Why it is in YOUR OWN INTEREST not to strike or protest at this time (mid May 2010).

Guya wrote: »

I'm being dramatic alright but it is easier to believe lies when the truth is horrific. I honestly believe that we are heading toward an economic war without geographical boarders. People already starve because of economics. We are entering a world of pain.

We are only at the start of this crises. Things are going to get so much worse as food transport prices rise along with everything else. The oil is running out. The longer we take to address it, the more expensive the oil will become & the more we will suffer.

Politicians don't want to rock the boat. That could mean losing their job. They wait for disaster to strike before they do anything. The banking/property scandal is a prime example of this. I don't believe any bank was too big to fail and either does Nuriel Roubini. It's a lie.

http://www.energybulletin.net/node/52093

But I would be right in my opinion that the Tuesday walkabout is not about peak oil.

It's a "gimme walk" with out solutions or clarity. You know "Gimme a Job", "Gimme Social Welfare", "Gimme Rent free accommodation" followed by "It's not fair" and "the Bankers are evil" with a pinch of "Don't gimme to the banks".

Guya wrote: »

I don't believe any bank was too big to fail and either does Nuriel Roubini. It's a lie.

Well I disagree with you there. The majority of business both personal and commercial in this country goes through 2 banks. AIB & Bank of Ireland. If they failed then effectively the whole payment systems in this country would crawl to a total stop. No wages, No Social Welfare, No Pensions, No Payments between companies. Need I go on.

On the other hand in my opinion Anglo-Irish Bank only dealt with specific people like Developers and should have been let go under, Irish Nationwide is quite small and again should have been allowed go under. I believe we have wasted a large amount of tax payers monies on both these organisations.

Mountainsandh wrote: »

I know exactly what you are saying and agree that a lot of people are acting like spoilt kids waiting to be helped, served, and made cosy.


I have a job, zero debts except for a mortgage that is probably a third (or less) of most people's (for a house bought in 2004, which was a home not a status statement or an investment, so nobody wanted it), I drive old cars and live a modest lifestyle, and I'm paying for the "spoilt kids" demanding cake.

However I am one of the others, who would join the march for other reasons : to be heard, to give politicians a jolt, to shake them into action or shake them out of it.

Some proportion of the protesters may belong to the "Gimme" crowds, others like me have different reasons for protesting.

TBH your situation sounds an awful lot like mine as well (well except I owe a bit on a CC as well!).

The problem is unless you multiply the protesters numbers by a large factor you will not jolt the politicians into any thing. The protests will not encourage people to join if they are taken over by fringe extreme elements which they are at the moment.

You have the SWP who protest at everything and anything and have no credibility in the real world backed up by fringe republicans a lot of whom don't even recognise the right of the State in its current form to exist.

Without a clear objective these protests will not bring about change of any kind. All they are is an ego massage for the mouthpieces, an excuse for the violent and a nuisance to the majority of us who want to get on with our lives.

I do not disagree with peoples right to protest as I have said before I have marched in demonstrations through Dublin myself.

I do disagree with organisers of marchers telling people to "hold back until next week when we will have more numbers" over a megaphone when addressing thugs who want a go at the Gardai (I realise that these guys are not representative of the majority on the march but when you lie down with dogs you get up with fleas!).

deadtiger wrote: »

It's a "gimme walk" with out solutions or clarity. You know "Gimme a Job", "Gimme Social Welfare", "Gimme Rent free accommodation" followed by "It's not fair" and "the Bankers are evil" with a pinch of "Don't gimme to the banks".

When people spend their lives contributing to society & society constantly asks 'gimme' don't you think it's reasonable to expect something in return.

After the elderly have spent their lives contributing to society they now face threats that the government will consider pay cuts again, tell me how that fits into your 'gimme' philosophy?

Society is partially based on reciprocity, is it not?

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

When people spend their lives contributing to society & society constantly asks 'gimme' don't you think it's reasonable to expect something in return.

After the elderly have spent their lives contributing to society they now face threats that the government will consider pay cuts again, tell me how that fits into your 'gimme' philosophy?

Society is partially based on reciprocity, is it not?

That is extremely noble and tbh I don't disagree with what you are saying.

I do have a sneaking suspicion that there were very few people like this on the Tuesday Anarchist Hike.

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

When people spend their lives contributing to society & society constantly asks 'gimme' don't you think it's reasonable to expect something in return.

After the elderly have spent their lives contributing to society they now face threats that the government will consider pay cuts again, tell me how that fits into your 'gimme' philosophy?

Society is partially based on reciprocity, is it not?

To paraphrase deadtiger, but rather more bluntly - that's exactly the kind of thing that nobody disagrees with, but which very few would see as having any actual relevance to these marches.

The elderly, after all, have already protested - they didn't storm the Dáil, but they seem to have made their point. They apparently don't need you to act in their name.


cordially,
Scofflaw

danman wrote: »

Did Barings have over 60% of it's national marketplace?
Did it collapse in a Market like the present one?
How many banks are in a position to take over the debts of another in the present climate?

