Log Gasifying Boiler

reilig · 09-03-2009 2:37pm #1

So now that the grants have been available for a while for the Log Gasifying Boilers, can anyone who has installed one give us positive or negative information on theirs? Has there been a lot of them installed in Ireland and are they performing as well as they are supposed to?

I have just taken delivery of an Atmos DC 25S gasification boiler, 1500l buffer tank, laddomat, thermal release valve, central heating pump, thermostats, pressure gauge, pump bypass, associated expansion vessels and fittings. I have them for €3500, delivered to my door. A neighbour recently did a training course on them and has fitted one or two. He has told me that €500 should cover him for installation. Its a far cry from the quotes of €8000 to €12000 that I received from installers for the identical set up.

The only other thing that I have to get made is a twin wall flue. Hopefully it won't be too expensive, but I recon it will come in at €500+

I have already started stacking wood for use next winter.

It would be nice to hear other people's advice or experience.

webels · 10-03-2009 10:51pm

Sorry Reilig cant provide any information just interested in your setup. I am renovating a farmhouse at the moment and thinking of putting in a wood/oil boiler, as mentioned in a thread further down the page. However i have also looked at wood gasification boilers, if you dont mind me asking did you purchase the boiler etc direct from a supplier abroad, as they still seem to be quite expensive over here?

reilig · 11-03-2009 10:28am

webels wrote: »

Sorry Reilig cant provide any information just interested in your setup. I am renovating a farmhouse at the moment and thinking of putting in a wood/oil boiler, as mentioned in a thread further down the page. However i have also looked at wood gasification boilers, if you dont mind me asking did you purchase the boiler etc direct from a supplier abroad, as they still seem to be quite expensive over here?

I went a funny way around it. I bought the boiler from a supplier in Northern Ireland for £1300 + VAT. It cost me about €300 more than if I had bought it from Poland. But now I have a guarantee and back up with it. It was as simple as going up and collecting it from their Depot in Armagh.

My 1500l buffer tank, laddomat, and all fixtures and fittings came from Poland on a pallet. I saved about €2000 on buying all here (inc delivery).

See the order form from the polish supplier below. If you want any names, I'll PM them to you.

1 x Laddomat 21 = €222
1 x One-way thermal release valve WATTS STS-20 (STS 20) = 42EUR

1 x Insulated accumulation tank (without coils) GALMET SG (B) - 1500l (70-150000) = 1,111EUR

1 x Pressurised expansion vessel DUKLA B type 25l - up to 3 bar () = 30EUR

1 x Central heating pump GRUNDFOS UPS 25-60 180 = 94EUR
With Filter
With 2 connectors

2 x Thermometer INTROL (up to) 120 centigrades (thread 1/2") () = 7EUR
1 x Flue thermostat for LADDOMAT ECOVARM 50-300 C 1,5m - RS 300 (RS 300) = 24EUR
1 x Manometr INTROL - 0.16 MPa (thread: 1/2", lower connection) () = 8EUR
2 x Safety Valve Pintossi 1,5 bar - 1/2" () = 8EUR

1 x Pump by-pass 1,5" (40mm) (made of steel) = 44EUR inc VAT
1 x Pressurised expansion vessel DUKLA B type 220l - up to 3 bar = 175EUR inc VAT

webels · 11-03-2009 12:54pm

Thanks Reilig for the detailed reply. If you could PM me that would be great and i will keep my options open as I am meeting the Plumber this weekend.

Thanks
eddie

pool fan · 11-03-2009 10:52pm

hi

can you pm me the dtails too please?

Evergreen · 23-03-2009 4:06pm

reilig wrote: »

A neighbour recently did a training course on them and has fitted one or two. He has told me that €500 should cover him for installation.

