Wales v Ireland (pre/during/post thread)

NickNolte · 17-03-2009 10:33pm

I wouldn't read into it too much. Warren Gatland is an idiot.

Anyone · 17-03-2009 11:03pm

I'm going to abroad at the weekend, and its unlikely I will be able to get to a pub, does anybody know if the rte wesbite streams these matches?

juvenal · 17-03-2009 11:12pm

Anyone wrote: »

I'm going to abroad at the weekend, and its unlikely I will be able to get to a pub, does anybody know if the rte wesbite streams these matches?

The RTÉ stream won't work outside of the island of Ireland. If you check here or in the streams thread (which is probably stickied at the top of the forum), you should find a working stream close to kick-off.

Stealdo · 17-03-2009 11:26pm

Did Tom McGuirk describe Gatland as a "Bitter little man" on Saturday or did I imagine that?

Gatland is part of the lions coaching set up so this is less than helpful in the long term.

southofnowhere · 17-03-2009 11:59pm

Stealdo wrote: »

Did Tom McGuirk describe Gatland as a "Bitter little man" on Saturday or did I imagine that?

Gatland is part of the lions coaching set up so this is less than helpful in the long term.

Think the phrase was 'arrogant little man'

18-03-2009 12:15am

Stealdo wrote: »

Did Tom McGuirk describe Gatland as a "Bitter little man" on Saturday or did I imagine that?

You imagined it. No way Gatland could be called little.

Fishtits · 18-03-2009 12:30am

Gatland is and always has been an ego driven guy

Edwards is the Drill Sergeant.

The difference here is the Kidney approach, which hands much more responsibility to the players, they lead the process, with advice being offered by the coaching team, otherwise known as the empowerment system...

I think we will definitely win the championship, we may not achieve the Grand slam...

Its still one hell of an achievement for Irish Rugby.

Reesy · 18-03-2009 12:49am

NickNolte wrote: »

I wouldn't read into it too much. Warren Gatland is an idiot.

...which is why Ireland got rid of him for Eddie? An idiot, with results like that for Wales? Keep them insults coming!

Seriously - me, as a Welshman, I'm very happy to see him in charge.

COME ON WALES!!! CYMRU AM BYTH!!!

Macsimus · 18-03-2009 12:55am

Gatland let himself down with those comments - cant understand what he felt he had to gain.

Unfortunate for stringer, but even though physically he's always punched above his weight, Kidney had to start with O'Leary (phillips, powell, and Shanklin are all going to be targeting the 9-10-12 axis).

Wales mirroring the 'Careful Now' attitude in putting MJ on the wing instead of LH. Though I think hes making a mistake with Powell, the mans a fine athlete but hes also a feckless eejit who will get himself isolated unless Martyn Williams babysits him for the whole game

I really hope we stuff those fake tan wearing Taffs - some of the sh**e they have been spouting on the Welsh forums has been shocking

[Jackass] · 18-03-2009 1:33am

Juvenal, absolutely superb piece of writing there, thanks for that. You should consider dabbling in sports journalisim if you don't already. You have a talent for it and I'll take this oppertunity to thank you for all the Before/During/After threads of this 6 nations, I've enjoyed reading / contributing to them all.

Back on topic, I'm very excited about this game. As said, we are very lucky to be of an era that we may get to witness an Irish Grand Slam, and after so many near misses, I really sense along with many others that this MAY BE our time.

I've tried to avoid the "GS" word for a while, but now it has to be spoken about. Nothing would give me greater pleasure than seeing Ireland lifting a significant international trophy and I would love to be able to witness it first hand in Cardiff, so anyone who is going, how lucky you are.

I think the Irish team is very strong, possibly our strongest 15. My personal taste is for Best at 2 and Stringer at 9, but the replacements coming in are more than capable and don't significantly detract from the other options.

The main concern is that Wales will have their backs up and their backline looks as dangerous as ever. But I think BOD & Co. may shade it in that division and up front I think we have a slight edge also ... but how much of this could be off-set against home advantage and the urgency of the Welsh?

