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Johnny Sexton

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  • #182
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,079 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    danthefan wrote: »
    ROG might start but there'd be plenty of debate around it imo.


    Don't be getting ahead of yourself. In the 6N that was on only a few months ago, where was Sexton in the pecking order for no 10 for Ireland?


  • #183
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,096 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    where was Sexton in the pecking order for no 10 for Ireland?

    Injured I believe.


  • #184
    anonymous_joe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    Don't be getting ahead of yourself. In the 6N that was on only a few months ago, where was Sexton in the pecking order for no 10 for Ireland?

    ROG verus France was unreal.

    Against England however, I'd rather have had Jack Kyle at out-half than O'Gara. And that's hardly his fault, we all have bad days, the coach just didn't pick anyone who could have been brought on.

    I remember the 08 6 Nations Danny Cipriani had an awful game against Wales and then tore Ireland apart. Form is after all temporary.

    I can't see it being bad for O'Gara if Sexton takes his place if he puts in a bad game, it might help refocus him, and help him and us for that reason.


  • #185
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,079 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Injured I believe.

    He wasn't/still isn't even first choice for his province.
    anonymous_joe wrote: »
    ROG verus France was unreal.

    Against England however, I'd rather have had Jack Kyle at out-half than O'Gara. And that's hardly his fault, we all have bad days, the coach just didn't pick anyone who could have been brought on.

    I remember the 08 6 Nations Danny Cipriani had an awful game against Wales and then tore Ireland apart. Form is after all temporary.

    I can't see it being bad for O'Gara if Sexton takes his place if he puts in a bad game, it might help refocus him, and help him and us for that reason.


    Don't get me wrong, we desperately need a couple of decent 10s. Sexton has the making of a fine replacement hopefully. But to say that he is anywhere near O Gara now is wrong. He would be cover with no debate.

    If he has a good game Saturday it could really set him up. I hope that happens.


  • #186
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    If you look at ROG v Italy and England particularly, Scotland to a lesser extent, Sexton could not possibly do worse than that. He just couldn't. ROG went from the France game all the way until Bowe's try against Wales without creating/having a hand in creating/having anything whatsoever to do with a try. 3 and a half games without creating anything! Sexton should start a game in the Autumn. If that goes well he should start the next game, etc.


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  • #187
    anonymous_joe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »

    Don't get me wrong, we desperately need a couple of decent 10s. Sexton has the making of a fine replacement hopefully. But to say that he is anywhere near O Gara now is wrong. He would be cover with no debate.

    If he has a good game Saturday it could really set him up. I hope that happens.

    Thing is, and I know you're a Munster fan, we tend to overestimate our own players a bit. I'd tell you that O'Driscoll's the best player in Ireland, without a shadow of doubt, and end up slightly overstating his value.

    Looking at O'Gara and Sexton, they've both got a very similar style, though I think O'Gara's pass isn't as good as Sexton's, but that his place kicking's stronger and so's his tactical kicking in the game, but not by a massive distance.

    Moreover, in his last few games with Munster, I think Sexton's been the better player more times than O'Gara. Thinking of last season's games and the semi. Sexton also outshone Stephen Jones recently (in an abject Scarlets team, who gave mediocrity a bad name).

    O'Gara's personal 'myth' is based on years of solid performances, Sexton doesn't have that because he's younger, but right now in the here and now, O'Gara's clearly the better player, but not by a clear distance. I think if Sexton's kicking improves in the next year or two, he would in fact be the better of the two, because he's already stronger defensively and in terms of running with the ball and passing I don't think either particularly outshines the other.


  • #188
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,079 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    anonymous_joe wrote: »
    I'd tell you that O'Driscoll's the best player in Ireland, without a shadow of doubt

    And I'd agree.
    I think if Sexton's kicking improves in the next year or two, he would in fact be the better of the two, because he's already stronger defensively and in terms of running with the ball and passing I don't think either particularly outshines the other.

    Do you mean career wise or that in a few years we will be better than an aged O Gara? Which hopefully will be the case.


  • #189
    anonymous_joe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    And I'd agree.



    Do you mean career wise or that in a few years we will be better than an aged O Gara? Which hopefully will be the case.

    I mean that if Sexton's kicking was a bit better, and not even a huge amount better, then yes, I think he would be a better player than O'Gara is right now.


  • #190
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    anonymous_joe wrote: »
    I mean that if Sexton's kicking was a bit better, and not even a huge amount better, then yes, I think he would be a better player than O'Gara is right now.

    Sexton can be better than ROG ever was imo. He has more elements to his game.


  • #191
    Oaklyn Bald Thinker
    Posts: 4,333 ✭✭✭ Oaklyn Bald Thinker


    danthefan wrote: »
    Sexton can be better than ROG ever was imo. He has more elements to his game.

    I agree.

    His passing and running is already better than Rog ever was.
    His goal kicking may never be but Rog is an exceptional goal kicker.

    His kicking from hand could be as good but Rog specialised in this because of his dominant lineout.
    When poc and doc leave we probably wont have as good 2nd rows for a long time,so it be be used less anyway.


