Blue Line BRT

dubhthach · 09-10-2010 11:28pm #1

Instead of taking the Metro North thread off topic with discussion on the "Blue Line" I thought it be good idea to start a new thread.

From looking at the map online it looks like part of the route is along the reserved tract for the Eastern Bypass.

http://dublinobserver.com/2010/10/dublin-blue-line-video-and-map/
http://www.blueline.ie/index.html

So is this Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown finally putting the Eastern-Bypass to bed?

Pete_Cavan · 10-10-2010 12:02pm

IMO, BRT is a great way of providing transport for outlaying areas of the city, linking residential communities, employment centres, shopping/leisure facilities and public transport links in a particular locality. Im sure it would be relatively easy and inexpensive to develop other routes similar to the Blue line.

For example in Blanchardstown/Castleknock it could have stops at Ashtown train station, Blanchardstown shopping centre, the main business/industrial parks in the area, National Aquatic Centre, Connelly Hospital and adjacent to the main residential areas. They should get both public and private stakeholders involved in the same way Blue Line has RTE, UCD, St Vincent’s hospital and Sandyford Industrial Estate. Something similar could be done for areas like Finglas/Glasnevin/Santry, Lucan/Liffy Valley/Clondalkin and Templeouge/Rathfarnham/Dundrum.

The current Dublin Bus network is a mess and should be replaced by BRT for local movements, QBCs/Dart/Luas/Metro for city centre travel and a selection of orbital bus routes.

irishguy · 10-10-2010 1:34pm

dubhthach wrote: »

Instead of taking the Metro North thread off topic with discussion on the "Blue Line" I thought it be good idea to start a new thread.

From looking at the map online it looks like part of the route is along the reserved tract for the Eastern Bypass.

http://dublinobserver.com/2010/10/dublin-blue-line-video-and-map/
http://www.blueline.ie/index.html

So is this Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown finally putting the Eastern-Bypass to bed?

Great idea but pretty much all of that area has high traffic levels and no space for buses. So I dont know how thats going to work unless they are going to turn all the roads into bus lanes.

ardmacha · 10-10-2010 3:39pm

So is this Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown finally putting the Eastern-Bypass to bed?

Well they've already allowed developement here .

But the Eastern Bypass is one of those ideas that never goes away, with the tunnel on the Northside there is an obvious gap for something the same on the southside.

Chuchoter · 10-10-2010 3:45pm

Sounds like an amazing idea, but is it a bus or a train :P

dubhthach · 10-10-2010 5:28pm

irishguy wrote: »

Great idea but pretty much all of that area has high traffic levels and no space for buses. So I dont know how thats going to work unless they are going to turn all the roads into bus lanes.

Well thence the idea to use part of the land that was reserved for the route of the Eastern Bypass. All of the route from UCD to Goatstown would be new build. Plus no doubt they would widen the road from Goatstown down to Luas line with bus lanes as there is plenty of space set aside.

10-10-2010 6:41pm

crayolastereo wrote: »

Sounds like an amazing idea, but is it a bus or a train :P

Basically, it's a bendy bus running on a dedicated road.

Chuchoter · 10-10-2010 9:16pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Basically, it's a bendy bus running on a dedicated road.

But didn't we have bendy buses...and then we got rid of them?

Propellerhead · 10-10-2010 9:46pm

crayolastereo wrote: »

But didn't we have bendy buses...and then we got rid of them?

Nearly.

We did get rid of what could have been a potentially useful busway from Mount Argus to Tallaght though.

Godge · 10-10-2010 10:02pm

1. DART
2. Commuter Rail
3. LUAS
4. Metro
5. Bus
6. Blueline???

How many forms of transport does one city need?

Sulmac · 10-10-2010 11:19pm

Godge wrote: »

1. DART
2. Commuter Rail
3. LUAS
4. Metro
5. Bus
6. Blueline???

How many forms of transport does one city need?

It doesn't matter, as long as there is integrated ticketing and properly designed timetables that offer easy connections from one mode to another (preferably under a single brand).

Amsterdam (as an example) has buses, BRT, trams, metro, commuter rail and passenger ferries; and they manage just fine.

