Ground Zero Mosque

Podman · 23-07-2010 02:29PM

The thing is, if you start building stuff, mosque or not, then eventually you'd build more stuff around it. And for the survivors, all that is left of what their lives were, is the memorial at ground zero.

This video is testimony of a firefighter who was in the first tower.

Memnoch · 23-07-2010 02:39PM

chompy wrote: »

The thing is, if you start building stuff, mosque or not, then eventually you'd build more stuff around it. And for the survivors, all that is left of what their lives were, is the memorial at ground zero.

This video is testimony of a firefighter who was in the first tower.

err, so your contention is that NOTHING should be built in a two block radius from ground zero?

Permabear · 23-07-2010 02:48PM

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Memnoch · 23-07-2010 02:55PM

donegalfella wrote: »

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Your dodging the issue with semantics.

Just answer the question straight out. Do you think there is a valid reason other than discrimination for why this mosque would not be allowed to be built?

Podman · 23-07-2010 03:14PM

Memnoch, you sound excited enough to go build the Mosque yourself..

Memnoch · 23-07-2010 03:25PM

Ironically, I'd prefer if religion ceased to exist entirely.

But discrimination, and such obvious and open examples of it really take the jam out of my doughnut.

Permabear · 23-07-2010 03:51PM

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Memnoch · 23-07-2010 04:04PM

donegalfella wrote: »

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All this constitutional stuff usually ends up coming down to which side of the fence the judges are leaning on anyway and seems to get interpreted and reinterpreted.

My understanding is that the mosque construction was a go, until the latest outrage. So if it is now stopped, I can only conclude it is a result of this outrage, which screams discrimination to me.

Permabear · 23-07-2010 05:49PM

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Podman · 23-07-2010 07:22PM

Of all the buildings that could go there (library, school, hospital, fire house, chipper, bowling alley, etc), a Mosque is perhaps the most likely to provoke controversy and hostility.

In my opinion, it only serves to further associate the 911 events with the Muslim community in an aura of contempt. They did it in Nazi Germany before WW2 with the Jews.

Memnoch · 23-07-2010 07:29PM

So building a mosque in order to practise your faith 2 blocks away from ground zero is now akin to the masacre of innocent jews by the Nazi regime?

Podman · 23-07-2010 07:44PM

Memnoch wrote: »

So building a mosque in order to practise your faith 2 blocks away from ground zero is now akin to the masacre of innocent jews by the Nazi regime?

That's not what I'm saying at all, your twisting my post to ridicule it. That's twice now you've done that, so your being reported.

Memnoch · 23-07-2010 10:15PM

chompy wrote: »

That's not what I'm saying at all, your twisting my post to ridicule it. That's twice now you've done that, so your being reported.

Let's see, you said that the situation with Muslims wanting to build this mosque is analogous to what happened in Nazi Germany.

No, I don't think I misrepresented your ridicule-ous post at all. Report away.

nesf · 23-07-2010 11:09PM

Please don't report a person because they've responded to you in a way you dislike.

Podman · 23-07-2010 11:13PM

Memnoch wrote: »

Let's see, you said that the situation with Muslims wanting to build this mosque is analogous to what happened in Nazi Germany.

No, I don't think I misrepresented your ridicule-ous post at all. Report away.

No.
My post is not about Muslims practicing their faith or building a Mosque.
It's not about the massacre of Jews either.

It's about Racial Profiling.
It's about setting up an ethnic group as the enemy to justify a war.

All you have to do is read the post properly, the first time.

Podman · 24-07-2010 12:08AM

nesf wrote: »

Please don't report a person because they've responded to you in a way you dislike.

His mocking tone is only part of the reason I reported him..

You must remember that Americans have been conditioned to hate Muslim Terrorists, and be suspicious of all Muslims, for the past ten years.

What I said was..

chompy wrote: »

Of all the buildings that could go there (library, school, hospital, fire house, chipper, bowling alley, etc), a Mosque is perhaps the most likely to provoke controversy and hostility.

In my opinion, it only serves to further associate the 911 events with the Muslim community in an aura of contempt. They did it in Nazi Germany before WW2 with the Jews.

I think I made a clear enough point, I worded the post as best I could for what I meant.

