Pro-car bias on Infrastructure forum?

People can relate more easily to road/rail construction as opposed to electricity/gas/wind farms/broadband/nuclear etc. Personally I wouldn't comment on a thread relating to any of these topics, I'd rather read the opinions of people that appear to know what they're talking about!

The reality of this country is that we're pro-car and this is reflected on boards. I think the condition of our roads in the past and the excitement and pride of having a few decent motorways in our country may also explain the bias here.

I wish all of you guys (including your good self, etchyed) would copy all your posts above to this thread to keep the idea alive at least!

The forum is road obsessed, but not uncritically so. You'd still get a lot of opposition to proposals for an M24 or an M72 (and even the M9), for instance. Also, I suspect for a lot of people it isn't so much cars that they're rooting for as the roads themselves. I know it's... er, unusual, but cars themselves are very rarley mentioned around here - instead the road as an engineering feat is often the subject of great interest. In addition, connectivity and SAFETY in transport are major themes here.

There has been only one anti-road poster here over the years - Lennoxeschips - but he's gone now. I actually wish he'd come back.

And while there might appear to be a bias, it isn't deliberate. It's just that all posters here are generally pro road-building. There's no conspiracy to keep others out. They can come in if they want.

I think there was a thread either here or on C&T discussing a possible Luas Proposal for Cork. And then there's Gluas.

I think some discussion on that might be good.

DART Underground, I'd love to see more discussion, but until we get the Railway Order and reference drawings, there isn't much more that can be discussed, we just wait for further tidbits to fuel our speculation.

Metro North I was meaning to make a thread on. I'd like a good big thread for it.

Simply put though, I think as a forum, our collective knowledge on other infrastructure, will probably increase as time goes by and we seek new discussions. I mean, part of why I think roads are discussed (and a few people have mentioned this) are because everyone can offer something on them, you don't need lots of knowledge. Most people can relate to rail and roads, so let's get some more rail threads in here.

Another topic of interest, that could do with more attention is flood infrastructure, I know there was a thread or two and I'd like to dig them back up. Because regardless of the specifics of it, I think everyone wonders "how well prepared are we?". What flood defenses do you have locally? I mean, there's a lot that can be discussed without having to actually know TONNES about the infrastructure, that knowledge can be developed in time. How bout civic infrastructure like schools and hospitals? No expert knowledge required there to offer an opinion on them.

That's only scratching the surface of what we could discuss here, and I think these are interesting topics that we just need to get ourselves engaged with more. I think part of the reason people don't post is that they don't feel they'll even get a reply, so maybe if we all made a bit more effort to offer an opinion, it'd have a positive impact.

Those would be my suggestions, other than that, this forum will remain road-biased for the foreseeable future. Roads are the most prominent form of infrastructure being constructed at the moment. If and when MN and DART Underground start, after the road buzz dies down, you can bet that big discussions on those will take place.

Dublin Airport and Lansdowne Road also have sizeable threads.

I think this is a great forum with intelligent, interesting people, and together we can develop new discussions and broaden our range. I have confidence that this is what will happen over time.

etchyed wrote: »

To begin, let me acknowledge that I'm a newbie round here. I have, however, been reading these boards for quite a long time.

Since the transfer of all the road scheme threads here, it seems to me that Commuting and Transport and Infrastructure are essentially functioning as Public Transport and Roads forums respectively. The members who post on these forums do overlap somewhat but posters here seem to generally be pro-road building, pro-car and rarely is there any debate on the merit of all the road building that's going on in this country at the moment.

This often leads to bizarre pro-car statements that are left unquestioned as they are simply part of the culture on this board. One example that springs to mind is on a recent thread discussing the lack of road-building projects in the UK, a poster said something to the effect of "they expect you to take trains over there." As if that was somehow bizarre!

Another example is the current Slane bypass thread. I agree it should be built but the tone of disdain towards those who don't is actually quite shocking in my opinion.

Compare this to C&T, where the lack of investment in rail and the long-fingering of public transport projects such as DART Underground are often bemoaned.

