The Witch and the Dog R**ist

Varik · 30-11-2009 11:03PM #1

http://www.penny-arcade.com/2009/11/30/

There is a build in Modern Warfare 2 - Tactical Knife, Commando, Marathon, and Lightweight - that we have taken to calling the Witch. They are so called because this nefarious combination results in half-human abominations that can a) run faster than normal, forever, b) fall without damage, and c) teleport to targets killing them instantly. If you're wondering what something like this is doing in a "shooter," whose name ostensibly delineates the standard mode of interaction, well, let us know what you come up with. We're thinking about starting a support group.

Looking at the rest of the game, the knife is designed to be a reset. Like two misbehaving children, the use of it puts space between the two players, reverting to the optimal ranges of interdiction. Gears of War offers a similar mode of resolution, but in exchange for your chainsaw kill, you've got several seconds of full paralysis while the animation plays out - a few seconds you typically don't survive. By contrast, in Modern Warfare 2 - a game which, whatever liberties it took during its narrative, is not actually science fiction - allows players of infinite stamina to teleport and murder people.

The game's entire knife dialectic exists outside of the game proper. There are so many ways to make fine adjustments to your damage output with firearms that blades doing what is essentially infinite damage makes the rest of the game look like kabuki.

As mad as I'd like to be at these wicked sorcerers, I can't be - not really. All they've done is turn the game's subtext into the focus. They haven't modified any binaries. They're simply playing the game as delivered. We lost a single round to these kinds of tactics, and haven't lost another, but they turn it into some other game I don't have a lot of interest in. I wouldn't like it if a Chaos Marine drop pod landed on Highrise, either. Actually, that might be okay.

I'll get back to you.

Don't forget that in Medal Of Honor: Allied Assault - back when the guys who would found Infinity Ward were still at 2015, Inc - the retail build of the game allowed you to use the single player cheats in online games. You had to pull down the console and enter in a few words of power, as was customary in those days. Perhaps this is merely the evolution of this philosophy; a sort of populist, turnkey dominion.

(CW)TB out.

Risteard · 30-11-2009 11:07PM

I use all those perks in my main class except for tactical knife, I use throwing knives. And a lot of my kills are knife kills.

People don't seem to like this?

Dcully · 30-11-2009 11:16PM

Commando is possibly the most ridiculous perk ever in MW series.
I mean it magically extends ones arms to swing a knife at a distance greater longer than a bloody spear would reach :rolleyes:
To me this perk is ten times worse than martyrdom,last stand etc.

LD 50 · 30-11-2009 11:24PM

Hmmm, must try this out though, just to see if its the evil unstoppable abomination everyone says it is.

wandatowell · 30-11-2009 11:26PM

It is very frustrating indeed,

Varik · 30-11-2009 11:28PM

just to say try it out in team games like ctf or sabotage

FutureGuy · 01-12-2009 09:40AM

Ohh I'm going to try this.

Oafley Jones · 01-12-2009 10:01AM

Varik wrote: »

http://www.penny-arcade.com/2009/11/30/

There is a build in Modern Warfare 2 - Tactical Knife, Commando, Marathon, and Lightweight - that we have taken to calling the Witch. They are so called because this nefarious combination results in half-human abominations that can a) run faster than normal, forever, b) fall without damage, and c) teleport to targets killing them instantly. If you're wondering what something like this is doing in a "shooter," whose name ostensibly delineates the standard mode of interaction, well, let us know what you come up with. We're thinking about starting a support group.

Looking at the rest of the game, the knife is designed to be a reset. Like two misbehaving children, the use of it puts space between the two players, reverting to the optimal ranges of interdiction. Gears of War offers a similar mode of resolution, but in exchange for your chainsaw kill, you've got several seconds of full paralysis while the animation plays out - a few seconds you typically don't survive. By contrast, in Modern Warfare 2 - a game which, whatever liberties it took during its narrative, is not actually science fiction - allows players of infinite stamina to teleport and murder people.

