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Midlands International Airport: Good idea or not?

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  • 13-02-2009 10:51pm
    #1
    medoc
    Registered Users Posts: 966 ✭✭✭


    Hi All

    There are plans under way for an Airport in the Midlands, in Offaly near Tubber and Horseleap. It was proposed a few years ago and the company behind the idea are now talking to An Bord Pleanala about submitting an application. The plans include Irelands longest runway and a moterway connection on the M6 and it is intended for international as well as domestic traffic. Other phases of the devolopment include a bussiness centre, Technology park, distribution centre and a rail link.

    Does any one have any opinions on the idea good or bad.

    I think the idea has its merits in providing competition for Dublin but does Ireland need another airport? I dont think it will come to much for the forseable future anyway, due to the recession. It could take a lot of pressure of dublin airport and the M50 and serve a large part of the country.
    Tagged:


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    #2
    Schuhart
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,835 ✭✭✭Schuhart


    medoc wrote: »
    I think the idea has its merits in providing competition for Dublin but does Ireland need another airport?
    Ireland is all airported out along the West, and I'd be surprised if there wasn't some rationalisation during the next coupe of years. So, no, on the face of it I don't see space for another airport.

    I'd suggest thinking of the example of Waterford airport. Its been pretty much squeezed out by Dublin and Cork airports. I'd expect that a Midlands airport would face similar problems, as its potential catchment would surely also be served by Shannon, Knock, Dublin and possibly even Galway for what its worth.
    medoc wrote: »
    I dont think it will come to much for the forseable future anyway, due to the recession. It could take a lot of pressure of dublin airport and the M50 and serve a large part of the country.
    I think you are right to be realistic about the recession. Dublin Airport is cutting back its investment programme, in the expectation of falling numbers. That suggests 'pressure' will be relieving itself.


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    #3
    Cosmo Kramer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,990 ✭✭✭Cosmo Kramer


    In principle the area east of the midlands would be ideal for an airport, because Dublin must be one of the largest European cities to only have one airport and no 2nd tier low cost out-of-city type alternative. There would also be plenty of potential passengers in the midlands area as well as those using it from the city, I know of people from as far away as North Tipp and Cavan that use Knock sometimes as a less hastle alternative to Dublin.

    However, in reality it is had to imagine such a development getting off the ground in such a highly populated area without encountering major local opposition - everyone wants an airport nearby, but nobody wants one right next door.


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    #4
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Any airport located half way along the M6 would serve both Dublin and Galway (each being just over an hour away when the M6 is complete), but possibly at the expence of existing airports due to running costs being lower.
    An airport aimed at just serving the midlands would be doomed to fail, the population couldn't support it.

    However, because the road layout in Ireland is so Dublin centred, it would not serve the rest of the country as well, all the good roads have Dublin at one end.

    From some towns (e.g Caven) it would be easier to get to Dublin for example even though the midlands airport would be closer, as the crow flies


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    #5
    Bluetonic
    Registered Users Posts: 7,588 ✭✭✭Bluetonic


    Definitely a non runner, have people not seen the financial problems Cork, Shannon and Knock have?

    A low cost terminal on the west of the Dublin airport would be a better option.


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    #6
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    Think about shutting Dublin airport maybe and pop the airport on a spur slightly to the west of the DOOR??

    Trouble is we would need a new airport to be well connected to public transport, which wont happen anywhere in the midlands.


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    #7
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,385 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Bluetonic wrote: »

    A low cost terminal on the west of the Dublin airport would be a better option.

    Read somewhere recently about a proposal for Baldonnel again. I think it was South Dublin Coco discussing it. At least taxpayers money would be saved.


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    #8
    Schuhart
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,835 ✭✭✭Schuhart


    Deleted User wrote: »
    However, because the road layout in Ireland is so Dublin centred, it would not serve the rest of the country as well, all the good roads have Dublin at one end.
    In fairness, its hard to envisage it any other way. Part of what the lesson of Knock should be telling us is that if you position an airport in random field, the entire transport infrastructure of the nation, along with its population distribution, won't suddenly morph to accommodate it. Because Cavan people have all kinds of reasons to get to Dublin, its no surprise to find that people from Cavan in search of an airport find that journey easier.

