Face the facts

ih8northsiders · 14-10-2009 3:34am #1

ireland is a sparsley populated island. it doesnt warrant an excellent connected transport system. it is a poor isolated country. this might be tough but its true. ok im belgian(parents are irish) and i see this with my own two eyes. you can't expect a transport system and stuff like we have in belgium which is a densley populated nation on a massive landmass connected to big cities, so i suggest you somehow raise population or stop compaining:)

14-10-2009 4:39am

OK! I'll bite!

I don't believe that anyone here is expecting a transport system like Belgium (much of which is passing through anyway), just a decent interurban system of the type that is expected in all developed countries.

No one expects a frequent five hourly bus service to remote villages, do any remote villages exist in Belgium?

Urban areas can and should have an integrated transport system, there are many provincial town in Europe that have a similar population density to Dublin which have much better infrasture. I was recently in Birmingham similar size and population, the road system in the city centre is miles ahead of that in Dublin.

It can be improved, it should be improved - it probably won't be improved

Enbee · 14-10-2009 8:48am

Adaline Victorious Wool wrote: »

I don't believe that anyone here is expecting a transport system like Belgium (much of which is passing through anyway)

Tsk! Belgium is a nation - not a road!

Sponge Bob · 14-10-2009 9:38am

Anyone ( even a troll) with any intelligence knows that Belgium is a state , not a nation

ForiegnNational · 14-10-2009 11:57am

I am also not Irish (wife and children are, but not me), so here is my tuppence worth...

Ireland has absolutely no excuse for the shockingly poor state of it's infrastructure.

Capita per square kilometer is very low (following table from here):

Country Population Area (Sq Km) People per sq km
Holland 16,715,999 41,543 402
Belgium 10,414,336 30,528 341
UK & NI 61,113,205 243,610 251
Spain 40,525,002 505,370 80
Ireland 4,203,200 70,273 60

(Can somebody tell me how to get tables formatted correctly please....)

Therefore any comparison to Belgium for infrastructure is simply unfair due to the huge number more people per square kilometer than here.

But it is comparable with Spain, which was also another "poor man of Europe" back in the 1980's.

Even though Spain has only a 30% more people per square kilometer than Ireland, now has a state of the art infrastructure with high speed rail and nearly all major cities linked by motorway.

I don't have figures to compare how much the EU has pumped into Ireland vs Spain since they joined the EU on a per capita basis, but I would imagine that it is relatively comparable also.

How can Spain therefore have left Ireland so far behind when both economies in the last 10 years have been fueled by comparable housing bubbles?

I will leave it up to other posters to forward their opinion as to why this is...

Sponge Bob · 14-10-2009 12:47pm

It is not comparable to Sweden and Finland where population density is lower than Ireland and where people living north of the Artic Circle can get decent broadband, proper TV and Mobile phone signals and good quality running water piped to their homes .

In Ireland we have no concept of Universality

Irish and Proud · 14-10-2009 1:19pm

ih8northsiders wrote: »

ireland is a sparsley populated island. it doesnt warrant an excellent connected transport system. it is a poor isolated country. this might be tough but its true. ok im belgian(parents are irish) and i see this with my own two eyes. you can't expect a transport system and stuff like we have in belgium which is a densley populated nation on a massive landmass connected to big cities, so i suggest you somehow raise population or stop compaining:)

OK, I'll have to be blunt here - I was on the motorways in Belguim in the mid 1990's and to say the least, they were a total disgrace!!! Many of the surfaces were in a shocking state. I was even on some of the ordinary roads, and some would rival the very worst of ours! Maybe things have improved since - well, they'd really want to have!!!

Now, I've just looked at Google maps and see that the French have started building a bypass West of Maubeuge (where I stayed in 1994), which is more than what has been done by Belguim in the area. The D649 East from Maubeuge was there in the 1990's as a dual-carriageway, which ended abruptly in Belguim - this is still the case. Are the roads around Merbes-de-Chateau still a network of potholes - through where one would have to go to get to Charleroi? Get up off your lazy backsides! How many motorways has your country actually done since the early 1990's - and how many are still in a deplorable state?

Ireland may over-spec many a new road, but engineers here are thinking of the future - we will probably cut back now in light of economic circumstances, but we still intend to get things done. Instead of putting us down, maybe you should complain about the lack of motivation in Belguim - look at France, Spain etc - look how they get things done - even the British are doing better than you!

Get a move on!!!

BTW, what's wrong with the Northside???

nordydan · 14-10-2009 2:30pm

Irish and Proud wrote: »

OK, I'll have to be blunt here - I was on the motorways in Belguim in the mid 1990's and to say the least, they were a total disgrace!!! Many of the surfaces were in a shocking state. I was even on some of the ordinary roads, and some would rival the very worst of ours! Maybe things have improved since - well, they'd really want to have!!!