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  • #192
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,096 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    He wasn't/still isn't even first choice for his province.

    He is now.


  • #193
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    He is now.




    I wouldnt bet against Cheika going for an OH in the summer, especially if leinster dont win the HEC.


  • #194
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,096 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    He will go for an outhalf this summer, I'm 100% sure of that. Sexton and Nacewa as the the only two out-halves in the squad would be unwise. Its a question of whether an outhalf is brought in to take over from Sexton or as back-up to Sexton. I expect the latter.


  • #195
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,079 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    He is now.


    1st choice Leinster OH is injured. If he were fit, he be playing.

    Lets not split hairs though, It's Johnny's time to shine in the sun, lets hope he doesn't burn.


  • #196
    curts82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 82 ✭✭curts82


    Sexton is good enough for Ireland A and thats really bout it!! Would have Wallace ahead of him and also Humps!


  • #197
    anonymous_joe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    curts82 wrote: »
    Sexton is good enough for Ireland A and thats really bout it!! Would have Wallace ahead of him and also Humps!

    So speaks an expert.


  • #198
    siltirocker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,846 ✭✭✭siltirocker


    anonymous_joe wrote: »
    So speaks an expert.


    I don't see where this Sexton love is coming from? Am i mad in the head or something, 1 or 2 brilliant performances v many crap ML apps. And some think he is only a year or two off O'Gara. Not a chance. Really people, Jesus!


  • #199
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    siltirocker wrote: »
    I don't see where this Sexton love is coming from? Am i mad in the head or something, 1 or 2 brilliant performances v many crap ML apps. And some think he is only a year or two off O'Gara. Not a chance. Really people, Jesus!

    Err, missed the semi final too did you?


  • #200
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,096 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    1st choice Leinster OH is injured. If he were fit, he be playing.

    Lets not split hairs though, It's Johnny's time to shine in the sun, lets hope he doesn't burn.

    Immaterial. He was always going to be the first choice outhalf going into next season, its merely happened a tad earlier. Isn't the first and won't the be the last player to inherit 1st choice status from injury.
    Am i mad in the head or something

    Clearly.


  • #201
    themont85
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,608 ✭✭✭themont85


    siltirocker wrote: »
    I don't see where this Sexton love is coming from? Am i mad in the head or something, 1 or 2 brilliant performances v many crap ML apps. And some think he is only a year or two off O'Gara. Not a chance. Really people, Jesus!

    The boy's got talent, any Leinster fan would say it watching him week in week out. Throughout the year the main Qs have been 1)can the glimmers of class be put into big game occasions and 2)Consistancy in kicking ect. Number 1 looks like been true, vs Munster and recently he has been great. Consistancy should be the goal now, ROG was given the 10 jersey at Munster in 2000 and shown faith, now Sexton needs similar. Personally I don't see why given a solid 1st half of next year why he can't be challenging for 10 in VI Nations 2010.


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  • #202
    Oaklyn Bald Thinker
    Posts: 4,333 ✭✭✭ Oaklyn Bald Thinker


    siltirocker wrote: »
    I don't see where this Sexton love is coming from? Am i mad in the head or something, 1 or 2 brilliant performances v many crap ML apps. And some think he is only a year or two off O'Gara. Not a chance. Really people, Jesus!


    I suppose people are just excited because if he gets better and he did look good in the semi final and other games he has played in,Ireland will benefit so much.

    Against Munster he was excellent and has done it in other games but he seemed to be criticised mainly because his goal kicking wasnt good,he is alot better at that now though.


    You think he is 2 years off O'Gara?

    O'Gara has been muck for Ireland for years at this stage and he hasnt been hot for Munster recently either.
    We won the Grandslam in spite of him not because of him.

    If Kidney wasnt in charge and a foreign coach had been brought in,he wouldnt have started the 6 nations games imo.
    The would have experimented.

    The guy is 32 at this stage,its gona happen sooner than late,so O'Gara fans will have to acept someone is going to take his mantle.


  • #203
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Lucca Important Owl wrote: »
    If Kidney wasnt in charge and a foreign coach had been brought in,he wouldnt have started the 6 nations games imo.
    The would have experimented.

    :pac::pac::pac:
    With who!?


  • #204
    Oaklyn Bald Thinker
    Posts: 4,333 ✭✭✭ Oaklyn Bald Thinker


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    :pac::pac::pac:
    With who!?

    Geordan Murphy played 10 in school and could still do a job.
    Sexton,Humphreys

    The french regularily play centres as 10's,the SA's play utility players.

    Once you have someone to kick goals and the 10 can pass your sound.


  • #205
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    He was always going to be the first choice outhalf going into next season,

    You mean like back when Leinster dropped him entirely earlier this season and he was left playing for Mary's? Like when they elected to start Nacewa ahead of him?

    He wasn't "always going to be the first choice outhalf," he was destroyed after the Connacht loss. His character was tested by the coaching staff and obviously he passed with flying colours.

