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Welfare payments for Communions

  • 07-05-2009 08:56AM
    #1
    Gran Hermano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,329 ✭✭✭


    It looks like the Irish government will pay out nearly €2.5 million this
    year to families on SW so they can pay for their childrens communions
    and confirmations.

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article6211594.ece
    More than 8,000 families have claimed €2.27m in emergency-needs payments this year — an average of €284 — to pay for dresses and suits for their children, a sharp rise on previous years. The scheme is funded by the Department of Social and Family Affairs.

    This is the first I've heard of our government subsidising an individual's
    religious beliefs. With the state of our economy at the moment I am
    appalled that my taxes are spent on this. Am I alone in finding it crazy
    we can allocate government funds to sponsor a religious ceremony?
    If the government is going to rape me financially with additional income
    and health levies I'd rather it was spent on something like the health service,
    education or the infrastructure.
    Tagged:


«1

Comments

  • #2
    raunch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27 ✭raunch


    No, you're not alone, it is a crazy waste of money, i'm pretty sure there are a lot more worthy things that need funding.


  • #3
    Mr.Lizard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭Mr.Lizard


    Will they be offering similar schemes for childhood ceremonies in other religions?


  • #4
    Saint_Mel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,602 ✭✭✭Saint_Mel


    Never knew about this payment until I heard about it on the radio the other day! WTF, I thought the government only paid for Mary Harneys dresses, hair,make up etc

    Total joke shop that they fork out for this!

    I heard one report that families were going to America to buy dresses etc cos its their daughters special day and they didnt want them to feel any less off than other kids in the class!


  • #5
    laurashambles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 224 ✭✭laurashambles


    Okay, this is just ridiculous. You don't NEED a suit or dress to get your first communion, ffs. It's not suposed to be about material things, it's about recieving the holy spirit. (or something) You go up to the alter, you get your wafer, you sit down and have a bit of a pray. End of.


  • #6
    podge3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,854 ✭✭✭podge3


    Gran Hermano wrote: »
    This is the first I've heard of our government subsidising an individual's
    religious beliefs.
    This has very little to do with religion - more to do with showing off and wasting money. Its really like a mini-wedding for the girls.

    AFAIK, some schools do it on the cheap by insisting on pupils wearing their school uniform.


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  • #7
    Gummy Panda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,919 ✭✭✭✭Gummy Panda


    Wait.. How much was the cancer injection programme for young girls going to cost?


  • #8
    Zadkiel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Zadkiel


    Eh hello!?
    Sunbeds and Limo's don't pay for themselves you know and what Jamelanie wants Jamelanie gets!

    Its like Christmas...gone too commeeershal tbh


  • #9
    Mr.Lizard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭Mr.Lizard


    Saint_Mel wrote: »
    Never knew about this payment until I heard about it on the radio the other day! WTF, I thought the government only paid for Mary Harneys dresses, hair,make up etc

    Now that is a waste of money! Especially when you consider a plastic bag only costs 15c.


  • #10
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,575 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Its not a specific payment for "Communionwear" as such, its an Exceptional Needs Payment from the HSE, which comes from Supplementary Welfare Allowance. It has to be applied for and is at the discretion of the Community Welfare Officer whether to grant it or not.

    Exceptional and Urgent Needs Payments :

    An Exceptional Needs Payment is a single payment to help meet an essential once-off exceptional expenditure, which a person could not reasonably be expected to meet out of their weekly income.

    Examples might include payments made to assist costs in relation to funerals, or to assist payment with electricity or natural gas bill (only in exceptional circumstances).



    I'm sure if members of other faiths applied and made a case they were also in exceptional need, it would be granted to them too.

    The question is, how to define "exceptional need..." :confused:


  • #11
    ibarelycare
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,456 ✭✭✭✭ibarelycare


    Tiaras, diamond necklaces and faux-wedding dresses cost a lot ya know?

    Linky


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  • #12
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    Gummy Panda wrote: »
    Wait.. How much was the cancer injection programme for young girls going to cost?


    Good point, instead of recieving the holy spirit in a transubstantied bit of wafer, would it not be better off if the priest blessed the vaccine instead?


  • #13
    connundrum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,563 ✭✭✭connundrum


    All kids should wear their school uniforms on the communion day.

    All kids should walk to the church.

    All kids should bring prepacked lunch for the occassion (with an extra slice of bread, no butter, if required)

    Give me the €2.3m and I'll distibute it amongst the kids on the street who'd kill for a bit of communion.. I'm sure it'd substitute a normal lunch for some.

    Disgraceful IMO.


  • #14
    Gran Hermano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,329 ✭✭✭Gran Hermano


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Its not a specific payment for "Communionwear" as such, its an Exceptional Needs Payment from the HSE, which comes from Supplementary Welfare Allowance. It has to be applied for and is at the discretion of the Community Welfare Officer whether to grant it or not.

    Exceptional and Urgent Needs Payments :

    An Exceptional Needs Payment is a single payment to help meet an essential once-off exceptional expenditure, which a person could not reasonably be expected to meet out of their weekly income.

    Examples might include payments made to assist costs in relation to funerals, or to assist payment with electricity or natural gas bill (only in exceptional circumstances).



    I'm sure if members of other faiths applied and made a case they were also in exceptional need, it would be granted to them too.

    The question is, how to define "exceptional need..." :confused:

    If you google "communion welfare payment" you'll find numerous TDs and
    MEPs have information on their own websites detailing how you can apply
    for a welfare grant specifically for communions or confirmations. Whilst
    the payment might have a different name it in reality is a payment
    subsidising religious beliefs.


