch the tv or just walk out of the room because she probably thinks I am talking rubbish. I remember when I was 16/17 and stopped going school because everyone found out I was gay and I was just embarressed, silly looking back now but it was big for me. I broke down to her and told her I had no proper friends (only one or two but they weren't reliable in attendance either) and she just basically told me to stop being such a fool. She only talks to me when she feels like it and by then I'm too pissed off with her to talk to.

Jeez, sorry this isn't the place to offload but once I started typing that I had to finish..

I know I would be better off to tell the tutors but for some reason I just feel like I dunno, what's the point..?

so maybe your mother isn't able to listen, honestly I'm sure she is not purposely trying to hurt you.

would you talk to someone else? aunt/uncle, older cousin or friend.

I do think you should revisit the doctor, honestly it does help to get it all out..

The tutors are there to help you and as someone else already mentioned they have probably dealt with people in your situation before.

even have a look or call some of the sites/places mentioned in the first post.. if you need that someone to drag you up from where you are.. you have to reach out a tiny bit.. please do ..

03-01-2011 10:05PM

Naikon wrote: »

If you tell a doctor and a diagnosis is confirmed, they are legally obliged to detail this fact in medical records. This WILL have consequences for your insurance and possibly for Employers should they request such intimate details. The situation you describe does not apply to the question I have asked. What if an employer requests a full medical? How would somebody hide the details then? Personally, I would not tell depressed people to put too much trust in their doctors for stuff like this. Who knows, the diagnosis could come back and bite you in the ass. I can understand the stigma surrounding depression when society/employers labels such people as potential "trouble". Wish it wasn't the case, but sadly, there is still a huge taboo surrounding mental illness of any type/severity.

Does it get put into your medical record? I didn't realise that. God, with some doctors doing that and then counselors needing a referral from a doctor, this country makes it exceedingly hard for anyone who is suffering. I'm just glad that my college (and I presume most.. I could be wrong..) have an on-campus counselor that I could go in and talk to.

This is probably wishful thinking, but I really hope someone of importance sees this thread and, coupled with the startling suicide figures, realises that there needs to be a change in this country. Like I said, it really is probably just wishful thinking.

Naikon · 03-01-2011 10:05PM

mars bar wrote: »

Honestly, lecturers are very understanding if you let them know.
One of my lecturers approached me and let me know there was no pressure, if it was still a problem for me, they'd give me time and they would take into account what was going on.

They can't help if they don't know.

Did you actually give them the full score though? You should only give the most ambigious reference to a long term illness you possibly can. You don't want Lecturers(especially evil/**** ones) knowing about your mental state.

This is bad advice imo.

Wibbs · 03-01-2011 10:07PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Like I said, it really is probably just wishful thinking.

Sadly I have to agree with you on this one.

Mars Bar · 03-01-2011 10:09PM

Naikon wrote: »

Did you actually give them the full score though? You should only give the most ambigious reference to a long term illness you possibly can. You don't want Lecturers(especially evil/**** ones) knowing about your mental state.

This is bad advice imo.

Well what happened to me was fairly public so maybe that made it a little bit easier coz I didn't have to explain myself as such.

Of course, I don't mean going to every lecturer and divulging every detail to them. Go to one you trust and explain that you need to time.

Resi12 · 03-01-2011 10:11PM

foxinsox wrote: »

so maybe your mother isn't able to listen, honestly I'm sure she is not purposely trying to hurt you.

would you talk to someone else? aunt/uncle, older cousin or friend.

I do think you should revisit the doctor, honestly it does help to get it all out..

The tutors are there to help you and as someone else already mentioned they have probably dealt with people in your situation before.

even have a look or call some of the sites/places mentioned in the first post.. if you need that someone to drag you up from where you are.. you have to reach out a tiny bit.. please do ..

No, I'm not close with my family at all really. I don't want to make a fuss about it, I really don't know why but I just don't. My mam just started yet another fight with me and now she just won't shut up. I ****ing can't take this house much longer, it's always one thing after another with me. I can never do right, never. Now she's giving out to me over typing on this while I'm supposedly watching tv, I don't get her at all.