Is your neighbour registered by SEI to install Atmos boilers? If he is not then he cannot commission the boiler for the SEI grant. The grant setup for the gasification boiler is very different than for pellet boilers. For pellet boilers once you are on the list you can commission any pellet boiler, for gasification boilers only people trained by the importer or the manufacturer can commission that boiler. If you are registered for an ETA wood gasification boiler but not an atmos then you cannot commission the atmos

reilig wrote: »

Its a far cry from the quotes of €8000 to €12000 that I received from installers for the identical set up.

I disagree with this quote very much, I have been working with gasification boilers for nearly 5 years and there is a huge difference between the cheaper boilers and the more expensive systems.

I have worked with Atmos Boilers, Attack Boilers (almost a carbon copy of the Atmos) plus the ETA Heiztechnik SH Log Gasification boiler and there is no comparison between them. People have different reasons for buying a cheaper boiler or a more expensive one and that's ok but to say that there is no difference is not correct.

From my experience here are some examples of the differences

Exhaust Control
Attack/Atmos - A draught fan that runs at a continuous level with now temperature or O2 control.
ETA Boiler - Variable speed draught fan that is controlled in relation to the temperature of the exhaust gas and the level of O2 in the exhaust. O2 level is an indication of the moisture content in the burning fuel and the quality of the fuel (hardwood or softwood). O2 monitoring allows the boiler to alter burning settings so as to always have optimum burning conditions.

Primary/Secondary Air
Attack/Atmos - Primary air flap that is lifted open/close by a chain connect to a thermostatic valve in the boilers water. no secondary air control
ETA Boiler - Automatic primary and secondary air valve control that is controlled in conjunction with the exhaust fan speed. The O2 meter dictates that opening of these valves, for example wood up to 40% moisture requires more oxygen to burn than wood with moisture as low as 20%.

Efficiency
Attack/Atmos - depending on the type of wood, and other factors the efficiency varies from 80% to 83% heat converted into useable hot water.
ETA Boiler - A much higher range between 92% and 94% converted into useable hot water.

Convenience
ATTACK/Atmos - Two doors means that to light the boiler you have to reach into the boiler to ignite your kindling. Once the kindling is burning you then have to fill up the boiler with logs.

ETA Boiler - Three doors. You can fill the boiler completely in one go and then open the middle lighting door for ignition without having to worry about burning your fringe. Also, due to the O2 stat the ETA is able to determine when the boiler is running out of wood fuel and starts to run an ember preservation program that will keep hot embers (when burning hardwood) in the chamber so that ignition the following day is automatic. If you are burning softwood these embers turn to charcoal at a much faster rate, but lighting then is as simple as rolling up a newspaper sheet and lighting the charcoal.

Attack/Atmos - no weather influenced heating
ETA Boiler - weather influenced heating with built in zone timers

Warranty
Attack/Atmos - 5 years parts on heat exchanger, 12 months parts on everything else
ETA - 5 years parts and labour on everything

I could go on but I think that you can get the message from that

reilig · 23-03-2009 4:43pm

Thanks for the information, its useful and interesting to get another perspective on it.
First of all, my house is a new build, so my neighbour does not need to be SEI registered for my purposes as I am not eligable for the grant. However, he is registered with SEI and has completed an Atmos installation training course, so I'm safe in that regard.

I suppose, my main reason for choosing the Atmos was cost. I believe that it is the cheapest gasification boiler on the market. I never said that there was "no difference between boilers" or at least I did not intend to suggest this. In my earlier post, I trying to state that I got my Atmos Dc25s boiler very much cheaper than buying an identical atmos dc25s from an Irish installer/supplier.

My choice was based on simplicity. The Atmos DC25s is a simple boiler with no complicated electronic controls, and/or automatic air valves or O2 meters.
Perhaps it is less efficient than some other more expensive boilers on the market, but for me, the extra 5% in efficiency does not justify the extra cost.

Primary/Secondary air - well i have a constant supply of dry wood - all ash and under 20% moisture. It shouldn't be a problem.

Ok, maybe lighting the boiler will be more difficult than an ETA, but it can't be that complicated, Can it? I have never heard of anyone complaining about the difficulty of lighting an atmos.