    The point is to pick an existing centre of scale, like Cork, and see development centering around it. Because, similarly, you can expect that people will have all kinds of reasons to need to get to Cork, say for university or hospital services. So you don't need to bend the law of gravity to envisage them getting their airport their too.

    But that's just to make a general point. The bottom line is we already have too many airports.


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    #9
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    Oh for the love of god, another save the WEST I mean MIDLAND'S

    For a country of 4.4million MAX do really need another airport.

    Rant over.

    P.S No it would be ABSURD to close Dublin Airport. end of story.


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    #10
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    mfitzy wrote: »
    Read somewhere recently about a proposal for Baldonnel again. I think it was South Dublin Coco discussing it. At least taxpayers money would be saved.

    But the roads there are really bad.

    All the local roads spill onto the N7, and there is really bad connections in general.


    The Only way I see that going ahead
    1. If Metrowest was completed.
    2. The Naas Road widened to four lanes each way to Redcow including NWC junction.
    3. a distrubuter road built from Newlands to Newcastle and onto the Kill roads
    4. Auxullary lanes built for the Baldonnel/Citywest/local traffic grade separated from the heavy long distance traffic i.e N7
    Example of number 4 would be the Lyon A6 near the Paris suburbs.


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    #11
    invincibleirish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,219 ✭✭✭invincibleirish


    Sums up our Country's way of doing things, a Midlands airport ties in with our Spatial strategy & Decentralisation plans and expansive Interurban Motorway network. All we need now is a grant towards the runway and some PSOs and we're away.


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    #12
    GerardKeating
    Registered Users Posts: 7,527 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    medoc wrote: »
    Does any one have any opinions on the idea good or bad.

    If Dublin/Cork/Shannon airports and the motorway network did not exist, then the midlands would be the best place for a single large international airport to servce the country with the motorway network radiating out from it to Dubln/Cork/Limerick/Galway/Sligo/Dundalk/Kilkenny/Wexford etc.., but they do exist and wont go away any time soon.

    but if it does happen, it will be an even bigger white elephant than Knock...


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    #13
    Bards
    Registered Users Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭Bards


    GerardKeating wrote: »
    If Dublin/Cork/Shannon airports and the motorway network did not exist, then the midlands would be the best place for a single large international airport to servce the country with the motorway network radiating out from it to Dubln/Cork/Limerick/Galway/Sligo, but they do exist and wont go away any time soon.

    but if it does happen, it will be an even bigger white elephant than Knock...

    Sligo???????????????????

    You do mean Waterford. Are we that bad at teaching geography in Schools


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    #14
    TestTransmission
    Registered Users Posts: 19,106 ✭✭✭✭TestTransmission


    Great location for an airport,but do we really need another one?


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    #15
    invincibleirish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,219 ✭✭✭invincibleirish


    Bards wrote: »
    Are we that bad at teaching geography in Schools

    We're even worse at teaching Economic Geography......;).


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    #16
    GerardKeating
    Registered Users Posts: 7,527 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    Bards wrote: »
    Sligo???????????????????

    You do mean Waterford. Are we that bad at teaching geography in Schools

    List was not ment to be exhaustive, but i updated it to include the sunny south-east...;)


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    #17
    veryangryman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,531 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    Im sorry but i disagree with practically all of you

    An airport supported by an airport development fee for each passenger (like with Knock) would be a naff idea.

    Yes i know there are many logistical barriers to this, but the cynic in me thinks that the guys in charge are too stupid to contemplate an airport that is in a landlocked county.

    As for the so-called "white elephant" Knock - Bull. No way is that a white elephant. Huge passenger numbers using it. Possibly the most successful airport in the country for its size. A decent alternative for those of us who have better things to do than park on the M50. Now if they could only sort the roads out around it, we'd be flying

    Tee Hee - I just punned without knowing it! :p


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    #18
    Schuhart
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,835 ✭✭✭Schuhart


    veryangryman wrote: »
    As for the so-called "white elephant" Knock - Bull. No way is that a white elephant. Huge passenger numbers using it. Possibly the most successful airport in the country for its size. A decent alternative for those of us who have better things to do than park on the M50.
    There aren't hugh numbers of people using it. The situation is much as I said. About 600,000 passengers use Knock, which is about 2% of all air traffic in the State. to put that in perspective, Mayo has about 2 to 3% of national population. So Knock Airport does OK, sort of. But mentioning it in the same context as Dublin is mistaken.

