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AIL players who should move province?

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Comments

  • #32
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    GymJim wrote: »
    Have a look at the above and tell me Munster really have nothing coming through. All these players are actually nearer ML teams than most of Leinster's younger players. In fact, all besides Nagle, Grace and O'Mahony have played some ML gametime...and these are probably 3 best prospects.

    Whatever about O'Mahony, who's still a bit too young, how is Nagle expected to get ahead of O'Connell, O'Callaghan, O'Driscoll, Ryan and Foley? Surely it makes more sense to move? Same applies to Grace, behind Wallace, Ronan and O'Donnell. Or look at Ger Slattery with Young Munster, great hooker, but behind Flannery, Fogarty, Essex (is he gone?) and Varley (back from Wasps), might also be behind Sherry. We have crazy strength in depth in some positions.

    You didn't mention Diarmuid McCarthy btw, possibly the best young talent in Munster, though he may not even want to join the Academy.


  • #33
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    Good list, most of those guys will finish next year still playing AIL, infact, a worrying amount will be playing in Division two of the AIL. Hence, imo, a good number of them will have to leave. Wtf is Tonnetti for example, going to learn playing AIL Division two with UCD. David Kearney is another good example, how is he going to get his game at fullback for Leinster? Or Madigan etc.

    Leinster are very sorry for having a good set of first choice backs, meaning we can't bring through 5 or 6 academy players at a time.


  • #34
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    danthefan wrote: »
    Leinster are very sorry for having a good set of first choice backs, meaning we can't bring through 5 or 6 academy players at a time.

    Don't be sorry, I'm just pointing out it's great for Leinster to have them, it's not great for Irish rugby to have them playing AIL Div 2. I'm saying the same thing about the overabundance of forwards in Munster.

    They should move province, imo. Ulster are in bad need of decent halfbacks, for example, and Jesus, have you seen who Ulster play at fullback?


  • #35
    chupacabra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,433 ✭✭✭chupacabra


    This new competition for the A sides will go a long way to developing young players.


  • #36
    anonymous_joe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    Good list, most of those guys will finish next year still playing AIL, infact, a worrying amount will be playing in Division two of the AIL. Hence, imo, a good number of them will have to leave. Wtf is Tonnetti for example, going to learn playing AIL Division two with UCD. David Kearney is another good example, how is he going to get his game at fullback for Leinster? Or Madigan etc.
    What do you expect though?

    Take Leinster next season -

    14. Shane Horgan/Isa Nacewa - 15. Rob Kearney/Dempsey/Fitzgerald/Nacewa - 11. Luke Fitzgerald/Rob Kearney

    That's not factoring in a single one of the young lads - how's anyone going to get in there?

    Munster have Warwick, Howlett and Dowling, and of those, Dowling could easily lose his place to a newcomer, (maybe Jones) while I can see Warwick playing more and more at out-half as ROG ages, meaning there's a hole for a full back. That's just the way it goes.
    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    Whatever about O'Mahony, who's still a bit too young, how is Nagle expected to get ahead of O'Connell, O'Callaghan, O'Driscoll, Ryan and Foley? Surely it makes more sense to move? Same applies to Grace, behind Wallace, Ronan and O'Donnell. Or look at Ger Slattery with Young Munster, great hooker, but behind Flannery, Fogarty, Essex (is he gone?) and Varley (back from Wasps), might also be behind Sherry. We have crazy strength in depth in some positions.

    You didn't mention Diarmuid McCarthy btw, possibly the best young talent in Munster, though he may not even want to join the Academy.

    Whose McCarthy?

    Anyway, the problem with all of this is that there are a lot of youngsters, and very few places for 'em to go.


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  • #37
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    anonymous_joe wrote: »
    What do you expect though?

    Take Leinster next season -

    14. Shane Horgan/Isa Nacewa - 15. Rob Kearney/Dempsey/Fitzgerald/Nacewa - 11. Luke Fitzgerald/Rob Kearney

    That's not factoring in a single one of the young lads - how's anyone going to get in there?

    Munster have Warwick, Howlett and Dowling, and of those, Dowling could easily lose his place to a newcomer, (maybe Jones) while I can see Warwick playing more and more at out-half as ROG ages, meaning there's a hole for a full back. That's just the way it goes.


    Whose McCarthy?

    Anyway, the problem with all of this is that there are a lot of youngsters, and very few places for 'em to go.

    What do I expect? I thought it was clear, I expect them to move provinces. As a general rule, a player who's hitting his mid twenties and over playing in Division Two of the AIL is accepting he's not going to make it as a top level pro. If that's what he wants, then that's cool and fair play to him, but if he wants to play for Ireland, he should move.

    I realise not every underage player is going to make it, but guys like J. Murphy and Dowling who had the confidence to move to different clubs to try their luck are being a lot more pro-active than guys who hang around hoping for a lucky break.

    McCarthy is the centre/winger from last years Castletroy team. Went straight into the senior Garryowen team.


  • #38
    bamboozle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,699 ✭✭✭bamboozle


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    Good list, most of those guys will finish next year still playing AIL, infact, a worrying amount will be playing in Division two of the AIL. Hence, imo, a good number of them will have to leave. Wtf is Tonnetti for example, going to learn playing AIL Division two with UCD. David Kearney is another good example, how is he going to get his game at fullback for Leinster? Or Madigan etc.

    if the AIL is to take off next season in its new format, we need to see these promising players playing with the top 8 teams.