Thanks for that please do though, it made me smile.

Naikon · 03-01-2011 10:17PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Does it get put into your medical record? I didn't realise that. God, with some doctors doing that and then counselors needing a referral from a doctor, this country makes it exceedingly hard for anyone who is suffering. I'm just glad that my college (and I presume most.. I could be wrong..) have an on-campus counselor that I could go in and talk to.

This is probably wishful thinking, but I really hope someone of importance sees this thread and, coupled with the startling suicide figures, realises that there needs to be a change in this country. Like I said, it really is probably just wishful thinking.

I really commend what you are doing, and pretty much all of your advice is spot on. It's just I feel bad when you consider how big of a deal "the authorities" make about it. I don't see the ****ing big deal about it, it's an illness which can be as devestating if not worse than heart disease. Really, it does not help that alot of employers out there are woefully ignorant about it. You see, office politics requires a good "team player" or whatever. Being "Depressed" is a way of almost saying "wait a second, this guy could upset the status quo". People fear what they cannot understand, and this stigma is present today, even though it is downright WRONG. There is so much political red tape in most organisations now, I could understand why someone would "go postal" so to speak. I hope I never have to work in an enviroment like the one presented in "Office Space". Suddenly, self employment is starting to look a whole lot more sensible...

Kind rambling here, but I feel the ignorance presented about such illnesses by employers stems from the fact a typical office is like a battery farm for humans in the 21st century. A modern office is probably one of least productive places you could think. All the really great work you see throughout history, was not prepared by some cubicle monkey working for a shilling. tl;dr - The Office exists as a social outlet for office politics. Depressed individuals are already at a disadvantage, because their social adaptation allows them to see through the bull****. Not for all cases, but you get the idea.

03-01-2011 10:21PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Sadly I have to agree with you on this one.

Do you think there's any possible way for any sort of reforms to take place?

Naikon wrote: »

I really commend what you are doing, and pretty much all of your advice is spot on. It's just I feel bad when you consider how big of a deal "the authorities" make about it. I don't see the ****ing big deal about it, it's an illness which can be as devestating if not worse than heart disease. Really, it does not help that alot of employers out there are woefully ignorant about it. You see, office politics requires a good "team player" or whatever. Being "Depressed" is a way of almost saying "wait a second, this guy could upset the status quo". People fear what they cannot understand, and this stigma is present today, even though it is downright WRONG. There is so much political red tape in most organisations now, I could understand why someone would "go postal" so to speak. I hope I never have to work in an enviroment like the one presented in "Office Space". Suddenly, self employment is starting to look a whole lot more sensible...

Kind rambling here, but I feel the ignorance presented about such illnesses by employers stems from the fact a typical office is like a battery farm for humans in the 21st century. A modern office is probably one of least productive places you could think. All the really great work you see throughout history, was not prepared by some cubicle monkey working for a shilling. tl;dr - The Office exists as a social outlet for office politics. Depressed individuals are already at a disadvantage, because their social adaptation allows them to see through the bull****. Not for all cases, but you get the idea.

To be honest, normal people are as likely to "go postal" if they are pushed the wrong way. But I completely agree. It's ridiculous. Just because I may be somewhat depressed, doesn't make me any less of a team player. There needs to be an overhaul of how people think. Unfortunately I really don't know how.

Predalien · 03-01-2011 10:28PM

Naikon wrote: »

If you tell a doctor and a diagnosis is confirmed, they are legally obliged to detail this fact in medical records. This WILL have consequences for your insurance and possibly for Employers should they request such intimate details. The situation you describe does not apply to the question I have asked. What if an employer requests a full medical? How would somebody hide the details then? Personally, I would not tell depressed people to put too much trust in their doctors for stuff like this. Who knows, the diagnosis could come back and bite you in the ass. I can understand the stigma surrounding depression when society/employers labels such people as potential "trouble". Wish it wasn't the case, but sadly, there is still a huge taboo surrounding mental illness of any type/severity.