Anyway, back on topic, I think it's a brilliant idea - though proper connections are needed with the DART station. The plans seem to show the terminus at St. Vincent's Hospital rather than at Sydney Parade where it could interconnect properly with the DART.

brandodub · 11-10-2010 3:06am

A dedicated busway is a great idea I just feel it will go the way of the old DART feeder services-so many promises from the 80s ( ie the whole North and West of the city fed into Clontarf/Kilester/Kilbarrack and off into town on the DART) no integrated ticketing no publicity no benefits of using multi modal public transport pointed out to would be users so we all bought cars instead:rolleyes:

Cool Mo D · 11-10-2010 10:46am

It is a good idea, but there doesn't seem to be enough detail on it. The big questions are:

Who will operate it, and will it be ticketed as part of the Dublin Bus or Luas or DART? Will it integrate with other tickets? (Totally essential as it meets QBC, DART and Luas)
Who is paying for it?
What infrastructure will be built for it? (Nutley lane is a bottle neck - will this be widened?)
When will we actually see it run?

The area between UCD and Sandyford is not well served by public transport - the 11 is a poor enough route, and the new 47 is not frequent, and there is definitely a market for a UCD - DART and UCD -Luas feeder. It is also nice to see a project that connects developed suburbs to existing transport links.

It could be a very good project - the potential is there, but the website seems to be light on the hard facts. I really hope it sees the light of day, and is done right.

I think it provides a model for similar areas that are close to rail lines and a wide arterial road running through them, but no good connections - Malahide road, Navan road west of the Blanchardstown centre would be other examples

Rock of Gibraltar · 11-10-2010 11:30am

I wonder if they've looked at reopening either the Sydney Parade Ave or Ailesbury Park junctions with Merrion Road as bus only junctions for a through road to the DART station.

dubhthach · 11-10-2010 5:04pm

Rock of Gibraltar wrote: »

I wonder if they've looked at reopening either the Sydney Parade Ave or Ailesbury Park junctions with Merrion Road as bus only junctions for a through road to the DART station.

If they did that it would probably make sense to have it a one way route, BRT enters at Ailesbury Park/Merrion and loop around back through the Sydney Parade junction. They could thus have the stop less then a minutes walk from the Dart station. Of course they would have to have some sort of bus gate (bollards that lower) to prevent cars from using it as a rat run.

Google Maps

Of course the junction there is a mess anyways. I have to drop my other half to Vincents every morning and sometime I pick her up in the afternoon. I don't want to imagine what a mess it would be if you throw the BRT into the mix.

dubhthach · 11-10-2010 5:09pm

Cool Mo D wrote: »

What infrastructure will be built for it? (Nutley lane is a bottle neck - will this be widened?)

Going from Vincents to the N11 there is pay and display parking along the side of the golf course. I'm assuming this would have to go to be replaced with a bus lane. Tbh though they would probably have to take some land of Elm course Golf course, especially if they want a bus lane on both sides of the road.

guano_jim · 11-10-2010 5:28pm

would be *more* useful if you could also carry your bike on it.. as in cycle-to-blu-line > blu-line > cycle-to-destination.
and that could/should apply to LUAS & DART.

Empire o de Sun · 11-10-2010 6:37pm

Why not just build an O-bahn, and let more than one bus route use it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPhhbF0Ms7g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPhxaAT9M6c

dowlingm · 12-10-2010 3:51am

Los Angeles County Metro:
Blue Line - light rail
Red Line - subway
Green Line - light rail
Gold Line - light rail
Purple Line - subway
Orange Line - BRT
Silver Line - BRT

The only thing that's confusing in Dublin is non-interoperable ticketing, not different vehicles or even different operators.

LeinsterDub · 13-10-2010 12:36pm

guano_jim wrote: »

would be *more* useful if you could also carry your bike on it.. as in cycle-to-blu-line > blu-line > cycle-to-destination.
and that could/should apply to LUAS & DART.

Or as they do in Toronto carry the bike on the front

monument · 13-10-2010 12:51pm

Wright's StreetCar RTV, bike racks inside:

And LA Metro's Metroliners used on their BRT given rail-like 'Orange Line' name, but as with all other buses, it has outside front-mounted bike racks (seen here in its fold-up position):

dowlingm · 14-10-2010 1:38pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Or as they do in Toronto carry the bike on the front

Only on buses.

The new streetcars and LRVs won't have front racks.

LeeroyJones · 14-10-2010 3:21pm

So the awkward question.... how much is this going to cost the taxpayer?!

dubhthach · 14-10-2010 8:59pm

LeeroyJones wrote: »

So the awkward question.... how much is this going to cost the taxpayer?!