  • #39
    RuggieBear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,958 ✭✭✭✭RuggieBear


    lads let's keep it civil and away from petty provincial point(lessness) scoring. there are a lot of good points being made here and i for one really like to hear about the potential coming thru...or not as the case may be.

    I was impressed by McCarthy when i saw the munster SCT final. He was clearly head and shoulders above the rest on the field but very hard to gauge the standard of play in general tbh.


  • #40
    Size=everything
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭Size=everything


    RuggieBear wrote: »
    lads let's keep it civil and away from petty provincial point(lessness) scoring. there are a lot of good points being made here and i for one really like to hear about the potential coming thru...or not as the case may be.

    I was impressed by McCarthy when i saw the munster SCT final. He was clearly head and shoulders above the rest on the field but very hard to gauge the standard of play in general tbh.


    He was nowhere near the Ireland Under 20s Squad and from what I heard he hasn't been playing anywhere near the same standard.


  • #41
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    Size=everything wrote: »
    He was nowhere near the Ireland Under 20s Squad and from what I heard he hasn't been playing anywhere near the same standard.

    He's been scoring tries for Garryowen's senior team, pretty high standard imo. The fact that he was omitted from the Irish u-20's is more to do with him not sure if he wants to go pro or not than his current rugby form, imo.


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  • #42
    Size=everything
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭Size=everything


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    He's been scoring tries for Garryowen's senior team, pretty high standard imo. The fact that he was omitted from the Irish u-20's is more to do with him not sure if he wants to go pro or not than his current rugby form, imo.

    Thats funny because he went to all the Ireland under 20s trial games and training sessions. He just didnt get picked simple as.


  • #43
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    Size=everything wrote: »
    Thats funny because he went to all the Ireland under 20s trial games and training sessions. He just didnt get picked simple as.

    He was also in the Irish development squad, but I'm sure we all know there's no such thing as politics in Irish rugby. Even the wingers and centres they picked from Munster aren't as good as him, imo.


  • #44
    Size=everything
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭Size=everything


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    He was also in the Irish development squad, but I'm sure we all know there's no such thing as politics in Irish rugby. Even the wingers and centres they picked from Munster aren't as good as him, imo.

    He wasn't picked because Kearney, Spence, Keating, Madigan, and Sheridan are far superior than him. Nothing to do with politics.


  • #45
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    Size=everything wrote: »
    He wasn't picked because Kearney, Spence, Keating, Madigan, and Sheridan are far superior than him. Nothing to do with politics.

    Yeah, O'Mahony and Barnes are better than him too....


  • #46
    Size=everything
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭Size=everything


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    Yeah, O'Mahony and Barnes are better than him too....

    Well they did make the Munster U20s squad ahead of him. If I recall correctly McCarthy didnt even make the 22.

    Besides Barnes was only called up because of an injury to Spence.

    Out of interest do you have a vested interest in the player because he simply is not the amazing player you make him out to be, he had a great final in the schools cup and other than that hes been very ordinary.


  • #47
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    Size=everything wrote: »
    Well they did make the Munster U20s squad ahead of him. If I recall correctly McCarthy didnt even make the 22.

    Besides Barnes was only called up because of an injury to Spence.

    Out of interest do you have a vested interest in the player because he simply is not the amazing player you make him out to be, he had a great final in the schools cup and other than that hes been very ordinary.

    Not at all, I don't know the guy from Adam. I was chatting to a senior member of the Garryowen team and he reckoned McCarthy was the best young player he'd ever seen in the club. Tony Ward reckons he is the third best young player in Ireland after Earls and Fitz, he's been scoring freely for Garryowen in his first season out of school. That isn't ordinary.


  • #48
    anonymous_joe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    Good post.
    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    What do I expect? I thought it was clear, I expect them to move provinces. As a general rule, a player who's hitting his mid twenties and over playing in Division Two of the AIL is accepting he's not going to make it as a top level pro. If that's what he wants, then that's cool and fair play to him, but if he wants to play for Ireland, he should move.
    The one problem I have with moving provinces is that it will eventually lead to the same problem. If you look at all the Leinster players people want to see at Connacht, Munster, etc, the problem is, there's still plenty more coming through.

    Let's look at full back as one position - Fionn Carr, Rob Kearney, Luke Fitzgerald, Felix Jones - all of whom are a similar age and full backs. And from one province.

    That's ignoring hte likes of Dave Kearney and (is it McKinley or Madigan whose the under-20s full back.). There's just too many of them to make it at full back for an Irish team. Obviously some'll go to the wings, etc, but the fact is, what we need more than anything for the AIL to offer a more competitive environment, rather than for the lads to move to other provinces. At least I reckon so.
    I realise not every underage player is going to make it, but guys like J. Murphy and Dowling who had the confidence to move to different clubs to try their luck are being a lot more pro-active than guys who hang around hoping for a lucky break.
    And fair fúcks to them for moving, it can be difficult to make it at a province.
    McCarthy is the centre/winger from last years Castletroy team. Went straight into the senior Garryowen team.

    Ah cool. Don't follow the Leinster SC much at this stage, let alone the Munster one. ^^


  • #49
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    Considering Terenure, UCD, Lansdowne, and Trinity are playing in Div Two (effectively Div Three now), there's a lot of players who are going to playing at a lower level than they should be.


  • #50
    anonymous_joe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    Considering Terenure, UCD, Lansdowne, and Trinity are playing in Div Two (effectively Div Three now), there's a lot of players who are going to playing at a lower level than they should be.

    Definitely. It's a problem.


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