Limerick M7/N7 South Ring to get very latest I.T.S technology

darkman2 · 18-08-2009 10:02pm #1

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New traffic technology in Ireland

A new ring road in Limerick, Ireland, has been designed to solve mounting congestion problems. By using state-of-the-art intelligent traffic management solutions, traffic flow will be smoother and safety will be improved.
The city of Limerick in the west of Ireland has long been troubled by traffic jams in its narrow streets, not least because the city provides the main crossing points over the River Shannon for motorists travelling from Galway and Clare to Cork and Kerry.

To date, Limerick has three crossing points, but a fourth connection will help divert the mounting traffic, which grew 140 percent from 1976 to 2000.
The proposed traffic solution will inform drivers of accidents ahead allowing them to take an alternative route.

Fourth connection

The fourth connection will be a ring road, and will include an immersed tunnel under the river. To enhance safety in the tunnel and get traffic flowing more freely, an Intelligent Transport System (ITS) will be used to manage and monitor the traffic over a ten kilometre stretch using the latest technology.

"We have chosen state-of-the-art solutions to ensure a modern and resilient in-tunnel ITS system. Above all, it will be used to provide approaching motorists with information about whether the tunnel is open, shut altogether or one lane only has been closed off. In addition, the new ring road will help direct the traffic away from the narrow streets of Limerick," says Ms Angela Grady, Commission Manager of RPS COWI Joint Venture.

Queue up ahead!

COWI is providing consultancy services to the Irish National Road Authority on ITS solutions in Limerick and is, together with RPS, reviewing the design and monitoring the construction works on the ring-road connection.

Once the project is completed in 2010, cameras spaced 200 metres apart will gather precise data on the number of motorists driving through the tunnel.

Data from the system will be used to inform other road users via roadside indicators about traffic conditions, weather conditions, and road works, allowing them to take a different route.

Focus on ITS

"Congestion is getting heavier and heavier, and ITS can make a useful contribution to traffic control. The use of ITS is currently growing fast. The trend is for a greater degree of monitoring and information to road users with an eye to making traffic flow and increasing safety," explains Jørgen Birk, project manager at COWI.

http://www.cowi.com/menu/news/specialfeaturesarchive/megatrendtransport/newtraffictechnologyinireland/Pages/newtraffictechnologyinireland.aspx

pajoguy · 18-08-2009 10:06pm

Any idea of the projected cost of the toll? I have heard €5 for a car which sounds very steep.

ironclaw · 18-08-2009 10:06pm

It will never work, it won't be the best system availible, it will become a toll road, and the Gardai will use it as a revenue spin by putting speed cameras on it. Like Portugal, your tagged between gates (by the cameras "helping" road traffic) and if your speeding your automaticallt given a fine. I'm surprised the M50 isn't doing it yet. I amn't holding my breath :rolleyes:

Dai John · 18-08-2009 11:18pm

darkman2 wrote: »

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http://www.cowi.com/menu/news/specialfeaturesarchive/megatrendtransport/newtraffictechnologyinireland/Pages/newtraffictechnologyinireland.aspx

Do not have much confidence in our planners, just good at hype. The Tipperary turnoff is a disaster. It should have been like the German motorways, motorway traffic should have gone under the bridge then turned left, not try to work out which traffic lights to focus on. There should be no tunnel toll, look at the M.50, a poxy little crossing like that and look at the problems it caused.Dublin Port Tunnel is another example, just how do these projects take so long and cost so much. Before you try to give any long winded explanations to confuse us, I worked in coal mines where tunnels were driven for miles through rock (they were called horizon roads ) in those days you drilled, blasted and cleared without the fancy machines of today.

Tech3 · 18-08-2009 11:21pm

pajoguy wrote: »

Any idea of the projected cost of the toll? I have heard €5 for a car which sounds very steep.

What? AFAIK it's €1.90.