Okay, there is absolutely no way a doctor will let an employer know that a person is suffering from depression. All a doctor will do is state whether a person is fit for the job they have or have applied for, that's it, they won't give any details on specific medical conditions. To do otherwise would be a breach of confidence and would have serious implications for the doctor, including potentially having their license revoked.

03-01-2011 10:31PM

Is there any way that people can clarify some issues in this thread? Just to get a second/third opinion on some things.

1: Does some councilors require a referral from a GP?
2: Would a doctor put that you are suffering from depression on your health records?

These seem pretty important to clarify, as it might stop some people from getting help.

steddyeddy · 03-01-2011 10:33PM

Princess Peach wrote: »

I don't know what you mean by more depressed? I have clinical depression in that it has been ongoing for years now and medication is the only way for me to control it. It doesn't mean I'm any more down than someone who is having a rough time, it just means I find it a lot harder to pull myself out of it.

Ah well different cirscumstances probaly but when i was diagnosed with clinical depression I felt it held me back from dealing with the cause of the depression.

Novella · 03-01-2011 10:35PM

http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/Find_a_Service/Mental_Health_Services/The_Mental_Health_Team/

Here's a page from the HSE website that might be helpful.

foxinsox · 03-01-2011 10:38PM

Predalien wrote: »

Okay, there is absolutely no way a doctor will let an employer know that a person is suffering from depression. All a doctor will do is state whether a person is fit for the job they have or have applied for, that's it, they won't give any details on specific medical conditions. To do otherwise would be a breach of confidence and would have serious implications for the doctor, including potentially having their license revoked.

+ 1

and in fairness Doctors have better things to be doing.

I have suffered for many years and have also within this time held sucessfully several good jobs, not one has ever asked for a medical exam.

To be honest if I ever had to fill in an application form of any type... the bit where it asks about long term illness/medical conditions etc.. I have always lied, it is none of their business. My suffering from depression has never affected my job. I might crumble to pieces when I get home in the evening but it has never affected my skills for doing my job.

I have got myself into jobs where I personally know that it is too much stress for me and that I may have taken on too much. I have then looked for a less stressful job, given aedaquate notice and moved.. no problems..

Erica<3 · 03-01-2011 10:38PM

Kiera,

This may be a feeble attempt to help you out but I'll try anyway.
The next time someone has a meltdown in front of you, keep calm, very patient (I know it's very hard) and try to say relaxing stuff; along the lines of it's ok, we'll get through it together, NOT calm down, because that's like petrol to a bonfire right there.

In my worst moments - in the midst of a very, very dark depression (when everyone, I thought, had a motive) all I wanted was to be left alone. The idea of someone trying to calm me would make my blood boil, to the point where I was violent. I couldn't control it, and afterwards I would hate myself more for the way I acted.

However, while I was trying to work my way out of it, sort my head out, I took comfort in the fact that someone, ANYONE, wanted to just be there, to help me.

It's the hardest thing for people in the family of someone with depression to understand what to do, what to say etc

Anyway, whether or not this helped, I hope your family member gets help. One thing I learned was that it takes some seriously balls to put your hand up and say, yeah, I need help.

Predalien · 03-01-2011 10:39PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Is there any way that people can clarify some issues in this thread? Just to get a second/third opinion on some things.

1: Does some councilors require a referral from a GP?
2: Would a doctor put that you are suffering from depression on your health records?

These seem pretty important to clarify, as it might stop some people from getting help.

It would go on your medical records yes, but such records are completely confidential, only doctors treating you would see them. An employer for example can never request to see a person's medical records under any circumstance, they can request a medical but all they'll be told is whether a person is fit for work and a doctor would not say a person is not fit for work due to depression. As for the other question, I don't know.

03-01-2011 10:41PM

Predalien wrote: »

It would go on your medical records yes, but such records are completely confidential, only doctors treating you would see them. An employer for example can never request to see a person's medical records under any circumstance, they can request a medical but all they'll be told is whether a person is fit for work and a doctor would not say a person is not fit for work due to depression. As for the other question, I don't know.