The second row and back row battles look mouth watering to the neatural (I'd imagine), from an Irish perspective, exciting and concerning in equal measure.

I just feel that this may come down to a war of attrition after 60 minutes or so of blistering rugby, and it's difficult to look past the Munster front 5 or the tactical game of O'Gara or the genuis of O'Driscoll to just have something extra there when required and the experience and street smarts to know there is a job to be done and to know how to do it.

Key for Ireland is control the first 15 - 20 minutes. Look to collect from the re-strat, play for field position and pin the Welsh back for a while.

What we really don't want to happen is for the Welsh to get some good, clean possesion, good field position and get the ball out wide at any stage in the opening quarter.

One Shane Williams dart or a Shanklin break may be all it takes for the Welsh to smell blood and go for the jugular and as we've all seen, a Welsh side with it's tails up in Cardiff is a very difficult machiene to stop.

I'm cautious, nervous and excited, but I'm going with Ireland by less than 7. Possibly a grand stand finish for a grand slam victory. Either way, as long as it's victory and we lift that trophy, I wont care.

COME ON IRELAND!!

stephen_n · 18-03-2009 1:38am

subfreq wrote: »

Gatlin
"It's how they handle that pressure. There has been expectation on them over a number of years, and in a couple of World Cups as well.

"At international level, when there has been that expectation either to perform in Six Nations tournaments or World Cups, they've sometimes faltered a little bit.

Well he should know! considering how he bottled in a world cup as Ireland manager lol

themont85 · 18-03-2009 4:44am

Reesy wrote: »

...which is why Ireland got rid of him for Eddie? An idiot, with results like that for Wales? Keep them insults coming!

Seriously - me, as a Welshman, I'm very happy to see him in charge.
COME ON WALES!!! CYMRU AM BYTH!!!

One major reason Gatland was sacked from the Irish job(aside from blowing WC 99 and the GS in 01) was that he was reluctant to take on other coaches to help in areas such as defence(notable because Shaun Edwards has been a crucial compoment to his success with Wales and Wasps respectively). Gatland was paranoid because the IRFU foisted EOS on him and was clearly being groomed to take the job eventually.

EOS is a fine rugby coach who has flaws to him which only really became exposed in his final couple of years, up until then he worked very well with Ireland. It was the right time for Gatland to leave Ireland and he has improved as a coach since with Wasps taking on board the likes of Edwards as a real quality coach.

Some of those Gatland comments are disgracful imo, they show a real lack of respect for the opposition and he is trying to stoke a fire in the Welsh players which could turn nasty on the pitch. No class to them. And he is the Lions forwards coach in 3 months which will contain mostly players from both these teams? I can't believe it, he has gone down in my books with some of those quotes. The arrogance of a Kiwi and current arrogance of Welsh rugby really is a cocktail which turns me right of. The team though and Declan Kidney(the master of this sort of thing) will I'm guessing use these comments in a positive manner in what should be a heck of a game.

The Welsh have no excuses if they lose in claiming the game wasn't that important given the comments from some quarters. It will be a great occasion on Saturday. One thing I do hope for is if Ireland win that Gatland will show some respect(as Declan Kidney always does the opposition both before and after) and finally lets his bitterness go as regards his past with Ireland.

thomond2006 · 18-03-2009 9:08am

[Jackass] wrote: »

Juvenal, absolutely superb piece of writing there, thanks for that. You should consider dabbling in sports journalisim if you don't already. You have a talent for it and I'll take this oppertunity to thank you for all the Before/During/After threads of this 6 nations, I've enjoyed reading / contributing to them all.

+1.

:)

twinytwo · 18-03-2009 9:15am

Reesy wrote: »

...which is why Ireland got rid of him for Eddie? An idiot, with results like that for Wales? Keep them insults coming!