  • #15
    snubbleste
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31,119 ✭✭✭✭snubbleste


    Already discussed http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055489789


  • #16
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,575 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Its the TDs who have re-named it. In reality it is the same fund that the Community Welfare Officer gives money out of for cots and buggies, or the "maternity grant" (which you'll find also isn't an official grant). Its all comes from the one pot.


  • #17
    LeixlipRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,081 ✭✭✭LeixlipRed


    This sort of thing makes my head hurt. How is a stupid dress or suit a necessity? There should be a law implemented making it a requirement for all these ceremonies to take place in school uniforms. The commercialisation of communions/confirmations makes a complete mockery of the national school system, where teachers basically spend two years preparing kids to rape the locals for tenners and twenties. Church and state seperation, will it ever happen?? Not likely :(


  • #18
    podge3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,854 ✭✭✭podge3


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Its all comes from the one pot.
    That pot needs to be capped PDQ :mad:


  • #19
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,575 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    podge3 wrote: »
    That pot needs to be capped PDQ :mad:

    When it comes to Communions I agree - Communions you have time to plan and save for - even if its only €2 a week from the time the child starts school. By the time they would be making their communion at age 8 you would have enough saved for a lovely communion outfit.

    I wouldn't like to see the payment of exceptional needs grants stopped completely. But I would like to see it seriously restricted.


  • #20
    kelle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,243 ✭✭✭kelle


    "Exceptional expenditure", my a**e. You can buy perfect secondhand suits, and dresses with veils in Oxfam at a fraction of the price.

    My son got his first holy Communion last weekend. There were little girls whose parents had obviously gone OTT with make-up and hair dos, but there were also girls without makeup and plain hair - and they looked every bit as beautiful.

    We hired a bouncy castle and invited a few relations over for a barbecue afterwards, which didn't break the bank and we all had a lovely time.


  • #21
    Saibh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,431 ✭✭✭✭Saibh


    They should be made pay the money back, see how much they will spend then.


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  • #22
    esharknz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 267 ✭✭esharknz


    I don't actually recall my communion costing my parents anything. Used an old, hand me down dress. No function, hair up etc.

    I just don't get it.....


  • #23
    Xiney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,085 ✭✭✭Xiney


    Saint_Mel wrote: »
    WTF, I thought the government only paid for Mary Harneys dresses, hair,make up etc

    Ah now in fairness, thank christ they do.

    Naked Mary Harney. The economy would be the least of our problems at that stage.


  • #24
    cjt156
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭cjt156


    kelle wrote: »
    We hired a bouncy castle and invited a few relations over...
    Xiney wrote: »

    Naked Mary Harney.


    Its a Win-Win situation, people!


  • #25
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Saw a child in Louis Copeland the other day getting fitted for a communion suit. I doubt they were on welfare, but they didn't seem like they were exactly loaded either. A Louis Copeland suit that'll be useless in 12 months time cos the child is too big for it? WTF are people thinking?
    What's wrong with some nice trousers and a blazer from Penneys, or even splash out from M&S. You'd easily get it for €50.


  • #26
    Jonathan
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 8,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jonathan


    Gran Hermano wrote: »
    It looks like the Irish government will pay out nearly 2.5 million this
    year to families on SW so they can pay for their childrens communions
    and confirmations.

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article6211594.ece



    This is the first I've heard of our government subsidising an individual's
    religious beliefs. With the state of our economy at the moment I am
    appalled that my taxes are spent on this. Am I alone in finding it crazy
    we can allocate government funds to sponsor a religious ceremony?
    If the government is going to rape me financially with additional income
    and health levies I'd rather it was spent on something like the health service,
    education or the infrastructure.

    Are you the fella that was saying you would be flying over to Spain or somewhere to buy cigarettes to avoid paying tax?


    I think you were.

    You have no right to be complaining because it isn't your money that they are giving out to people on SW.


  • #27
    Saint_Mel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,602 ✭✭✭Saint_Mel


    Xiney wrote: »
    Ah now in fairness, thank christ they do.

    Naked Mary Harney. The economy would be the least of our problems at that stage.

    It'd take your mind off the recession! Although maybe not in a good way!


  • #28
    netwhizkid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,558 ✭✭✭netwhizkid


    If the Government are providing money to circumcise islamic babies in the state run health care system then their is nothing wrong with this. Why cut one aspect in particular, the 1 or million is only a fart in a hurricane or the behemoth of Social Welfare and cutting the communion payments will not bring the country out of recession. Rent Allowance and deserted wives payments and unmarried mothers allowance should go first. The amount of dole scroungers claiming this and having their partner or baby daddy living in Council accommodation is unbelievable.


  • #29
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Could someone (parent?) correct me on the following...?

    I have been told that for a child today to be ALLOWED by the Catholic church in Ireland to take their first holy communion, they have to purchase a number of items - from the church.
    I believe that among these items are a prayer book, a cross/medal/on a chain or something that they have to wear on the day? They also have to be only attaired now in certain items which some parishes dictate where the items can be gotten?

    I am not a catholic. I don't ask out of any form of dis-like but only ask mainly if it's true that parents are indeed forced to buy some items in order for their child to then be accepted further by the Church of Rome?


  • #30
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Well, to be fair while this is a religous ceremony, its also a cultural one. So I don't see the issue with the government subsidising it. They do this kind of things of cultural activities I assume from time to time.


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  • #31
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    If they are subsidising these "cultural" events, can't other recognised religious organisations then claim religious discrimination if theirs aren't as subsidised equally or at all?

    Just a thought...

    They could be further opening Pandora's box with this one!







    (I await the usual AH jokes about Pandora's box) :pac:


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