Personally I haven't heard a lot of information on the ETA gasifying boiler in Ireland. But as I said, I did a lot of research on gasifying boilers. ETA have a good name. However, I visited a number of small district heating schemes in the Schwarzweld, near Freiburg in Germany a few years ago. They were using 60kw eta gasifying boilers to heat small houses and apartments. They did indicate a number of ongoing problems with the eta boilers - especially with O2 sensors. They also indicated that the boilers were no way as efficient as you suggest.

Prompted by this, I chose the less complicated option. Maybe its a bad choice, but going on feedback from other Atmos users, it should meet my needs.

Finally, would you be able to give an indication of the cost of a fully installed ETA 25kw gasifying boiler with 1500l buffer tank? I know that the ETA is higher spec, but would I have to pay €6000 extra for and ETA system above the Atmos?

Evergreen wrote: »

Is your neighbour registered by SEI to install Atmos boilers? If he is not then he cannot commission the boiler for the SEI grant. The grant setup for the gasification boiler is very different than for pellet boilers. For pellet boilers once you are on the list you can commission any pellet boiler, for gasification boilers only people trained by the importer or the manufacturer can commission that boiler. If you are registered for an ETA wood gasification boiler but not an atmos then you cannot commission the atmos

I disagree with this quote very much, I have been working with gasification boilers for nearly 5 years and there is a huge difference between the cheaper boilers and the more expensive systems.

I have worked with Atmos Boilers, Attack Boilers (almost a carbon copy of the Atmos) plus the ETA Heiztechnik SH Log Gasification boiler and there is no comparison between them. People have different reasons for buying a cheaper boiler or a more expensive one and that's ok but to say that there is no difference is not correct.

From my experience here are some examples of the differences

Exhaust Control
Attack/Atmos - A draught fan that runs at a continuous level with now temperature or O2 control.
ETA Boiler - Variable speed draught fan that is controlled in relation to the temperature of the exhaust gas and the level of O2 in the exhaust. O2 level is an indication of the moisture content in the burning fuel and the quality of the fuel (hardwood or softwood). O2 monitoring allows the boiler to alter burning settings so as to always have optimum burning conditions.

Primary/Secondary Air
Attack/Atmos - Primary air flap that is lifted open/close by a chain connect to a thermostatic valve in the boilers water. no secondary air control
ETA Boiler - Automatic primary and secondary air valve control that is controlled in conjunction with the exhaust fan speed. The O2 meter dictates that opening of these valves, for example wood up to 40% moisture requires more oxygen to burn than wood with moisture as low as 20%.

Efficiency
Attack/Atmos - depending on the type of wood, and other factors the efficiency varies from 80% to 83% heat converted into useable hot water.
ETA Boiler - A much higher range between 92% and 94% converted into useable hot water.

Convenience
ATTACK/Atmos - Two doors means that to light the boiler you have to reach into the boiler to ignite your kindling. Once the kindling is burning you then have to fill up the boiler with logs.

ETA Boiler - Three doors. You can fill the boiler completely in one go and then open the middle lighting door for ignition without having to worry about burning your fringe. Also, due to the O2 stat the ETA is able to determine when the boiler is running out of wood fuel and starts to run an ember preservation program that will keep hot embers (when burning hardwood) in the chamber so that ignition the following day is automatic. If you are burning softwood these embers turn to charcoal at a much faster rate, but lighting then is as simple as rolling up a newspaper sheet and lighting the charcoal.

Attack/Atmos - no weather influenced heating
ETA Boiler - weather influenced heating with built in zone timers

Warranty
Attack/Atmos - 5 years parts on heat exchanger, 12 months parts on everything else
ETA - 5 years parts and labour on everything

I could go on but I think that you can get the message from that

Evergreen · 23-03-2009 5:30pm

Yes you are quite right about the problems with the O2 sensor; they did cause some problems for a while. Bosch, the only manufacturer of these items swapped their manufacturing base from Germany to Brazil and the quality of the product dropped off the face of the earth. They have rectified this problem now after spending millions replacing sensors around the world at their cost so this problem is no longer an issue.