    And I would agree that Contepomi would definitely be starting in the HEC Final ahead of Sexton, despite Sexton outplaying him by a huge amount this year. But that doesn't mean a thing. Contepomi wont even start at 12 for Toulon next year and if he does I'd feel sorry for them. Sexton could well kick on and put himself in a full-strength Irish 22 before the next 6 Nations. one things for sure, Im not a worried about any possible ROG injuries any more!


    Can't wait to see this team play next year with Reddan and himself, hope they can form a devastating partnership.


  • #206
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Lucca Important Owl wrote: »
    Geordan Murphy played 10 in school and could still do a job.
    Sexton,Humphreys

    The french regularily play centres as 10's,the SA's play utility players.

    Once you have someone to kick goals and the 10 can pass your sound.

    ...

    If they had played Geordan at 10 for Ireland then Kidney should have been shot. How would that be of ANY benefit to our team going forward? Murphy hasn't played 10 since 1996! Not even for Naas!

    Humphreys would have been the only option, he was on form looking into the 6 nations, but he's a mile and a half from O'Gara, and ROG hasn't been at his best for 3 years.



    Sexton hadn't even been playing provincial rugby at the time. Don't kid yourself into thinking he was even in the top three Irish starting outhalves. I'd say Wallace was ahead of him.


  • #207
    thehighground
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭thehighground


    Lucca Important Owl wrote: »
    Geordan Murphy played 10 in school and could still do a job.
    Sexton,Humphreys

    The french regularily play centres as 10's,the SA's play utility players.

    Once you have someone to kick goals and the 10 can pass your sound.

    Goose, see you read the Tribune interview with Geordan (I presume that is how you found out that he played 10 for the Schools Cup 16 years ago ;)

    Humphreys has been dropped by Ulster and isn't getting a look in for the International team.

    Anyway, three short months ago you were agreeing with someone that Sexton was **** and good riddance to him to Perpingham where he was rumoured for him to be going.

    Here is the thread: (Post No. 10) :D:D:D

    What a fickle lot you are :D



    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055504251&highlight=keatley


  • #208
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,079 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Immaterial. He was always going to be the first choice outhalf going into next season, its merely happened a tad earlier. Isn't the first and won't the be the last player to inherit 1st choice status from injury.


    It is completey material, He is a second choice player that has had a massive break. He will be in the lime light of world rugby come the week end, more by default than by design.

    Sexton is not the youngest of players, it is about time he showed his worth byond the ML.


  • #209
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    thehighground wrote: »
    Goose, see you read the Tribune interview with Geordan (I presume that is how you found out that he played 10 for the Schools Cup 16 years ago ;)

    Humphreys has been dropped by Ulster and isn't getting a look in for the International team.

    Anyway, three short months ago you were agreeing with someone that Sexton was **** and good riddance to him to Perpingham where he was rumoured for him to be going.

    Here is the thread: (Post No. 10) :D:D:D

    What a fickle lot you are :D



    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055504251&highlight=keatley
    In fairness, he didnt call him rubbish. Just said "he'd say so" to Sexton leaving


  • #210
    anonymous_joe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    siltirocker wrote: »
    I don't see where this Sexton love is coming from? Am i mad in the head or something, 1 or 2 brilliant performances v many crap ML apps. And some think he is only a year or two off O'Gara. Not a chance. Really people, Jesus!
    The talent's been evident for a while.

    He's been instrumental in freeing the Leinster backline up lately.
    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    You mean like back when Leinster dropped him entirely earlier this season and he was left playing for Mary's? Like when they elected to start Nacewa ahead of him?

    He wasn't "always going to be the first choice outhalf," he was destroyed after the Connacht loss. His character was tested by the coaching staff and obviously he passed with flying colours.

    And I would agree that Contepomi would definitely be starting in the HEC Final ahead of Sexton, despite Sexton outplaying him by a huge amount this year. But that doesn't mean a thing. Contepomi wont even start at 12 for Toulon next year and if he does I'd feel sorry for them. Sexton could well kick on and put himself in a full-strength Irish 22 before the next 6 Nations. one things for sure, Im not a worried about any possible ROG injuries any more!


    Can't wait to see this team play next year with Reddan and himself, hope they can form a devastating partnership.

    A lot of Leinster fans would criticise Cheika for the Nacewa at 10 experiment. Again, I think it was persisted with for too long, especially when we had someone like Sexton crying out for game time.


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  • #211
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    anonymous_joe wrote: »
    A lot of Leinster fans would criticise Cheika for the Nacewa at 10 experiment. Again, I think it was persisted with for too long, especially when we had someone like Sexton crying out for game time.

    Bah...

    I really hate to hear that. Probably the same fans who were giving out about Sexton when he was playing. Nacewa isn't a great out half, but he was our best option. Wouldn't go as far as saying that Sexton would have been worse, but Sexton needed that time to get his head straight after a bad run of form. I thought our backline looked pretty fluent with Nacewa in, I think if he'd had a little more time to gel with the team he would have made a pretty good operator at 10.

    I will say this. Nacewa was far better at outhalf than Contepomi was.

    Edit: I mean Contepomi AFTER he was put back in. Not the outstanding Felipe of yesteryear.


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