The game's entire knife dialectic exists outside of the game proper. There are so many ways to make fine adjustments to your damage output with firearms that blades doing what is essentially infinite damage makes the rest of the game look like kabuki.

As mad as I'd like to be at these wicked sorcerers, I can't be - not really. All they've done is turn the game's subtext into the focus. They haven't modified any binaries. They're simply playing the game as delivered. We lost a single round to these kinds of tactics, and haven't lost another, but they turn it into some other game I don't have a lot of interest in. I wouldn't like it if a Chaos Marine drop pod landed on Highrise, either. Actually, that might be okay.

I'll get back to you.

Don't forget that in Medal Of Honor: Allied Assault - back when the guys who would found Infinity Ward were still at 2015, Inc - the retail build of the game allowed you to use the single player cheats in online games. You had to pull down the console and enter in a few words of power, as was customary in those days. Perhaps this is merely the evolution of this philosophy; a sort of populist, turnkey dominion.

(CW)TB out.

Christ, that reads likes an excerpt from an undergrad's dissertation. Can't argue with it though.

weisses · 01-12-2009 10:41AM

MW2 is a big failure imo after playing MoH into the cod series they come up with this piece of c***p ... its not about gameplay its about ranking up got killed with those perks a couple of times ...seriously thought they were cheaters

Now i understand why they didn't let many pc reviewers test the game before release

craze7 · 01-12-2009 02:23PM

I played about 4 games against on of thoes "Witch's" last night and i was cracking!!!! I was actually just trying to hunt him down and kill him, even running by other enemies in the process.

They can run over Claymores and through bullets and still stab you!

KillerBoots_Man · 01-12-2009 11:33PM

As I pointed out to a friend yesterday, I'll take an M16 assault rifle and you take that combat knife... Now run at me as fast as you like, we'll see who'll last longer.

According to the lagfested, marathon man, lightweight, commando perked, tactical knife inclined IW game designers I'll lose 99.9% of the time.

Really?

LD 50 · 01-12-2009 11:48PM

That only works if he's running at you head on and you see him.
But in those situations where you're both coming round a corner, who's going to be the one still standing after.

And what happens when you run to your favourite spot, but the other guy has "teleported" there and knifes you.

Lukekul · 02-12-2009 09:55AM

I've been using that class since nearly the start, it's great fun in favela because with marathon pro you have no falling damage, there's nothing like flying out of the sky and stabbing some one. Quarry is good too if you keep away from open areas. I use the riot shield with it, great when some smart arse tries stabbing you in the back

Varik · 02-12-2009 01:14PM

the riot sheild makes you very slow

Lukekul · 02-12-2009 01:27PM

riot shield is grand on your back

armour87 · 03-12-2009 10:07AM

I think 'teleporting around the map' is milking it beyond belief. A slightly longer melee attack, with a lock-on similar to Halo isn't teleporting.

And if your so incensed as to make a thread about it, why not counter there Commando with a heartbeat sensor or counter Lightweight with a thermal scope?

Notorious · 03-12-2009 02:22PM

Just finished a free for all map a few minutes ago where I came up against my first 'witch'. Damn was he annoying. He just kept running in behind me and knifing me in the back. That or he'd dodge my bullets. The little guy won too!

Varik · 03-12-2009 02:23PM

armour87 wrote: »

I think 'teleporting around the map' is milking it beyond belief. A slightly longer melee attack, with a lock-on similar to Halo isn't teleporting.

And if your so incensed as to make a thread about it, why not counter there Commando with a heartbeat sensor or counter Lightweight with a thermal scope?

i am one of the people doing it.

just to add if 2 of these people meet it's funny as hell, especially on Afghan with the plane and cliff to jump off and fight in mid air

all the initial post was from penny arcade, i even posted the link at the start

citizen_p · 05-12-2009 04:14PM

i dont get knifed much....stop camping and it wont happen.....
i only use command to avoid falling damage...

Dcully · 05-12-2009 04:24PM

Mousey- wrote: »

i dont get knifed much....stop camping and it wont happen.....
i only use command to avoid falling damage...