I can understand why you purchased the DC25 in the manner you did, the mark up by the importers here is quite remarkable to say the least. I get the feeling that they have look at the price of the well known names such as ETA, Fröling, KOB, etc and decided to pitch in at half the price when in fact they could have sold them at a quarter of the price and still made good profit.

I could give you an example of installed costs for an ETA system,

Items Included

• 20kW gasification boiler
• Return temperature riser valve
• Emergency thermal cooling valve
• 1100 Buffer tank with installation
• 250 L expansion vessel
• Pipework and fittings from boiler to buffer tank
• Weather compensation system
• 2 x Mixing valves for two heating zones
• 2 x room thermostats with remote zone on/off/timer
• Outdoor temp sensor
• Stainless steel chimney to 1 meter above roof line on single story house
• Installation
• VAT
• EUR 13,000

Or
• 30kW gasification boiler
• Return temperature riser valve
• Emergency thermal cooling valve
• 1650 Buffer tank with installation
• 250 L expansion vessel
• Pipework and fittings from boiler to buffer tank
• Weather compensation system
• 2 x Mixing valves for two heating zones
• 2 x room thermostats with remote zone on/off/timer
• Outdoor temp sensor
• Stainless steel chimney to 1 meter above roof line on single story house
• Installation
• VAT
• EUR 14,250

Most new house these days wouldn’t require a 30kW, with current insulation standards a 20kW boiler will heat over 3,000 sq feet without any problems.

reilig · 25-03-2009 12:28pm

Thanks for that Evergreen. Its interesting to know.

I suppose the main reason that I am putting in the Atmos is cost. My original plan was to install an oil boiler and have a solid fuel range as a back up.
I could get away with €300 to €500 in oil per year at current prices and with this set up.

But I do have unlimited access to good quality wood.

However, to spend €13000 on a gasification boiler would have a very long payback in comparison to the above system at current oil prices.

Now I know that the price of oil will definitely increase in the future, so I really did want to go with a renewable system above the oil. After spending €4000, my payback time is much reduced. I have a system that I can have unlimited free fuel for. Ok, maybe it is not as efficient as other more expensive gasifying boiler - but this is justified in price. However, with my access to fuel, this efficiency difference has less of an impact on me in comparison to someone who would have to pay for their fuel.

Yes, I agree that some of the importers / installers have been greedy with their mark-ups. And yes, if I had to buy from a supplier, I probably would not be buying an Atmos because, for a small amount extra, I could have a boiler with a lot of extras.

Anyway, best of luck with your business.

Evergreen wrote: »

Yes you are quite right about the problems with the O2 sensor; they did cause some problems for a while. Bosch, the only manufacturer of these items swapped their manufacturing base from Germany to Brazil and the quality of the product dropped off the face of the earth. They have rectified this problem now after spending millions replacing sensors around the world at their cost so this problem is no longer an issue.

I can understand why you purchased the DC25 in the manner you did, the mark up by the importers here is quite remarkable to say the least. I get the feeling that they have look at the price of the well known names such as ETA, Fröling, KOB, etc and decided to pitch in at half the price when in fact they could have sold them at a quarter of the price and still made good profit.

I could give you an example of installed costs for an ETA system,

Items Included

• 20kW gasification boiler
• Return temperature riser valve
• Emergency thermal cooling valve
• 1100 Buffer tank with installation
• 250 L expansion vessel
• Pipework and fittings from boiler to buffer tank
• Weather compensation system
• 2 x Mixing valves for two heating zones
• 2 x room thermostats with remote zone on/off/timer
• Outdoor temp sensor
• Stainless steel chimney to 1 meter above roof line on single story house
• Installation
• VAT
• EUR 13,000

Or
• 30kW gasification boiler
• Return temperature riser valve
• Emergency thermal cooling valve
• 1650 Buffer tank with installation
• 250 L expansion vessel
• Pipework and fittings from boiler to buffer tank
• Weather compensation system
• 2 x Mixing valves for two heating zones
• 2 x room thermostats with remote zone on/off/timer
• Outdoor temp sensor
• Stainless steel chimney to 1 meter above roof line on single story house
• Installation
• VAT
• EUR 14,250

Most new house these days wouldn’t require a 30kW, with current insulation standards a 20kW boiler will heat over 3,000 sq feet without any problems.

