Floods and New Infastructure

westtip · 23-11-2009 12:35pm #1

I have put a thread on Commuting and Transport about the N4 floods in Carrick on Shannon more for travel information than anything else

But here is a thought for infrastructure

Used the N4 up and down to Dublin this weekend allowed plenty of extra time on Friday and needed it the N4 has been flooded all weekend on the stretch between Tesco and the first town roundabout (ie the stretch of road with poplar trees either side, between the two roundabouts you hit coming into Carrick from the Dublin side). On Friday night took an hour to get through Carrick via a diversion round the back of the town and MBNA.

There was also a flood in the car park of the at the new hotel the Landmark on the riverside at Carrick which the N4 runs alongside, which this morning closed half of the N4 - Dublin bound traffic was being diverted through the town, Sligo bound traffic was just about passabled on the one side of the road anymore rain and it will get worse.

I also noted that the apartments on the right hand side as you head out towards Sligo on the west side of the Shannon in Cortober seemed to be flooded on the ground floor, and the shopping centre just beyond with the Centra in was also flooded. The field beside Tesco which is a piece of development land with a huge Sold sign on was under about 4 foot of water - Did Leitrim Coco rezone this as development land? It just made me think about developer perhaps who bought that land and why was it rezoned?

How many county councils around the country have allowed so much building in places that so obviously will flood? Is part of what we are looking at on our TV screens due to bad planning, bad drainage infrastructure and just overall incompetence on the part of our beloved benchmarked planners?

Zoney · 23-11-2009 1:10pm

Although we have yet to experience the effects of the Shannon (later today perhaps) due to the delay/barrier of Ardnacrusha, the effect of the downpours on Limerick roads compared to usual was notably reduced. It seems simply cleaning out the drains/gullies was enough to avoid the usual flooding on the likes of the Ballysimon and Dock Roads (the latter may however be flooded by the Shannon if the volume of water that arrives later is cataclysmic).

I don't know that flooding would have been avoided, but it may have been less if development hadn't occurred on necessary flood plains. New defences in Mallow and Kilkenny also seem to show that at least for the scale of things here in Ireland, it is at least perfectly possible to protect existing urban development however close to rivers. However, there are also situations like that gallery in UCC where the developments have been flooded due to their inherent situation. Who on earth dreamt up the idea of locating the gallery there, especially with keeping art in the basement? Were they actually thinking at all?

I think even if development was curtailed, places like Ennis, Fermoy, etc. are going to get flooded every so often and need flood defences.

KevR · 23-11-2009 11:53pm

It said on the news yesterday that Brian Cowen pledged an extra €50 million per annum in flood defence spending. Anyone know what the figure was prior to this €50m increase?

What will €50 million really get in terms of flood defences?

Certainly large towns and major road and rail routes near rivers should be priority for getting additional flood protection, not fields or one off houses. The thing problem with protecting one area is that the water has to go somewhere. I don't think Craughwell ever flooded like that before but apparently there was an area (don't ask me to name it) further up stream that used to flood regular. Flood defences were put in place in this other area recently and Craughwell got the flood this year..

L1011 · 24-11-2009 12:01am

Carrick on Shannon's expansion has been outwards on to the flood plains of the Shannon mostly, it was inevitable that they'd flood.

As it was the "bypass" road was impassible in winter a few times in my childhood, as was the road out to Boyle on one occasion; in relatively 'normal' rainfalls at that. Nowhere for water to go + heavier rain = worse floods, simple as.

BluntGuy · 24-11-2009 2:20am

KevR wrote: »

What will €50 million really get in terms of flood defences?

Compared to the flood defences Ireland needs - to put it bluntly - f**k all.

Methinks Mr Cowen pulled that figure out of a hat just so he could make it look as though he was taking decisive action. But we'll see come budget day.

24-11-2009 2:53am

The simple and sensible answer is Don't build on flood plains!
Ok it may only be once in ten (twenty- thirty) years or so, but is the damage and distress worth it, plus we now have insurance companies that are looking at the recent floods and refusing to insure for floods in those areas.

It's not as if Ireland is short of land! Holland has fewer problems with flooding than us, they just don't allow building on land that can't be protected against floods(ignoring catastrophic failures of dijks or pumps).

b4nd1t · 24-11-2009 11:27am

couldnt agree more that 0 should be spent on flood defenses by the government.

all of the companies, private residences and government organisations who built on this flood prone land should claim from their insurance and then pay higher premiums for their negligence.

the state has no business subsidising others stupidity...:eek:

bk · 24-11-2009 5:13pm

b4nd1t wrote: »

the state has no business subsidising others stupidity...:eek:

Yes and no, obviously new developments fair enough, but Cork City Centre was built on a flood plain over a thousand years ago. In fact Cork city use to be like Venice, with canals running down many of the streets. You can still see the boat tie ups on some of the old buildings.

westtip · 24-11-2009 5:30pm

MYOB wrote: »

Carrick on Shannon's expansion has been outwards on to the flood plains of the Shannon mostly, it was inevitable that they'd flood.

As it was the "bypass" road was impassible in winter a few times in my childhood, as was the road out to Boyle on one occasion; in relatively 'normal' rainfalls at that. Nowhere for water to go + heavier rain = worse floods, simple as.

How is Carrick today with this further rain we have been having?

silverharp · 24-11-2009 7:38pm

I was reading a few articles on the flooding of New Orleans in 1927. They managed to turn the original 4 ft levees into 36 ft as they silted up which I guess effectlively put the city below sea level.
It does make me wonder if there should ever be centralised infrastructure provided as it does seem to create a big moral hazard, as some get free gains and other are left carrying the can.

brandon_flowers · 25-11-2009 12:37am

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/office-of-public-works-opw-slammed-for-rush-to-give-out-flood-relief-1480428.html

I cant find the follow up article from May this year where it stated that the 9 million would not be spent this year and had basically been lost from the OPW's budget.
Only remember it now because I was working on the Flood Drainage Scheme in Ennis at the time.

Floods and New Infastructure

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