Seriously - me, as a Welshman, I'm very happy to see him in charge.
COME ON Ireland!!! CYMRU AM BYTH!!!

Fixed that for you;)

Serenity Now! · 18-03-2009 9:19am

Deleted User wrote: »

You imagined it. No way Gatland could be called little.

Everyone is little to McGurk. He's 6"5

twinytwo · 18-03-2009 9:22am

themont85 wrote: »

One major reason Gatland was sacked from the Irish job(aside from blowing WC 99 and the GS in 01) was that he was reluctant to take on other coaches to help in areas such as defence(notable because Shaun Edwards has been a crucial compoment to his success with Wales and Wasps respectively). Gatland was paranoid because the IRFU foisted EOS on him and was clearly being groomed to take the job eventually.

EOS is a fine rugby coach who has flaws to him which only really became exposed in his final couple of years, up until then he worked very well with Ireland. It was the right time for Gatland to leave Ireland and he has improved as a coach since with Wasps taking on board the likes of Edwards as a real quality coach.

Some of those Gatland comments are disgracful imo, they show a real lack of respect for the opposition and he is trying to stoke a fire in the Welsh players which could turn nasty on the pitch. No class to them. And he is the Lions forwards coach in 3 months which will contain mostly players from both these teams? I can't believe it, he has gone down in my books with some of those quotes. The arrogance of a Kiwi and current arrogance of Welsh rugby really is a cocktail which turns me right of. The team though and Declan Kidney(the master of this sort of thing) will I'm guessing use these comments in a positive manner in what should be a heck of a game.

The Welsh have no excuses if they lose in claiming the game wasn't that important given the comments from some quarters. It will be a great occasion on Saturday. One thing I do hope for is if Ireland win that Gatland will show some respect(as Declan Kidney always does the opposition both before and after) and finally lets his bitterness go as regards his past with Ireland.

While im confident that the lads will shut down the Wales attack i have worries on how bowe would handle Shane Williams, Bowe is frankly too tall to try and keep up with his side stepping etc... both Williams and Shanklin will have to be stopped dead. While D'Arcy and Drico are more than enough to handle both the welsh centres.. it shall be close. Even though imo we are the better team it will prob come down to a contest between O'Gara and Jones

18-03-2009 9:42am

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Everyone is little to McGurk. He's 6"5

I meant from a waistline perspective

Webbs · 18-03-2009 10:12am

I dont see what why Gatlands comments are so bad, Wales record against Ireland is the worst of the 6N in recent times especially at home! These are players they play against week in week out so yes they probably do dislike the Irish players more in rugby terms than anyone else, the worst it is in my view is a backhanded compliment.

As for the game there is nothing to call between the teams and it will come down to who wants to go out and win the game most will decide it. I also dont think it will be close whoever wins will do so by more than 10points as once someone gets their nose in front then they will get more confident and in the end win comfortably.
I think Ireland have the same feel and momentum that Wales had last year and there is a belief that they cant lose, so for me my head says Ireland and my heart Wales!

telemachus · 18-03-2009 10:38am

What a difference a year makes

, when Wales won it last year everyone here was lauding Gatland as a great coach and impressive in infusing some rigidity and consistency in a mercurial Welsh team; I also recall more than a few moaning about how they wished Ireland had kept him on over O'Sullivan ( this was pre Kidney mania and in the depths of the "omg we're doomed" O'sullivan period). I also imagine if he pulls off a great escape and wins the game by 13 points he won't care in the slightest what "class" or "dissapointment" are attributed to him.

As an English man I look forward to future 6 nations where you all lambast poor Martin Johnsons every press conference at length, because it will probably indicate he's in with a chance of swiping the title ahead of Ireland. Better to be spoken about than not at all it seems.

Noffles · 18-03-2009 10:44am

themont85 wrote: »

One major reason Gatland was sacked from the Irish job(aside from blowing WC 99 and the GS in 01) was that he was reluctant to take on other coaches to help in areas such as defence(notable because Shaun Edwards has been a crucial compoment to his success with Wales and Wasps respectively). Gatland was paranoid because the IRFU foisted EOS on him and was clearly being groomed to take the job eventually.