PeteHeat · 26-03-2009 12:42am

Hi reilig,

Do you intend to install the oil boiler as a back up system ?

reilig · 26-03-2009 11:11am

PeteHeat wrote: »

Hi reilig,

Do you intend to install the oil boiler as a back up system ?

Right no I don't intend to install the oil boiler. I have a stanly range in my kitchen and a stove in my sitting room. These should be sufficient for back up. People that have already installed gasifying boilers tell me that I will not need oil to back it up. However, my system will be suitable for an oil boiler (god forbit) if the gasifying boiler was not up to scratch.

gmbpurple · 05-08-2009 1:41pm

Hi,

I'm building at the moment and have had the log gasifiying system in mind from the beginning unfortunately the guy who was quoting me at the end of last year (rumour has it) has gone out of business. The way you've done it seems to make more economic sense, i was quoted €11/12k for the boiler 25kw, 1500l tank, parts, fitting etc. Any chance you could send on the details of where you purchased and who did the fitting for you? By the way how is the heating working out for you? Anything you'd have done differently in hindsight? I believe the system is very efficient once you get used to it and a child could use it, am i right?

many thanks, G

iwb · 28-08-2009 10:04am

Hi Reilig,

Could you update us on your system? Have you installed it yet? How is it working out?

reilig · 12-10-2009 2:02pm

For anyone interested, My gasification boiler was lit for the first time yesterday and Both me any my plumber were quite impressed. 2 fills of the boiler (total of 1 standard wheelbarrow) heated the 1500 litre buffer tank to 90 degrees at the top and 70 degrees at the bottom. It worked perfect, just like its supposed to. There was very little smoke from it. No rattles or bangs or ticks

. Its actually very quiet.

Costs:

Atmos DC 25s, 1500 l buffer tank, Laddomat, circulation pump, safety valves, pressure release valves, mixing valves, temperature gauges etc. €3000 including delivery.

Stainless steel twin wall flue €1000

Copper pipe (1 1/4). Pipe fittings, solder fittings and associated plumbing tape and accessories €1000 (I was shocked at the cost - but 1 1/4" fittings are very very expensive.

Labour €500

Total €5500.

Satisfaction: Couldn't be happier at the moment. Looking forward to getting home from work this evening to put another fire in it.

iwb wrote: »

Hi Reilig,

Could you update us on your system? Have you installed it yet? How is it working out?

samoht · 16-10-2009 4:35pm

Hi Reilig,

Glad to hear your boiler performed well first time. What height is your insulated flue from the ground? I am in an urban environment and am wondering if the smoke level would pose a problem

reilig · 19-10-2009 11:26am

samoht wrote: »

Hi Reilig,

Glad to hear your boiler performed well first time. What height is your insulated flue from the ground? I am in an urban environment and am wondering if the smoke level would pose a problem

My flue is just over the apex of a single storey garage - about 4 metres in total. Personally I don't think that the level of smoke will cause a problem. the boiler actually does not produce very much smokewhen it is in full burn - there is just a bit of smoke on the start up, but nothing more than any pellet boiler produces on start up.

samoht · 21-10-2009 8:48am

reilig wrote: »

My flue is just over the apex of a single storey garage - about 4 metres in total. Personally I don't think that the level of smoke will cause a problem. the boiler actually does not produce very much smokewhen it is in full burn - there is just a bit of smoke on the start up, but nothing more than any pellet boiler produces on start up.