Well if ye believe Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown cc total bill is 33million euro. So i would assume all of that as there is no talk of PPP

dRNk SAnTA · 15-10-2010 1:14am

Let's be honest, when have infrastructure proposal documents ever been accurate in price? They are ALWAYS hugely optimistic, and who can blame them. 33 million my hole.

sdanseo · 18-10-2010 11:03pm

I think it's a rubbish idea - it links the Dart and Luas at stations never designed to be interchanges. It would require a change in legislation also, the Road Transport/Traffic legislation currently limits maximum vehicle dimensions and weights.

I think it's a silly proposal for Dublin given the disaster with articulated buses. This scheme is a golden tooth for DLRCC - only going to benefit those in big businesses that bring in money to the county and not really serve a huge amount of people in the grand scheme of things.

A high-frequency bus connecting the Luas at Dundrum or Balally (zone boundary plus the huge P+R and the shopping centre nearby make this a much better place for the connection, not fecking Kilmacud) with Blackrock and Dún Laoghaire - as opposed to the rubbish service on the 17 - would do the job for a tiny outlay. The rest is already served by lowfloor buses and this scheme would be pure waste of €33m in additoon to whatever has already been wasted on it.

xper · 20-10-2010 2:35am

sdonn wrote: »

...I think it's a silly proposal for Dublin given the disaster with articulated buses. This scheme is a golden tooth for DLRCC - only going to benefit those in big businesses that bring in money to the county and not really serve a huge amount of people in the grand scheme of things.

Two of the primary reasons that Dublin Bus's flirtation with articulated vehicles has been deemed a failure were that there was no investment in the required street infrastructure and the routes operated were not suitable for the vehicle type. This project seeks to address both those issues from the outset.

Not sure where you ar getting the big business benefactors idea from. Its not like UCD and Sandyford are devoid of commuters. I hear UCD has a cronic parking problem and they are interested in this as a way of getting their staff and students out of their cars (Students with cars! Not in my day!)

I do think you might be onto something though with extending the proposed route and having Dundrum as the western terminus. Surly the Town Centre people would be very interested.

BrianD · 23-10-2010 2:00am

Godge wrote: »

1. DART
2. Commuter Rail
3. LUAS
4. Metro
5. Bus
6. Blueline???

How many forms of transport does one city need?

When there's no plan or leadership, as many as you can get away with it!

Pete_Cavan · 23-10-2010 11:30am

BrianD wrote: »

Godge wrote: »

1. DART
2. Commuter Rail
3. LUAS
4. Metro
5. Bus
6. Blueline???

How many forms of transport does one city need?

When there's no plan or leadership, as many as you can get away with it!

What does it matter how many forms of transport there are as long as you can get from where you are to where you want to go? I mean when it is all operational, if you looked at the public transport map it will show a series of lines and the possible destination and interchanges. If you did not know what mode of transport each line represented and you took a tram for the first part of your journey would you refuse to go the second part of your journey because it meant you would have to take BRT instead of a tram? Would you return home and use only trams for all future journeys? Of course you wouldnt, you would just be glad you have public transport to take you there instead of taking the car, sitting in traffic and then paying for parking. Once integrated ticketing is up and running it does not matter how many forms of transport you have in a network as long as it is an extensive network and there are adequate interchanges.

23-10-2010 4:49pm

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

What does it matter how many forms of transport there are as long as you can get from where you are to where you want to go? I mean when it is all operational, if you looked at the public transport map it will show a series of lines and the possible destination and interchanges. If you did not know what mode of transport each line represented and you took a tram for the first part of your journey would you refuse to go the second part of your journey because it meant you would have to take BRT instead of a tram? Would you return home and use only trams for all future journeys? Of course you wouldnt, you would just be glad you have public transport to take you there instead of taking the car, sitting in traffic and then paying for parking. Once integrated ticketing is up and running it does not matter how many forms of transport you have in a network as long as it is an extensive network and there are adequate interchanges.

Very true, public transport is only a means to an end, if people lived, shopped, entertained and worked within walking distance, then there would be no need for public transport.

From an infrastructure point of view, it makes sense to design communities that need less transport rather than more.

dowlingm · 26-10-2010 5:55am

Interesting that Boris/TfL is celebrating the demise of bendys
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/media/newscentre/17075.aspx

Blue Line BRT

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