Tech3 · 18-08-2009 11:26pm

ironclaw wrote: »

it will become a toll road

It going to open as a toll road from day 1

Tech3 · 18-08-2009 11:32pm

Dai John wrote: »

Do not have much confidence in our planners, just good at hype. The Tipperary turnoff is a disaster. It should have been like the German motorways, motorway traffic should have gone under the bridge then turned left, not try to work out which traffic lights to focus on. There should be no tunnel toll, look at the M.50, a poxy little crossing like that and look at the problems it caused.Dublin Port

What a load of rubbish. The reason there is going to be a toll is because the government didnt have enough cash in their kitty to fund it. It's being constructed by Public Private Partnership(PPP). Do you expect them to built it and maintain it to 30 years for free?

Tunnel is another example, just how do these projects take so long and cost so much. Before you try to give any long winded explanations to confuse us, I worked in coal mines where tunnels were driven for miles through rock (they were called horizon roads ) in those days you drilled, blasted and cleared without the fancy machines of today.

There is a massive difference providing a tunnel for mine digging and a tunnel for motorway traffic. That post doesn't make sense.

Dai John · 19-08-2009 9:13am

tech2 wrote: »

What a load of rubbish. The reason there is going to be a toll is because the government didnt have enough cash in their kitty to fund it. It's being constructed by Public Private Partnership(PPP). Do you expect them to built it and maintain it to 30 years for free?

There is a massive difference providing a tunnel for mine digging and a tunnel for motorway traffic. That post doesn't make sense.

I travelled a lot of tunnels truck driving all over europe and coal mine tunnels, where horizon roads were straight and 20 foot high or more. Ventilation was one of the biggest problems more so in a coal mine than a short tunnel due to methane and carbon dioxide. Too many people like to make jobs look so hard to justify themselves. The tunnels cost too much ,take too long to build here and what do we pay so much road tax and fuel excise for ? Limerick by passes should have been built 30 years ago. Tipperary must be the worse bottleneck in the country , what are the planners doing? Perhaps they were praying for a rescession hoping the traffic would thin out. Think I have seen enough to have a valid opinion.How did Brunel achieve so much with so little ?

Tech3 · 19-08-2009 11:25am

Dai John wrote: »

The tunnels cost too much ,take too long to build here and what do we pay so much road tax and fuel excise for ?

A bridge would have been a more expensive option. It is going to be expensive as its a dual carriageway road in which has strict safety guidelines for the tunnel and it is immersed under a river. Road tax goes to the local authorities for local road maintenance and fuel excise is a tax income for the state probably not used on roads.

Limerick by passes should have been built 30 years ago. Tipperary must be the worse bottleneck in the country , what are the planners doing? Perhaps they were praying for a rescession hoping the traffic would thin out. Think I have seen enough to have a valid opinion.How did Brunel achieve so much with so little ?

Limerick was bypassed half arsed before with S2 and roundabouts before. Now we will have a proper dual carriageway motorway link around the southern side of the city connecting all National primary and secondary routes into the city.
The N24 has been put on the back burner meaning Tipperary wont be bypassed for another 10-20 years at the very least.

childoforpheus · 19-08-2009 2:59pm

pajoguy wrote: »

Any idea of the projected cost of the toll? I have heard €5 for a car which sounds very steep.

It would be €1.296 in August 2003 prices according to the draft toll scheme, which is about €1.90 in todays figures as Tech2 said.
Link: http://www.nra.ie/PublicPrivatePartnership/TollingDocumentation/file,2819,en.PDF (size: 670kb)

Chris_533976 · 19-08-2009 6:57pm

This will probably be as unreliable as the one in the Lee Tunnel which is controlled by the Tunnel Management building next to the north portal.

Despite the fact that there is a camera looking directly at the portal, traffic chaos was being caused a while back by one lane being closed; the signs saying the left lane was closed inside the tunnel. Of course everyone got inside the tunnel only to find that the right lane was actually losed.

Ridiculous.