Thats interesting. I thought that the flue for the Atmos had to be of the order of 5 or 6 metres above the boiler, i.e. 6 or 7 metres from ground level. Is your house situated in open countryside with no obstructions to airflow?
Are you happy with the size of your buffer tank or could boiler deal with a larger size?

reilig · 21-10-2009 10:26am

samoht wrote: »

Thats interesting. I thought that the flue for the Atmos had to be of the order of 5 or 6 metres above the boiler, i.e. 6 or 7 metres from ground level. Is your house situated in open countryside with no obstructions to airflow?
Are you happy with the size of your buffer tank or could boiler deal with a larger size?

The house is in open countryside - on top of a hill, so no problem with updraught. Haven't had any problems with downdraught either - and there has been a few windy days. There is just a tin hat cowel on top. Decided to test it with this first before I spent a couple of hundred quid on an antidowndraught cowel. So far so good.

I think the buffer is just about right size for it. Its 1500l. It took 2 burns to bring it up to 80 degrees after the first lighting. It heats the house to about 20 degrees constantly as I am still drying it out and have doors and floors going in. After 24 hours it is down at approximately 60 degrees. After 48 hours it is down at 40 degrees. One good burn will bring it back to 80 again. I'm sure I'll have to light it every day in the cold of winter. But for now I'm pretty happy. And I still have to insulate all the pipes betweenthe boiler and tank in the garage and I have to do some more insulation in the attic of my house when it if fully wired.

On a further note, I have a load of paperbricks made from waste newspaper for the last 6 months - so they are good and dry and burn well in a stove. However, they do not burn well in the gasifying boiler. In fact they almost put the flame out and smouldered for 24 hours (which isn't good for the boiler).

On a better note, I have a good supply of turf and have experiemented by mixing them with the timber in the boiler with great success. They burn for a very long period and produce great heat. The only downside is the amount of ash that they produce. But the ash is very easy to clean from the boiler.

whiteray · 01-11-2009 5:00pm

Hi reilig

I have sent you a private mail.

Thanks

thesimplelife · 20-01-2010 3:31pm

Hi Reilig,

Can you pm me the details of your NI supplier please? Lots of requests I see.:)

srdb20 · 21-01-2010 1:01am

Hi would appreciate a pm on this to please.

copper12 · 23-01-2010 2:37am

Reilig
When cleaning out the Atmos boiler be careful that you don’t damage the nozzle it becomes brittle over a period
I have damaged mine cleaning out the boiler to vigorously
It where the secondary air for combustion comes in that will be damaged
Since we both installed the same boiler without the help of a grant I am very pleased with the performance of mine over the last cold spell my heating was on 24--7
Saved a fortune

reilig · 25-01-2010 11:22am

copper12 wrote: »

Reilig
When cleaning out the Atmos boiler be careful that you don’t damage the nozzle it becomes brittle over a period
I have damaged mine cleaning out the boiler to vigorously
It where the secondary air for combustion comes in that will be damaged
Since we both installed the same boiler without the help of a grant I am very pleased with the performance of mine over the last cold spell my heating was on 24--7
Saved a fortune

Hi Copper, I think your boiler was GS model where as mine was a DS model. I don't think mine has a nozzle, if it has, I haven't seen it or passed remarks on it. I have had some after dealings with Kotly for smaller parts and if you were stuck for a part, they would post it to you at a reasonable cost in under a week. They were great.
I agree with you, my boiler was great during the cold spell too. On those days and nights that it was -9, I was having 2 fills a day in the boiler and it was sufficient to heat my 2000 sqft house.

Without the grant, my boiler was installed for less than €6k. The cheapest quote I got for the same boiler from an Irish supplier was €13k.

I think the mods said that it was ok to name specific companies so long as you had no connection to them, so feel free to delete them if I'm wrong.

www.mlarge.co.uk Northern Ireland Atmos supplier

www.kotly.com Polish Atmos supplier

dryan · 04-02-2010 3:47pm

Are they designed to work with rads or UFH? or both?

reilig · 04-02-2010 4:10pm

dryan wrote: »

Are they designed to work with rads or UFH? or both?