There seems to be a large contingent of posters here who want new roads with shiny blue signs and don't really question the necessity for them. Personally I quite like the shiny blue signs too and I do find it quite exciting that we're going to have a proper motorway network by the end of the year. On the other hand I find the state of public transport in this country depressing. There seems to be a gulf of opinion on this, with few people in the middle. It's a shame that the structure of boards (unintentionally) facilitates the widening of this gulf. As far as I can tell, people stick to their own area of interest.

I realise that there are a good deal of exceptions to what I've described above, one of which is the stickying of the DART Underground thread here but I'm talking about the general overall picture. I also realise that the very fact that so many roads are being built means that it's inevitable this forum will be very roads-heavy. Basically, this isn't a meant as a criticism of mods, just a general observation of a trend that has developed.

...they are fair enough points!

I would probably sound like one of the most extreme pro-car posters, but it's not that I'm so pro-car, it's just that I totally resent people like mostly foreign "eco/heritage" activists trying to dictate how we should live our lives in Ireland - I see their aggression as an act of war on this state!

Also, people like Frank McDonald get far too much publicity - I remember him in the 1990's when he screamed out anti-car BS. AFAIK, he did walk to work - a massive trek from Temple Bar to where the Irish Times were in D-Olier Street - if this is correct, one can see how easy it is to bash motorists when you don't have any commuting to do - I wouldn't consider a short stroll as commuting.

In fact, I have to commute about 30 miles to work and I get the bus, train and even walk - I will have actually clocked about 4 miles on foot today. I now learning to drive, but I'll only be car commuting for the first 3 miles to the station, where I'll get a train for most of the way and then walk the final 2 miles. I now use rural transport for the short trip to the bus/train, but I'm one of the few people who actually uses this service, so it probably won't last - even if I had my driving, I'd still try and use it! In any case, the commute is pretty hard work, wheter it's by bus, train, car, cycling (I know plenty about that!) or foot (good exercise though).

Now about transport in general, my view is that there is a vital place for both public and private transport in our society. IMO, buses should get priorty on the motorways near cities during the morning rush, while the motorways would revert to serving mostly private transport for the rest of the day. For example, I'm of the view that the M1 urgently needs widening to a dual 3 lane motorway in from Lissenhall (J4), but the extra lane (on the inside) should only be used for buses and freight traffic from about 6am to 10am weekdays. These 3 lanes (each way) should operate normally at any other time. I also think that roads like the M1 should be 130kph (only off peak near Dublin) while single deck buses might be allowed travel at 90kph.

Regarding rail, the Dart Interconnector should be made a priority, while the LUAS network should be expanded - I sometimes use the Green Line and I have to say, it's great - the way public transport should be in cities. I'm not sure about Metro North - should it be a longer term objective? - I'm undecided.

Finally, I would be disgusted if any of our major heritage sites were destroyed, but we simply can't keep every little piece of the past around every little corner - I'm not suggesting that you are of that opinion, but I'm just stating that common sense has to apply. IMO, your post is pretty much common sense as well - but poses good questions that have to be answered! In doing so, I'm stating that even if posts such as mine are extreme, it may be directed at one particular aspect, like those mentioned in the first 2 paragraphs.

Good Post Mate!

Regards!

fresca wrote: »

This comment is soley is based on experiences in dublin, london, paris, etc, etc, etc.

That's definitely a curious question. I mean, given a choice between a cheaper, and possibly more frequent bus, and waiting for a train, why do most pick the train is an interesting question.

However, I think in many cases, if a train system works as it's meant to, it'll get you from A to B, quicker than a bus, and that's probably the reason for a lot of people.

ForiegnNational wrote: »

For the record, Furet started this tread on Cork Luas on C&T

Ah, so he did.

I think perhaps an expanded discussion on Luas for Cork, Galway, Limerick and Waterford could be created here.

While I wouldn't think the latter three would be viable, and would even question the second, it would still make for an interesting speculative discussion.