Carawaystick · 19-08-2009 10:05pm

Or on the Northern approach to the dublin port tunnel, signs saying traffic stopped ahead when there isn't; Lane closed ahead, when there isn't or no advance notice of a speed reduction until you've entered and have to pay through the nose to travel at a lower speed than the N1 route.

All the tunnels in Spain and France on Motorways have this kind of system, I thing the EU rules were beefed up after the Mont Blanc Tunnel fire. Even ones that are only 120m long and you can clearly see through them.

Dai John · 20-08-2009 2:33pm

tech2 wrote: »

A bridge would have been a more expensive option. It is going to be expensive as its a dual carriageway road in which has strict safety guidelines for the tunnel and it is immersed under a river. Road tax goes to the local authorities for local road maintenance and fuel excise is a tax income for the state probably not used on roads.

Limerick was bypassed half arsed before with S2 and roundabouts before. Now we will have a proper dual carriageway motorway link around the southern side of the city connecting all National primary and secondary routes into the city.
The N24 has been put on the back burner meaning Tipperary wont be bypassed for another 10-20 years at the very least.

The tunnel is the correct option, if you visited the quarry at the cement factory you would see why. The quarry was low enough to give a headstart to the project. As for a prior comment about Limerick Docks and a bridge you could never get them to agree to anything just look at their history in labour relations. With regard to the Mount Blanc tunnel, I travelled it many times by truck and hated it, one reason was the cost and the other was it was a single tunnel carrying two way traffic, result was a build up of exhaust gases due to bad ventilation. It is over 10 kms long ,that fire was an accident waiting to happen.

Wild Bill · 21-08-2009 8:36am

Carawaystick wrote: »

Or on the Northern approach to the dublin port tunnel, signs saying traffic stopped ahead when there isn't; Lane closed ahead, when there isn't or no advance notice of a speed reduction until you've entered and have to pay through the nose to travel at a lower speed than the N1 route.

It is even worse than that. During the Summer, twice, late at night returning from the airport I decided to go via the tunnel rather than 25 miles around the M50. On both occasions (several weeks apart) the tunnel was closed. But the VMS signs said nothing - until it was too late to turn back - and I ended up in Whitehall.

Needless to say I won't be availing of the "cheap" rates available at night ever again.

And what is it with the NRA and VMS signs; they have never got their act together on the M50; the "permanent" ones (installed 10 years ago) were hardly used except to flash inane messages like "speed kills" at the stationary gridlock. They had a trial (it was on the NRA website) telling the time from the Naas Road to the Red Cow; abandoned after a short while - leaving more never used permanent message boards dead on the side of the road.

And in Wexford last year, on the N11, there was the "launch" of a wonderful, EU funded, pair of signs telling you the time of the next Rosslare Ferry and the time it will take you to get to Rosslare, situated on the southbound side. There was a photo in the local papers (and NRA website) of various officials and Wexford councillors and EU civil servants at the "opening". Today, the pair of signs (cost €112,000; not including cost of all the dignitaries and hype) are standing in blank testimony to the monumental incompetence of....someone.

Dai John · 21-08-2009 9:55am

Wild Bill wrote: »

It is even worse than that. During the Summer, twice, late at night returning from the airport I decided to go via the tunnel rather than 25 miles around the M50. On both occasions (several weeks apart) the tunnel was closed. But the VMS signs said nothing - until it was too late to turn back - and I ended up in Whitehall.

Needless to say I won't be availing of the "cheap" rates available at night ever again.

And what is it with the NRA and VMS signs; they have never got their act together on the M50; the "permanent" ones (installed 10 years ago) were hardly used except to flash inane messages like "speed kills" at the stationary gridlock. They had a trial (it was on the NRA website) telling the time from the Naas Road to the Red Cow; abandoned after a short while - leaving more never used permanent message boards dead on the side of the road.