EOS is a fine rugby coach who has flaws to him which only really became exposed in his final couple of years, up until then he worked very well with Ireland. It was the right time for Gatland to leave Ireland and he has improved as a coach since with Wasps taking on board the likes of Edwards as a real quality coach.

Some of those Gatland comments are disgracful imo, they show a real lack of respect for the opposition and he is trying to stoke a fire in the Welsh players which could turn nasty on the pitch. No class to them. And he is the Lions forwards coach in 3 months which will contain mostly players from both these teams? I can't believe it, he has gone down in my books with some of those quotes. The arrogance of a Kiwi and current arrogance of Welsh rugby really is a cocktail which turns me right of. The team though and Declan Kidney(the master of this sort of thing) will I'm guessing use these comments in a positive manner in what should be a heck of a game.

The Welsh have no excuses if they lose in claiming the game wasn't that important given the comments from some quarters. It will be a great occasion on Saturday. One thing I do hope for is if Ireland win that Gatland will show some respect(as Declan Kidney always does the opposition both before and after) and finally lets his bitterness go as regards his past with Ireland.

Methinks someone has fallen head over heels for the mind games.... relax.

Wales Forever!

madds · 18-03-2009 11:46am

I'm a little surprised/worried to see Flannery in ahead of Best as I see the lineout being hugely important next Saturday and Flannery's darts are average at the best of times. Best gives us a better delivery IMO.

What does Flannery bring to the tea that Best cannot? Mobility and aggression around the pitch? I thought Best did well in these areas in what was a very physical game against Scotland.

twinytwo · 18-03-2009 1:10pm

Noffles wrote: »

Methinks someone has fallen head over heels for the mind games.... relax.

Wales Forever!

Well up until saturday anyway.. then they will be shown a lesson in how to play rugby:P

Eoin · 18-03-2009 1:10pm

velocirafter wrote: »

O'Leary is there to guard against brakes from Philips, plus you can bring stringer on around 60 minutes to up the tempo

Yep - how big is Phillips - 6 ft 2" and 16 stone or so?

I thought Stringer did do well last week, and perhaps if this was any other team we were playing, then he would have started - but I think this might be the right choice given his opposite number.

As someone pointed out in another thread recently - Kidney will use the bench tactically, not just in case of injury or the last 2 minutes of the game like O'Sullivan was prone to.

juvenal wrote: »

Have to say I'm a little disappointed in Gatland with some of those remarks. I appreciate that the mind games are a component of professional sport, and our own Declan Kidney is a master of it in his own quiet way. I've a lot of time for Gatland as a coach and he's achieved a hell of a lot since being shafted by the IRFU, but this just smacks of a lack of class.

He may have been shafted, but he had his chance of winning a Grand Slam for Ireland as well - and if I recall correctly, made some very questionable decisions for the decider against Scotland which cost us dearly.

Rattlehead_ie · 18-03-2009 1:19pm

Correct me if Im wrong but the one thing I've noted about the Irish this year is they play for the full 80 mins. They have the ability to up the gears when they want to and most of the sides seem not as fit. (dont get me wrong the teams are all fit, just Irish a lil more).

Having Murphy and Stringer come on in say 55/60 mins will speed up the tempo of the Irish backline which both players are more suited too a more attacking faster go forward pace. This would increase the presure on a tiring, hopefully battered by then Welsh team.

As for Flannery Vs Best, I can't be sure of this choice, not saying its wrong or right, but only DK can tell you why he has chosen this.

I am really looking forward to this game, alot of nerves as I think the true Irish Rugby fans would love to see this team \ squad get what they truely do deserve. They have worked so hard and had to put up with alot of **** from media and others.