He replied..

Memnoch wrote: »

So building a mosque in order to practise your faith 2 blocks away from ground zero is now akin to the masacre of innocent jews by the Nazi regime?

By stating his own version of what I wrote, he implied that I meant...

Building a hated symbol near the site of the attack is the same as ordinary Muslims performing daily prayers, AND
Nazi propaganda before WW2 is the same as a Jewish massacre during it

These misrepresentations change the entire meaning, and therefore I believe I am justified in reporting him.

Memnoch · 24-07-2010 12:08AM

chompy wrote: »

No.
My post is not about Muslims practicing their faith or building a Mosque.
It's not about the massacre of Jews either.

It's about Racial Profiling.
It's about setting up an ethnic group as the enemy to justify a war.

All you have to do is read the post properly, the first time.

Okay, now I'm confused, so you're implying that the Jews shouldn't have done anything to offend the Nazi's that ended up in them being racially profiled?

Or that the Irish should have kept a low profile in Britain during the troubles so as to not get racially profiled etc. etc.?

Podman · 24-07-2010 12:22AM

Memnoch wrote: »

Okay, now I'm confused, so you're implying that the Jews shouldn't have done anything to offend the Nazi's that ended up in them being racially profiled?

Or that the Irish should have kept a low profile in Britain during the troubles so as to not get racially profiled etc. etc.?

I don't think we're talking about the same thing.

If your going to read quickly through a post, then imagine they said something completely different and make a ridiculous argument regardless, then there's not much point in me trying to explain things logically to you. Is there?

I'm going to do us both a favour and just not bother replying in future. That way, you won't have to get reported again, and I won't have to get heartburn.

JohnMc1 · 24-07-2010 12:36AM

chompy wrote: »

His mocking tone is only part of the reason I reported him..

You must remember that Americans have been conditioned to hate Muslim Terrorists, and be suspicious of all Muslims, for the past ten years.

Regardless of where you stand politically, religiously or anything else. Its in very poor taste to build a mosque so close to Ground Zero the symbol of Muslim extremism. Surely there is plenty of other spots in NYC to build one.

Memnoch · 24-07-2010 12:49AM

What does a mosque where PEACEFUL muslims want to pray have to do with muslim extremism? Surely the Mosque is a powerful symbol and show of solidarity by the muslim population of new york, showing where their loyalties lie.

Unless you're some kind of extremist yourself that is prejudiced against Muslims to begin with, which I believe most of these idiot protesters are.

Also to Chopy: I quiver at the prospect of your reportage so please, please, pretty please don't report me again.

Black Swan · 24-07-2010 12:56AM

NYC Mayor Bloomberg zeros in on Sarah Palin

Vid link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDVhT8kcZ5Y

Podman · 24-07-2010 01:12AM

Black Swan · 24-07-2010 01:18AM

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Regardless of where you stand politically, religiously or anything else. Its in very poor taste to build a mosque so close to Ground Zero the symbol of Muslim extremism. Surely there is plenty of other spots in NYC to build one.

The proposed mosque is 2 blocks from ground zero. Can you number precisely how many blocks away from ground zero would not be in "poor taste?" 3 blocks? 4 blocks? 5 blocks? 6 blocks? 7 blocks? Or how many blocks? Number?

Do these victims count? Should we only be sensitive to the feelings of Christians, Jews, etc., but not Muslims (of Islamic religion)?
Partial List of Muslim 9/11 Victims:

Samad Afridi
Ashraf Ahmad
Shabbir Ahmad (45 years old; Windows on the World; leaves wife and 3 children)
Umar Ahmad
Azam Ahsan
Ahmed Ali
Tariq Amanullah (40 years old; Fiduciary Trust Co.; ICNA website team member; leaves wife and 2 children)
Touri Bolourchi (69 years old; United Airlines #175; a retired nurse from Tehran)
Salauddin Ahmad Chaudhury
Abdul K. Chowdhury (30 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald)
Mohammad S. Chowdhury (39 years old; Windows on the World; leaves wife and child born 2 days after the attack)
Jamal Legesse Desantis
Ramzi Attallah Douani (35 years old; Marsh & McLennan)
SaleemUllah Farooqi
Syed Fatha (54 years old; Pitney Bowes)
Osman Gani
Mohammad Hamdani (50 years old)
Salman Hamdani (NYPD Cadet)
Aisha Harris (21 years old; General Telecom)
Shakila Hoque (Marsh & McLennan)
Nabid Hossain
Shahzad Hussain
Talat Hussain
Mohammad Shah Jahan (Marsh & McLennan)
Yasmeen Jamal
Mohammed Jawarta (MAS security)
Arslan Khan Khakwani
Asim Khan
Ataullah Khan
Ayub Khan
Qasim Ali Khan
Sarah Khan (32 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald)
Taimour Khan (29 years old; Karr Futures)
Yasmeen Khan
Zahida Khan
Badruddin Lakhani
Omar Malick
Nurul Hoque Miah (36 years old)
Mubarak Mohammad (23 years old)
Boyie Mohammed (Carr Futures)
Raza Mujtaba
Omar Namoos
Mujeb Qazi
Tarranum Rahim
Ehtesham U. Raja (28 years old)
Ameenia Rasool (33 years old)
Naveed Rehman
Yusuf Saad
Rahma Salie & unborn child (28 years old; American Airlines #11; wife of Michael Theodoridis; 7 months pregnant)
Shoman Samad
Asad Samir
Khalid Shahid (25 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald; engaged to be married in November)
Mohammed Shajahan (44 years old; Marsh & McLennan)
Naseema Simjee (Franklin Resources Inc.'s Fiduciary Trust)
Jamil Swaati
Sanober Syed
Robert Elias Talhami (40 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald)
Michael Theodoridis (32 years old; American Airlines #11; husband of Rahma Salie)
W. Wahid

Source: http://islam.about.com/blvictims.htm

kev9100 · 24-07-2010 02:55AM

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Regardless of where you stand politically, religiously or anything else. Its in very poor taste to build a mosque so close to Ground Zero the symbol of Muslim extremism. Surely there is plenty of other spots in NYC to build one.

Why? The vast majority of Muslims loathe the extremists and just want a place to worship. Why shouldn't they be allowed to worship in this particular spot?

Permabear · 24-07-2010 11:48AM

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ei.sdraob · 24-07-2010 11:55AM

donegalfella wrote: »

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I remember watching US channels back in early 00s
They didn't try to hide the

Islam == Terrorism

message

Unfortunately there are people in US (as everywhere and here in Ireland) who are malleable by the media opinions.

JohnMc1 · 24-07-2010 12:55PM

Memnoch wrote: »

What does a mosque where PEACEFUL muslims want to pray have to do with muslim extremism? Surely the Mosque is a powerful symbol and show of solidarity by the muslim population of new york, showing where their loyalties lie.

Unless you're some kind of extremist yourself that is prejudiced against Muslims to begin with, which I believe most of these idiot protesters are.

Also to Chopy: I quiver at the prospect of your reportage so please, please, pretty please don't report me again.

I knew someone would stoop to the race card eventually.:rolleyes:

Overheal · 24-07-2010 02:01PM

JohnMc1 wrote: »

I knew someone would stoop to the race card eventually.:rolleyes:

greetings johnmc1, im sure youve successfully avoided this forum long enough for me to forget all the hard questions you've evaded in the last month or two. well done.

now another: can you kindly tell me the difference between racism and sectarianism? Thanks.

Memnoch · 24-07-2010 02:09PM

chompy wrote: »

Manipulating the image of the Statue of liberty - a symbol of tolerance and acceptance - to generalise an entire populace and faith as extreme and thus worthy of marginalisation and segregation thus eschewing the very principles of liberty. One has to wonder at the intellectual environment that gives rise to such fertile irony.

Podman · 24-07-2010 02:28PM

Memnoch wrote: »

Manipulating the image of the Statue of liberty - a symbol of tolerance and acceptance - to generalise an entire populace and faith as extreme and thus worthy of marginalisation and segregation thus eschewing the very principles of liberty. One has to wonder at the intellectual environment that gives rise to such fertile irony.

Classic :rolleyes:

What do you hope to achieve from such an angry rant?

Ground Zero Mosque

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