And in Wexford last year, on the N11, there was the "launch" of a wonderful, EU funded, pair of signs telling you the time of the next Rosslare Ferry and the time it will take you to get to Rosslare, situated on the southbound side. There was a photo in the local papers (and NRA website) of various officials and Wexford councillors and EU civil servants at the "opening". Today, the pair of signs (cost €112,000; not including cost of all the dignitaries and hype) are standing in blank testimony to the monumental incompetence of....someone.

I think we can go on forever about the incompetence of our planners. Back in the 80's when work was scarce and people on the dole wholesale it was said we should have improved our infrastructure then. It could have been done cheaply, prevented emigration and roads been in place for the upturn. It would have meant borrowing but we would have been better off than now.The roads were so bad, the Germans used to laugh about delivery times. They averaged times at 80 kms.an hour for journey times and refused to believe how long it would take say from Galway to Clifden.

Wild Bill · 21-08-2009 10:48pm

Dai John wrote: »

I think we can go on forever about the incompetence of our planners. Back in the 80's when work was scarce and people on the dole wholesale it was said we should have improved our infrastructure then. It could have been done cheaply, prevented emigration and roads been in place for the upturn. It would have meant borrowing but we would have been better off than now.The roads were so bad, the Germans used to laugh about delivery times. They averaged times at 80 kms.an hour for journey times and refused to believe how long it would take say from Galway to Clifden.

Yep. As recently as the mid-1990s had to hire a very specialized self-drive crane from Scotland to load a boat in Kinsale, a very restricted quayside. The driver landed in Larne and based on his experience of British roads calculated a six-hour trip. Took him 14 hours, missed a couple of tides and cost a fortune. Which had to be passed on to the crane company. Who never came back! And we never got a repeat order. :mad:

Carawaystick · 21-08-2009 11:46pm

Wild Bill wrote: »

Yep. As recently as the mid-1990s had to hire a very specialized self-drive crane from Scotland to load a boat in Kinsale, a very restricted quayside. The driver landed in Larne and based on his experience of British roads calculated a six-hour trip. Took him 14 hours, missed a couple of tides and cost a fortune. Which had to be passed on to the crane company. Who never came back! And we never got a repeat order. :mad:

Even if it was Motorway the whole way from Larne to Kinsale there's no way a truck'd do it in 6 hours. It's 260km from Cork to Dublin. 166 from Dublin to Belfast. That's over 5 hours at 80 km/h
another 36km from Larne to Belfast, and another 30km from Cork to Kinsale. Allowing for mandatory rest times, this would not be possible in 6 hours. So the driver was way off in his planning.

Wild Bill · 22-08-2009 1:44am

Carawaystick wrote: »

Even if it was Motorway the whole way from Larne to Kinsale there's no way a truck'd do it in 6 hours. It's 260km from Cork to Dublin. 166 from Dublin to Belfast. That's over 5 hours at 80 km/h
another 36km from Larne to Belfast, and another 30km from Cork to Kinsale. Allowing for mandatory rest times, this would not be possible in 6 hours. So the driver was way off in his planning.

I'm not sure the rest hours were a huge issue back then! (If I recall correctly there was a single driver/operator).

Maybe it was 8 hours...can't recall the exact details tbh, but he underestimated the time by a factor of two and lost two tides.

Chris_533976 · 22-08-2009 9:55am

Could he not have landed at Ringaskiddy instead of all the way up in Larne?

Carawaystick · 22-08-2009 8:06pm

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Could he not have landed at Ringaskiddy instead of all the way up in Larne?

probably not unless it was coming from Normandy or Brittany in France...

Wild Bill · 22-08-2009 10:07pm

lol! The guy was coming from Glasgow - I guess Larne looked far the most obvious route on the map!

L1011 · 22-08-2009 11:34pm

Back then you could have come in to Ringaskiddy (or probably Tivoli still) via Swansea but if you were in Scotland you'd not even think of that - it wouldn't have seemed a logical option!

Limerick M7/N7 South Ring to get very latest I.T.S technology

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