I no very little about banking, but it seems to me that Barings isn't a similar comparison.
I'm probably wrong on this.

I would agree with you on this.

Barings Bank was not a bank that was intertwined as closely in a country and the Big two are here. Also who would be in a position to take these banks over at the moment and what disruption would take place even if a buyer was found.

moonpurple wrote: »

dignified protest is important, registering dissatisfaction is psychologically important, democratic protest prevents rioting

Yes I agree, but Republican thugs chucking bottles at Gardai does not equal dignified protest.

Charging the gates of our houses of Parliament does not equal dignified protest.

Instructing protesters to hold back attacking the Gardai until they have more numbers at the next protest does not equal dignified protest.

As I said I agree that dignified protest is important. It is also important that the protest has a proper goal and objectives. If it does and it inspires the majority it will succeed. If it is wholly, unfocused and does not stand up to scrutiny then it will fail and the majority will ignore it.

Really unless the protesters ditch the extremists and get a major political party involved they will go no where.

DeVore wrote: »

In every trading floor room I have ever been on there were constant displays of world news, SKy News, BBC, ABC, CNN etc on LCD tvs. We do NOT want to be on those screens. Ever.

I don't know you but I will make some assumptions.
1. You worked for banks at some point.
2. You worked on trading floor at some point.
3. You have less money now than 3 years ago.
4. Some of your worth is locked in securities\bonds\currency

I pulled your 'banking crisis - nothing to worry about' statement apart and now I'll have to do it with this. You see, you are talking from the inside and not the out. You are talking as a trader, as a banker and frankly you are still of the same mindset that caused this disaster.

Anyone from 2002-2007 who said 'the housing market needs to cool was told exactly what you have in your OP. 'ssssh, keep quiet and pretend it's all fine and it will be.'

Nonsense. Absolute nonsense.

DeVore wrote: »

What we need to be doing now is saying "nothing to see here, move along to someone else, we're gold".

Again, you want us to lie about the state of the economy. Anglo Irish anyone?

DeVore wrote: »

Going out and protesting right now is NOT going to change anything, I'm sorry but do you really think it will? Has it ever before??

Jesus yes. Poll tax in UK. Pensions in France.

DeVore wrote: »

Save your anger for the election, contact your TD and wear his ear off, but to go on the streets and riot or appear to be supporting riots is lunacy.

If taking up my right to protest will do nothing then choosing to do nothing does not solve that. Wait for an election? There should be an election now if democracy was not being raped by the current government.

DeVore wrote: »

If you are in the Public sector, you DO NOT WANT to see the IMF come here, they dont care about you and they arent elected so they dont care if you dont like their measures, they will simply take control of the government coffers and issue your bosses less payroll. It wont be a "cut" as such, they just simply wont pay you.

Simple scaremongering. Yes times would be tough but we would be fine much more quickly.Short sharp shock over long term pain anytime. What you are not saying here is the impact IMF would have on the rich, wonder why?

DeVore wrote: »

If you are in private sector, you might think "wooo, that sounds like fun, lets f*ck the PS again. Come on IMF".

I would never think that.

DeVore wrote: »

Good luck selling your goods, or helping your boss sell his goods when no one can move in the cities and no one has any money to spend. Some of your customers are Public Sector remember...

ffs.

DeVore wrote: »

So what do we do? Lie back and think of Ireland? Well, ironically, yes. We take this shafting because we have no choice, we havent had since NAMA. But we should remember this and when the time of reckoning comes (its called an election ) we screw these bastards to the wall.

And there we have it. Sort this issue by doing nothing guys. ffs.

DeV seeing this thread reminded me of something, and you were right. Looking on the US Tea Party Protests, what happened? People with honest greivances formed an honest movement; then disingenuous, hypocritical, extremist jackasses hijacked the whole thing and made it into a disgusting blob of inexplicable poo.

Overheal wrote: »

DeV seeing this thread reminded me of something, and you were right. Looking on the US Tea Party Protests, what happened? People with honest greivances formed an honest movement; then disingenuous, hypocritical, extremist jackasses hijacked the whole thing and made it into a disgusting blob of inexplicable poo.

Without going any deeper into why I think this is an extremely bad
perspective I'll just say this:

Going off your logic because some ignorant people hijacked what was once
a noble thing you think it's best to give up, to let them win & not bother
trying to counter such BS? That is a totally defeatist attitude right
there and honestly we could go into the history of strike breaking which
is indeed a very efficient political tool that has been used many a time
throughout history. There is a policeman inside all of our heads and he
must be destroyed (phrase from Adam Curtis' documentary The Century of the Self )
what you've said epitomizes this perspective and unfortunately it's a
common feeling. You'll have to explain to all of the hospital workers who
strike and do succeed why what they've done is bad. You'll have to tell
all the people throughout history who've come up against such BS in the
past and succeeded that the chance of people getting rowdy in a
protest was in fact a good enough reason not to protest.

People have every right to rebel when they're being screwed, oh and lets
talk about the few shoes and eggs thrown at Tony Blair, the media made
them all out to be out for blood and violent rabble rousers,
who benefited from that characterization? Think about it