Now, I've just looked at Google maps and see that the French have started building a bypass West of Maubeuge (where I stayed in 1994), which is more than what has been done by Belguim in the area. The D649 East from Maubeuge was there in the 1990's as a dual-carriageway, which ended abruptly in Belguim - this is still the case. Are the roads around Merbes-de-Chateau still a network of potholes - through where one would have to go to get to Charleroi? Get up off your lazy backsides! How many motorways has your country actually done since the early 1990's - and how many are still in a deplorable state?

Ireland may over-spec many a new road, but engineers here are thinking of the future - we will probably cut back now in light of economic circumstances, but we still intend to get things done. Instead of putting us down, maybe you should complain about the lack of motivation in Belguim - look at France, Spain etc - look how they get things done - even the British are doing better than you!

Get a move on!!!

BTW, what's wrong with the Northside???

Well said, I presume the poster is a Walloon and by northside he means Flanders...

mysterious · 14-10-2009 2:41pm

ih8northsiders wrote: »

ireland is a sparsley populated island. it doesnt warrant an excellent connected transport system. it is a poor isolated country. this might be tough but its true. ok im belgian(parents are irish) and i see this with my own two eyes. you can't expect a transport system and stuff like we have in belgium which is a densley populated nation on a massive landmass connected to big cities, so i suggest you somehow raise population or stop compaining:)

Our trains are sexy though!

Trains are so slow, never really hot with time and most trains are uncomfortable. it's humourous to know how much money we spend on this service, I mean there is no point in having time management we could just be late for appointments and just dream about our long waited arrival at destination. If I get too impaitent I will buy a 10 euro bun and eat it in the space of 3 hours so I don't get helplessy aggitated.. If I fall asleep the bouncy traintrack will nudge me awake again so I dont dream about getting home to soon. I'm so laughing right now, my legs are in pain ah ha ha ha ha!:rolleyes:

Our trains are the equivalent of steam trains of the 1800s.

I'm not complaining, just saying like. Our motorway system is good but badly planned. But that's saying to much.

Plowman · 14-10-2009 2:47pm

This post has been deleted.

mysterious · 14-10-2009 2:49pm

Our infrastructure is a joke.

We are behind on almost everything.

If you want to compare roads systems. At least compare countries like Portugal, Spain and Albania. There are many eastern European countries who are a lot poorer have way better infrastructure than we do.

These are facts.

ih8northsiders · 14-10-2009 4:08pm

but i get the impression some believe dublin should have transport system of berlin or something. you have good transport for a nation like the one you have

nordydan · 14-10-2009 4:12pm

ih8northsiders wrote: »

but i get the impression some believe dublin should have transport system of berlin or something. you have good transport for a nation like the one you have

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_urban_areas_of_the_European_Union#Urban_areas_over_750.2C000_inhabitants

No, something like Stuttgart or Lyon

Amtmann · 14-10-2009 4:16pm

ih8northsiders wrote: »

you have good transport for a nation like the one you have

After checking your previous post history I am going to ask you to explain what exactly you mean by the comment I have bolded. Tell me.

Tech3 · 14-10-2009 11:11pm

mysterious wrote: »

At least compare countries like Albania. There are many eastern European countries who are a lot poorer have way better infrastructure than we do.

These are facts.

Albania does not have good infrastructure in terms of road anyway.

There is a 2+2 section between Durres and Tirane. There is now a motorway under construction( their first one!) which will link the two cities to Kukes and future intended to link to the Kosovo border. The number is cars per household is lower however in Albania so it is hard to compare the quality of infrastructure.

I don't get why people are comparing Spains infrastructure to ours as well. Their economy is much bigger.

Hotblack Desiato · 15-10-2009 12:24am

Spain may have an overall population density comparable to ours, but they have large urban centres separated by reasonably large distances, which makes them good candidates for high speed rail. We have an island with two decent sized cities (only one of which is in this jurisdiction) and the rest are small-to-middling towns separated by not-very-big distances. Decent roads and express coach services will kill what's left of passenger rail, and freight is already dead.

BluntGuy · 15-10-2009 12:53am

ih8northsiders wrote: »

ireland is a sparsley populated island. it doesnt warrant an excellent connected transport system.

Of course it does.

Every town, village and city warrants an excellent transport system, appropiate to the needs of that settlement.

For a village, this may be something as simple as a cycle path, for a town, a simple one-way system and bus shelters, for a city, such as Dublin, an integrated bus and commuter rail network.

That currently does not exist. We have a messy, unfocussed system of buses, trams and commuter lines that don't integrate well at all. With appropiate investment such as the Interconnector project, Luas link-up and the recent Dublin bike scheme, this problem can be alleviated.

As for Ireland as a whole, to me an appropiately excellent transport system is the motorway network and clockface express coaches which integrate with local bus networks. With regard to rail, electrifying and straighten out the Cork-Dublin-Belfast route would be an appropiate investment.

There's nothing fancy in there, all we need is a nice, simple but working system.

Also, you might want to tone it down with the patronising. You're not the only one here who has lived, worked or travelled abroad. I don't think people appreciate being talked down to.

Face the facts

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