Webbs · 18-03-2009 1:29pm

Rattlehead_ie wrote: »

Correct me if Im wrong but the one thing I've noted about the Irish this year is they play for the full 80 mins. They have the ability to up the gears when they want to and most of the sides seem not as fit. (dont get me wrong the teams are all fit, just Irish a lil more).

Having Murphy and Stringer come on in say 55/60 mins will speed up the tempo of the Irish backline which both players are more suited too a more attacking faster go forward pace. This would increase the presure on a tiring, hopefully battered by then Welsh team.

As for Flannery Vs Best, I can't be sure of this choice, not saying its wrong or right, but only DK can tell you why he has chosen this.

I am really looking forward to this game, alot of nerves as I think the true Irish Rugby fans would love to see this team \ squad get what they truely do deserve. They have worked so hard and had to put up with alot of **** from media and others.

The respective benches may have a big say in this match - they look pretty even especially as Wales have lost Peel.
If Wales bring on Hook and Roberts then they may provide a spark to take Wales over the finishing line, but Hook especially can go AWOL on game management and Ireland could pressure him into mistakes and points.
I think both teams will be struggling from 60mins on as the collisions upfront will be huge as the contact area is where the game invariably won or lost

pred racer · 18-03-2009 1:46pm

Webbs wrote: »

The respective benches may have a big say in this match - they look pretty even especially as Wales have lost Peel.
If Wales bring on Hook and Roberts then they may provide a spark to take Wales over the finishing line, but Hook especially can go AWOL on game management and Ireland could pressure him into mistakes and points.
I think both teams will be struggling from 60mins on as the collisions upfront will be huge as the contact area is where the game invariably won or lost

Thats the thing. There are a lot of posts about stringer et al coming on at 60 against a tiring welsh side. Their own bench isn't too shabby and they will be hoping to do the same. The "first" 15 are going to have to do the majority of it. It would be stringer for me, but I can see the reason o'leary is on too.

From the wales side I wouldnt let G Henson on the pitch, I dont rate him at the moment he looks like a player with too little rugby played and very little confidence.

Im pretty confidant BTW, I reckoned Scotland would be our hardest win of this six nations, I think we can take wales if we play like we can!

themont85 · 18-03-2009 1:49pm

Noffles wrote: »

Methinks someone has fallen head over heels for the mind games.... relax.

Wales Forever!

Mind games, well at least im not playing then. DK knows how to handle the media BS before big games.

I'm actually just very dissapointed that Gatland could say some of those things when he is a former coach of the opposition and will be coaching a few of them in a few months. They go beyond mind games imo, they're quite insulting.

themont85 · 18-03-2009 1:51pm

Rattlehead_ie wrote: »

Correct me if Im wrong but the one thing I've noted about the Irish this year is they play for the full 80 mins. They have the ability to up the gears when they want to and most of the sides seem not as fit. (dont get me wrong the teams are all fit, just Irish a lil more).

Having Murphy and Stringer come on in say 55/60 mins will speed up the tempo of the Irish backline which both players are more suited too a more attacking faster go forward pace. This would increase the presure on a tiring, hopefully battered by then Welsh team.

As for Flannery Vs Best, I can't be sure of this choice, not saying its wrong or right, but only DK can tell you why he has chosen this.

I am really looking forward to this game, alot of nerves as I think the true Irish Rugby fans would love to see this team \ squad get what they truely do deserve. They have worked so hard and had to put up with alot of **** from media and others.

I have to agree, the Irish team have been able to play the whole 80 minutes. They've upped their game at various parts of the game and although they haven't played that well they've deserved their victories.

anonymous_joe · 18-03-2009 1:58pm

themont85 wrote: »

One major reason Gatland was sacked from the Irish job(aside from blowing WC 99 and the GS in 01) was that he was reluctant to take on other coaches to help in areas such as defence(notable because Shaun Edwards has been a crucial compoment to his success with Wales and Wasps respectively). Gatland was paranoid because the IRFU foisted EOS on him and was clearly being groomed to take the job eventually.

