Gun identity??

elius · 04-06-2009 10:30pm #1

Hi folks this is a 4/10 that was left to me a good few years ago its a s/s but its of unknown make.. Can anyone help identify it for me...The pics aren't great.. Here goes...

J. Ramone · 05-06-2009 11:38am

Possibly a Webley & Scott or another English make built on a Webley action.

Grizzly 45 · 05-06-2009 3:39pm

Or a Belgian copy of the above?Nice little piece all the same.:)

Sparks · 05-06-2009 3:42pm

Is the outside of the barrel not a bit... rusty?

Rosahane · 05-06-2009 3:57pm

If you look at the flats under the chambers of the barrels you can determine from the proof marks if it's an english or continental gun. You might also be able to determine the approx year of manafucture from the stamps.

That said, it looks like a relatively good quality piece - probably pre war Birimingham.

Google "British gun proof marks"
or look at this https://store.bluebookinc.com/Info/PDF/Firearm/Proofmarks.pdf

foxshooter243 · 05-06-2009 4:48pm

Sparks wrote: »

Is the outside of the barrel not a bit... rusty?

as well as blueing and blacking there is also browning, it may be that these barrels were browned to begin with-just a guess on my part though:)

elius · 05-06-2009 6:35pm

Sparks wrote: »

Is the outside of the barrel not a bit... rusty?

Its just a little service rust... Ive drop it in for a full service and clean. So she will be fit for storage..As it doesnt really get shot that much....

Rosahane.. Now that you said it my grandad hailed drom kidderminster which isnt a million miles away from birmingham.......

meathstevie · 05-06-2009 10:00pm

If I were you I'd look after it. It looks like a well made little gun that could be worth a few bob if it's English or Belgian.
If it's Belgian you should find an oval proof mark on it with a crown on top and the letters ELG in it, the letters laid out in a triangular fashion. If you find those start looking for a manufacturers name. If it by chance says Lebeau-Coralie or Saive or the likes get it valued.

daveob007 · 10-06-2009 2:28pm

see if you can find the cert from the person who left it to you,the make should be on that.
if you got it from the uk then the police will have records,just quote the serial no.
if none of these work then try christies auctioneers or another who deal in old guns.
try and google some of these auction sites also.
nice gun might be worth money

J. Ramone · 10-06-2009 6:07pm

Had a second look. It's hard to see from the pics but looks like damascus barrels which you can tell from the swirling pattern of lighter and darker steel from the forged twisted wires. These were usually given a brown rather than 'blue' finish. If thats the case the gun probably dates from the early 20th centuary. The make would then more likely be W & C Scott (not sure when they merged with Webley, the service revolver makers). I think Belgian imports were scarce in the days of Damascus barrells.

Small guage English guns are in demand. A beauty in that condition may be worth getting valued. If the barrels are not pitted it could be worth a couple of K.

Holland & Holland in London hold the records for Webley & Scott and W & C Scott vintage guns. If you give them the serial number, they might help you out. May you pass it on to your grandchildren.

Cass · 10-06-2009 9:39pm

Hey lads this could be it;

135. Manton & Co. London SxS Shotgun with Boxlocks
Serial# 92503, 12 gauge (2 1/2" chambers). 30" barrels, excellent bores choked Improved Cylinder in both tubes. This SXS retains approximately 99% of a restoration quality blue on the barrels and has a single bead sight. The receiver is gray with some very light pitting and is nicely engraved with a scroll pattern. The triggerguard and floorplate are reblued and scroll engraved as well. The straight gripped stock has been recheckered but still grades about fine with some marks from field use. The forend has been recheckered and grades about fine as well. The barrels are Nitro proofed to 3 tons, "(crown) NP", "(crown) BP", "(crown) BV" + "(crown) BNP". This has double triggers, extractors and a length of pull measuring 14 1/8" over period red rubber buttpad.

Mellor · 11-06-2009 2:22am

It's a good match, i'd be surprized if it wasn't it (or at least a european clone)

Rovi · 11-06-2009 10:08am

I'd also suggest going easy on the servicing and cleaning-up, and certainly don't do any 'restoration', until the gun has been positively identified and valued.
Many's the valuable antique that has been significantly devalued by uninformed but enthusiastic restoration.

J. Ramone · 11-06-2009 10:18am

Almost identical too. Here's what I was thinking of;
http://www.gunsinternational.com/WCSCOTT-SXS-12-GAUGE.cfm?gun_id=100061171

Grizzly 45 · 11-06-2009 11:03am

Only trouble is most of them are 12GA.But myself I would tip on a Webly& Scott and a bit older than early last century,as Damascus barrels were starting then to become a thing of the past.Check around for proof marks again.It might have been reproved from black powder to nitro with damascus barrels,if there is anything that has been "crossed out" so to speak of the proof marks.It will show the gun was nitro proved and you can date it abit more easily.

Cass · 11-06-2009 8:34pm

I'd swear this is the same shotgun. http://www.heritageguns.co.uk/Higham%20BLE/Higham%20BLE%20Details.htm .Its the same as the one i posted about the other day. Found the exact same shotgun today in Stakelums in Thurles. "E&G Higham" is engraved on the side. There were three shotguns of similar shape and design but only the one in the link above and in Stakelums had the same detail on the breach as the one in the pictures posted by elius.

The one in the link is from the late 1880's but the one in stakelums is not so old.

BornToKill · 11-06-2009 10:19pm

These proof marks may help you to verify the origins if you can find proof marks on the shotgun.

elius · 03-11-2009 8:06pm

Hi lads thanks for all the info you guys have shown.. I got it back form a service the other day and its a grand job, The barrels where re blued and a good oiling. Although there was a small piting on the barrel its perfectly safe to use...

With regards to make.
On the underside of the barrel.

It has written,

400, bv, np, bp, nitro proof, 410LC, choke, 7/16

So im taking its since 1904. Judging buy the Proof markings.
As for make make although those guns posted are similar mine has very little in the way of ingraving. Must have been a budget one:D

Can anyone reccomend an irish antique's gun dealer is there even one.

Thanks again lads

Kimber · 03-11-2009 8:22pm

elius wrote: »

Hi lads thanks for all the info you guys have shown.. I got it back form a service the other day and its a grand job, The barrels where re blued and a good oiling. Although there was a small piting on the barrel its perfectly safe to use...

With regards to make.
On the underside of the barrel.

It has written,

400, bv, np, bp, nitro proof, 410LC, choke, 7/16

So im taking its since 1904. Judging buy the Proof markings.
As for make make although those guns posted are similar mine has very little in the way of ingraving. Must have been a budget one:D

Can anyone reccomend an irish antique's gun dealer is there even one.

Thanks again lads

Just a thought. Try contacting Fultons Gunsmiths on the Bisley Range UK. These guys have been around a long time and may be able to help you. Just a friendly thought.

kowloon · 04-11-2009 12:39am

Grind up a bit of chalk and dust it along any proof marks or stampings you can find, this should show them up nicely for a photo.
There could be more than you can make out on there.

rowa · 04-11-2009 3:52am

could it be a bsa ? looks like one i used to have .

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Gun identity??

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