Someone asked what would happen if they asked for a full medical? What is the doctor obliged to say? Simply that you are or are not capable for the job, or would they give the full records?

foxinsox · 03-01-2011 10:46PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Is there any way that people can clarify some issues in this thread? Just to get a second/third opinion on some things.

1: Does some councilors require a referral from a GP?
2: Would a doctor put that you are suffering from depression on your health records?

These seem pretty important to clarify, as it might stop some people from getting help.

1.
I'm not sure exactly, but I would certainly be happier going to a counsellor that my doctor has a knowledge of and might have recommended other patients to in the past.

I think maybe to see a psychiatrist you might need a referral from your doctor.

2.
I would imagine a doctor has to note all your medical conditions in your records. Otherwise they are not doing their job properly, how could they possibly remember details of multiple patients?

As mentioned in another post, access to a private individuals medical records is virtually impossible.

Predalien · 03-01-2011 10:47PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Someone asked what would happen if they asked for a full medical? What is the doctor obliged to say? Simply that you are or are not capable for the job, or would they give the full records?

They will not give ANY specific details to the employer. Just whether or not you are capable for the job. They can't give your records to anybody they are completely confidential. They can request a full medical but won't ever learn the details of what that medical showed up.

t0mm13b · 03-01-2011 11:13PM

foxinsox wrote: »

1.
I'm not sure exactly, but I would certainly be happier going to a counsellor that my doctor has a knowledge of and might have recommended other patients to in the past.

I think maybe to see a psychiatrist you might need a referral from your doctor.

2.
I would imagine a doctor has to note all your medical conditions in your records. Otherwise they are not doing their job properly, how could they possibly remember details of multiple patients?

As mentioned in another post, access to a private individuals medical records is virtually impossible.

Two things here that I see fit, in fact I brought it up on previously,

In order to get to see a counseller or a psychiatrist/psychologist, one has to get a referral from their GP? (I asked about this previously)

What about Social Welfare office? Can they access those medical records also?

Predalien · 03-01-2011 11:16PM

t0mm13b wrote: »

What about Social Welfare office? Can they access those medical records also?

No, they'll just be told whether or not a person is fit for work, for example when a person is claiming disability allowance they won't be told the exact nature of the disability.

kowloon · 03-01-2011 11:33PM

Wibbs wrote: »

It would be my take that many many cases of depression are like "type 2 diabetes of the mind"("real" clinical depression and bipolar more like type 1 diabetes). Environmental, preventable and maybe reversible. It would be my contention that the SSRI type treatments are akin to type 2 diabetes treatments, an easy fix, that papers over the cracks, but until you change your lifestyle not a lot will change and they may actually cause more harm than good.

It's at times like this I'm glad I'm a type 1

. (yes, I am stirring it)

Erica<3 · 03-01-2011 11:36PM

To use the counselling services of the HSE you do need a referral from your GP.

steddyeddy · 03-01-2011 11:45PM

Erica<3 wrote: »

To use the counselling services of the HSE you do need a referral from your GP.

well it depends on the counselling service, the excellent counselling service i used didnt require a gp referal

degausserxo · 03-01-2011 11:54PM

Predalien wrote: »

No, they'll just be told whether or not a person is fit for work, for example when a person is claiming disability allowance they won't be told the exact nature of the disability.

When someone claims disability the doctor must fill in any diagnoses, medical history and hospital admissions on the application form. So they will be told the nature.

sierra117x · 04-01-2011 12:00AM

degausserxo wrote: »

When someone claims disability the doctor must fill in any diagnoses, medical history and hospital admissions on the application form. So they will be told the nature.

we get plenty of different stuff put on medical cards but the point is its signed off by a doctor so anything from depression to "medical issues" will do us fine

04-01-2011 12:29PM

Erica<3 wrote: »

To use the counselling services of the HSE you do need a referral from your GP.

I didn't realise that. Are all counselors under the HSE, or are there some that operate independently of them?

How is everybody doing today?

Depression

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