Define camping.
If im defending a flag in Domination or defending the bomb site in demolition am i camping in your eyes?

craze7 · 05-12-2009 04:47PM

True that!!! People call you a camper if your in the same building for over 30 seconds in this game! To me a camper is somebody who crouches in the corner of a room and sits with the gun pointed at the door killing people and is still in the same place after you respawn and go back looking for them!

Oafley Jones · 05-12-2009 05:08PM

Mousey- wrote: »

i dont get knifed much....stop camping and it wont happen.....
i only use command to avoid falling damage...

eh? Most of my knife kills come from coming around corners or running up and stabbing some unsuspecting customer in the back. I've only had a handful of cases where I gutted someone who was staring down a scope.

Blazer · 05-12-2009 10:25PM

using this from the start as well...great fun although the novelty wears off...
I'm still having double the fun with dual glock 18s with extended mags

jtsuited · 05-12-2009 11:57PM

this and the akimbo 1887's is really annoying. i tried out the witch setup the other night and it was so easy but so boring.

serious flaw in balancing the game imo. so much worse than martyrdom, juggernaut, 3 frag, etc.

Snake Plisken · 06-12-2009 12:05AM

ok so I've tried this I've always been a knifer even on WAW, I've been using this for a week without the tactical knife and i was doing great, lots of complaints from my mates about stabbing them from about 10 feet away, so today I stuck on tactical knife and find it's not as good anyone else find that? I still find I die loads of times buts its good for us knifers

brian plank · 06-12-2009 12:36AM

between people running around with lightweight and commando and the javelin bug this game is getting old fast.

Sealclubber · 07-12-2009 10:14AM

Haha, the reaction to this is gas. I'm a proud tactical knifer, and steadfastly refuse to use bullets even on maps like Afghan and Wasteland(which rarely ends well for me). I'm going to give advice which is detrimental to me but I feel the power of tactical knifers is ridiculously overstated by people. If you know there to be a knifer on the map;

(a) Arm your shotgun when entering enclosed spaces. We can't handle that ****.
(b) If possible, stay away from enclosed spaces altogether. I lurk predominantly around buildings and I love nothing more than a team who tries to hole up in that house in Estate.
(c) Listen for footsteps. A lot of people don't bother doing this in general but it really helps. Knowing which direction he's coming from and how close he is is a massive advantage. Plus we're really easy to hear coming because our footsteps are faster.
(d) Don't pursue us if we kill you once, frustratedly looking for vengeance. We prefer people coming to us. In general, trying to get revenge on people always ends up in frustration and has been the reason for some very horrid experiences for me.
(e)You have a GUN. It's got many distinct advantages over a knife that I don't think I need to elaborate on.

And that's about it. I rack up class scores because most of the teams I seem to play are stupid and don't adapt. They go into the same rooms, they actively look for the me etc. But every now and again I run into people who immediately cop on and just alter their play slightly and send me on a one-way ticket to negative-ratioville.

Dacian · 07-12-2009 07:19PM

Sealclubber wrote: »

...........I'm a proud tactical knifer, and steadfastly refuse to use bullets even on maps like Afghan and Wasteland(which rarely ends well for me)............

At least he is admitting it....Sealclubber suits you as a name.

Are you Xbox360, just so I can i avoid your playertag?

c0rk3r · 07-12-2009 07:32PM

Bringing a knife to a nuke fight ?

The enemy can not push the button if you disable his hand

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1HcOVTrLRs

Sealclubber · 07-12-2009 11:21PM

Dacian wrote: »

At least he is admitting it....Sealclubber suits you as a name.

Are you Xbox360, just so I can i avoid your playertag?

I am. I'm sure the odds of us meeting are slim though, what with the millions of other people who play the game.

citizen_p · 08-12-2009 01:55AM

i hate the duel 1887's....what "modern" military uses them?

ive started witching......

its quite fun actully....i havnt made a class....i just use the default one (so no commando pro) but it is still easy enough....especially on skid row.....
for any other map im still an m4 guy..

The Witch and the Dog R**ist

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