EOS is a fine rugby coach who has flaws to him which only really became exposed in his final couple of years, up until then he worked very well with Ireland. It was the right time for Gatland to leave Ireland and he has improved as a coach since with Wasps taking on board the likes of Edwards as a real quality coach.

Some of those Gatland comments are disgracful imo, they show a real lack of respect for the opposition and he is trying to stoke a fire in the Welsh players which could turn nasty on the pitch. No class to them. And he is the Lions forwards coach in 3 months which will contain mostly players from both these teams? I can't believe it, he has gone down in my books with some of those quotes. The arrogance of a Kiwi and current arrogance of Welsh rugby really is a cocktail which turns me right of. The team though and Declan Kidney(the master of this sort of thing) will I'm guessing use these comments in a positive manner in what should be a heck of a game.

The Welsh have no excuses if they lose in claiming the game wasn't that important given the comments from some quarters. It will be a great occasion on Saturday. One thing I do hope for is if Ireland win that Gatland will show some respect(as Declan Kidney always does the opposition both before and after) and finally lets his bitterness go as regards his past with Ireland.

I disagree with all this 'Gatland's a disgrace' stuff.

The old mind-games expression springs immediately to attention.

Let's be realistic, last season we were awful, a combination of factors, England looked fantastic and then at half time against Wales something went drastically wrong and they turned shíte again, France were a bit fou avec Lievremont, and Scotland and Italy were as ever - so Wales' win in that context while still impressive is obviously a result of external and not just internal factors.

This season, there are clear and ominous signs that English and French rugby are getting their houses in order. Meanwhile, Ireland (us

) have in essence come back from the dead, and are suddenly looking very nasty. Look at it objectively - Ireland have a weak scrum, but a frightening pack around the pitch, especially at the breakdown, with a lot of strength and stamina in there. Throw in a backline with the lethal O'Driscoll, D'Arcy, and a host of other talents and the shambles of last year has been replaced by a team that's playing like Kidney's evil Munster sides on crack.

Given the World Cup's exposition of some degree of mental weakness, it serves Wales well to heap pressure on us, and take it off themselves. Wales as underdogs with nothing to lose and everything to gain, against an Ireland team with a possible weak temperament (again trying to think from a non-Irish perspective), it's an obvious tactic.

And also, Gatland fúcked up majorly in the Italy game, and the loss to France has been made embarrassing by the debacle at Twickenham on Sunday, meaning suddenly Gatland's messianical status is turning to one of egotistical moron. How fickle is sports? But he has this opportunity to have another triumphant season.

telemachus wrote: »

What a difference a year makes , when Wales won it last year everyone here was lauding Gatland as a great coach and impressive in infusing some rigidity and consistency in a mercurial Welsh team; I also recall more than a few moaning about how they wished Ireland had kept him on over O'Sullivan ( this was pre Kidney mania and in the depths of the "omg we're doomed" O'sullivan period). I also imagine if he pulls off a great escape and wins the game by 13 points he won't care in the slightest what "class" or "dissapointment" are attributed to him.

As an English man I look forward to future 6 nations where you all lambast poor Martin Johnsons every press conference at length, because it will probably indicate he's in with a chance of swiping the title ahead of Ireland. Better to be spoken about than not at all it seems.

I'd happily have Johnson coach us if he looked a decent coach. (Oh God, I feel dirty having typed that. I might just rediscover religion and peg it down to a confessional...)

Gatland was always a bit of a díck, but so was Eddie, but then, what does that matter? It's success that counts afterall. I mean, right now, there are things Kidney does which I don't like, but hey, we've improved, so I can cope with it.

nacho libre · 18-03-2009 2:01pm

I'd say some of the Welsh players might even feel Gatland went over the top with his comments.
One thing is for sure Kidney won't be influenced or distracted by such mind games, he is too wily for that. All he needs to say to the Irish players is give your answer to Gatland on the field of play.

Wales v Ireland (pre/during/post thread)

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