Both I think. Although I have mine working solely with Rads. However, you could put a mixing valve and separate pump on to have the correct temp for UFH - it wouldn't be an expensive addition.

Bitten & Hisses · 05-03-2010 4:32pm

Evergreen wrote: »

I have worked with Atmos Boilers, Attack Boilers (almost a carbon copy of the Atmos) plus the ETA Heiztechnik SH Log Gasification boiler and there is no comparison between them. People have different reasons for buying a cheaper boiler or a more expensive one and that's ok but to say that there is no difference is not correct.

From my experience here are some examples of the differences

Exhaust Control
Attack/Atmos - A draught fan that runs at a continuous level with now temperature or O2 control.
ETA Boiler - Variable speed draught fan that is controlled in relation to the temperature of the exhaust gas and the level of O2 in the exhaust. O2 level is an indication of the moisture content in the burning fuel and the quality of the fuel (hardwood or softwood). O2 monitoring allows the boiler to alter burning settings so as to always have optimum burning conditions.

Primary/Secondary Air
Attack/Atmos - Primary air flap that is lifted open/close by a chain connect to a thermostatic valve in the boilers water. no secondary air control
ETA Boiler - Automatic primary and secondary air valve control that is controlled in conjunction with the exhaust fan speed. The O2 meter dictates that opening of these valves, for example wood up to 40% moisture requires more oxygen to burn than wood with moisture as low as 20%.

Efficiency
Attack/Atmos - depending on the type of wood, and other factors the efficiency varies from 80% to 83% heat converted into useable hot water.
ETA Boiler - A much higher range between 92% and 94% converted into useable hot water.

Convenience
ATTACK/Atmos - Two doors means that to light the boiler you have to reach into the boiler to ignite your kindling. Once the kindling is burning you then have to fill up the boiler with logs.

ETA Boiler - Three doors. You can fill the boiler completely in one go and then open the middle lighting door for ignition without having to worry about burning your fringe. Also, due to the O2 stat the ETA is able to determine when the boiler is running out of wood fuel and starts to run an ember preservation program that will keep hot embers (when burning hardwood) in the chamber so that ignition the following day is automatic. If you are burning softwood these embers turn to charcoal at a much faster rate, but lighting then is as simple as rolling up a newspaper sheet and lighting the charcoal.

Attack/Atmos - no weather influenced heating
ETA Boiler - weather influenced heating with built in zone timers

Warranty
Attack/Atmos - 5 years parts on heat exchanger, 12 months parts on everything else
ETA - 5 years parts and labour on everything

I could go on but I think that you can get the message from that

I am currently trying to decide on a log gasification boiler for my upcoming new build. I can see the advantage in the ETA versus the Atmos/Attack, but I feel that a boiler somewhere between the two would suit me best for the following reasons:
1. I would prefer to keep my zoning controls independent of the boiler.
2. I do not expect to reap any great award from the weather compensation function.

What do I like about the ETA?
1. The 5-year guarantee on everything.
2. Ease and convenience of lighting
3. Superior efficiency, although this is not really a deal breaker for me, as I have my own wood supply.

I suppose what I'm asking is, is there a decent wood gasification boiler on the market which sits somewhere between the ETA and Atmos?

reilig · 06-03-2010 8:21pm

Kotly ( www.kotly.com ) do an Orlan boiler which is slightly more expensive than the Atmos Boiler. This boiler is sold in Ireland and has been rebranded to the names of its many supplying companies. Companies like Eco Angus and Ableman supply these. Their prices are in the region of 12k to 14k euro. May be worth your while to look at Kotly's prices.

Funnily, the reasons why you do not want to consider the atmos boiler are the reasons why I bought it - except the warranty of course. The reasons why it is easy to light are because it has sensors which cut off air supplies when the fire is near out. To me, Sensors = Trouble. The atmos is easy to light. A few balls of rolled up paper under a couple of dry pieces of timber and it goes off easy.

Warranty is an issue. I have a 2 year warranty on mine and at the price I paid for it, I'm willing to live with that. There's very little that can go wrong with it. It's simple to operate and hasn't many things that go wrong with it. If something does go wrong, it would be very easily fixed, as I said, its a simple piece of equipment. Paying 12k as opposed to 6k does not warrant an extra 3 years warranty. To be honest, for the 6k extra, I could have 3 more atmos boiler bought. I don't see me needing them though.

Bitten & Hisses wrote: »

I am currently trying to decide on a log gasification boiler for my upcoming new build. I can see the advantage in the ETA versus the Atmos/Attack, but I feel that a boiler somewhere between the two would suit me best for the following reasons:
1. I would prefer to keep my zoning controls independent of the boiler.
2. I do not expect to reap any great award from the weather compensation function.

What do I like about the ETA?
1. The 5-year guarantee on everything.
2. Ease and convenience of lighting
3. Superior efficiency, although this is not really a deal breaker for me, as I have my own wood supply.

I suppose what I'm asking is, is there a decent wood gasification boiler on the market which sits somewhere between the ETA and Atmos?

Bitten & Hisses · 08-03-2010 5:05pm

reilig wrote: »

Paying 12k as opposed to 6k does not warrant an extra 3 years warranty. To be honest, for the 6k extra, I could have 3 more atmos boiler bought. I don't see me needing them though.

An excellent point there Reilig, although I have absolutely no intention of paying 12K for a system. My plumber has no interest in selling equipment, so he will install whatever I specify, unless I'm doing something stupid.
One question on the Atmos, what is the difference between a DC 25S and a DC 25 GS?

reilig · 09-03-2010 1:03pm

Bitten & Hisses wrote: »

An excellent point there Reilig, although I have absolutely no intention of paying 12K for a system. My plumber has no interest in selling equipment, so he will install whatever I specify, unless I'm doing something stupid.
One question on the Atmos, what is the difference between a DC 25S and a DC 25 GS?

Atmos say that the GS has additional ceramic inserts in the boiler so that combustion is better. I was advised aganst getting one of them - the extra ceramic is like a wrap around coil and it can be easily damaged by throwing in a log. Advice was given to me by M Large's sales man, who would have sold me either model. Also, in his opinion, the extra efficiency (1%) of the GS did not warrant the extra cost. And there was a much greater cost difference between the GS and DS with them (unlike Kotly)

Bitten & Hisses · 09-03-2010 1:38pm

Thanks Reilig. Another question for you: Did you go with rads or underfloor heating in your house? I'm being strongly advised to go with underfloor, as it is being claimed that rads linked to a buffer tank will be extremely inefficient.

reilig · 09-03-2010 2:41pm

Bitten & Hisses wrote: »

Thanks Reilig. Another question for you: Did you go with rads or underfloor heating in your house? I'm being strongly advised to go with underfloor, as it is being claimed that rads linked to a buffer tank will be extremely inefficient.

I've got Rads. I don't think there's anything inefficient about them. Both myself and the Mrs work, so its great when we come home to be able to just press the boost button on the time clock and have the radiators roasting warm within 3 minutes. Doesn't underfloor heating need to be really on all the time to keep constant heat in your house??? I always thought UFH was more suited to Geothermal which doesn't heat the water too much rather than the Gasification boiler which has water up to 100 degrees. I'm sure it would work with UFH by putting a mixing valve along side the buffer tank to regulate the temp of the water going to the house.

Problem that I have at the moment is that the house is too warm and I'm finding it hard to sleep with it. Had to turn down the the bedroom zone last night.

I'm burning almost 100% turf at the moment as I'm waiting for wood to season. Turf is not as good as wood, I can tell that by how fast the boiler goes down in temp, but it keeps the thing going. Have all my wood cut for next winter and its currently stacked under cover.

Log Gasifying Boiler

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