    For what its worth, 75% of all air passengers entering the State use Dublin. In other words, people seem to choose Dublin despite extra capacity in other airports. Despite the West being paved with airports, we've an hourly bus from Galway to Dublin airport. So, apparently, people either like parking on the M50 or find they actually don't end up parking on the M50.

    Cork and Shannon each account for about 10% of air traffic. (That said, Shannon's share is distorted by American troops and the remnants of the stopover). So each of those two airports dwarf Knock. But of the mickey mouse airports like Farranfore and Sligo, Knock carries the most passengers. But so what. All that tells us is building an airport in a random field achieves precious little.
    veryangryman wrote: »
    Now if they could only sort
    the roads out around it, we'd be flying
    But is the point not that the country won't morph just because we chuck an airport somewhere.

    Contrast the present situation with might might have been if instead of building Knock, we had moved Galway airport to a site capable of taking jets. Then any improvements in transport would have grown organically out of the arrangement.


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    #19
    marmurr1916
    Registered Users Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭marmurr1916


    The best location for any new airport would be Galway since it's about mid-way along the west coast and Galway has (or will have) excellent road and good rail links with the other main centres of population.

    However, Ireland is too small a country, geographically and in terms of population, to make all the existing airports viable, let alone one more.

    Only four of our airports (Dublin, Cork, Shannon and Knock) are commercially viable at present, and the last two, especially Knock, are operating on the margins.

    The best airport policy would be to consolidate services at these four airports and concentrate on improving public transport links (especially buses) between these airports and the main centres of population in their hinterlands.


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    #20
    G_R
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 5,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭G_R


    marmurr1916 wrote: »
    The best location for any new airport would be Galway since it's about mid-way along the west coast and Galway has (or will have) excellent road and good rail links with the other main centres of population.

    However, Ireland is too small a country, geographically and in terms of population, to make all the existing airports viable, let alone one more.

    Only four of our airports (Dublin, Cork, Shannon and Knock) are commercially viable at present, and the last two, especially Knock, are operating on the margins.

    The best airport policy would be to consolidate services at these four airports and concentrate on improving public transport links (especially buses) between these airports and the main centres of population in their hinterlands.

    +1 well said

    someone is talking sense


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    #21
    veryangryman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,531 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    Fukc consolidation, or any attempts to consolidate from the business world

    Inspired by greed, tight-arsedness and knee-jerky business practice

    Lads, (and i speak to every one of you on boards who is a manager when i say this), get the finger out and be a bit bold sometimes.

    This whole cowering in the corner, doing consolidations etc is an easy-way out for people who face having to actually think about a solution to tighter budgets

    Rant over


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    #22
    KevR
    Registered Users Posts: 3,110 ✭✭✭KevR


    marmurr1916 wrote: »
    The best location for any new airport would be Galway since it's about mid-way along the west coast and Galway has (or will have) excellent road and good rail links with the other main centres of population.

    However, Ireland is too small a country, geographically and in terms of population, to make all the existing airports viable, let alone one more.

    Only four of our airports (Dublin, Cork, Shannon and Knock) are commercially viable at present, and the last two, especially Knock, are operating on the margins.

    The best airport policy would be to consolidate services at these four airports and concentrate on improving public transport links (especially buses) between these airports and the main centres of population in their hinterlands.

    I agree. I've never been able to understand why we built so many small/medium airports along the West Coast* - none of them compete with Dublin in a big way IMO. To me, it would have made more sense to, instead, have built one bigger (but obviously not massive) airport somewhere (possibly Galway because, as you said, it's mid-way along the coast) and then to have hugely improved road (soon they will be up to scratch anyhow) and public transport links so it's easy for the entire West Coast to get to.

    By car from where I live: Galway Airport = 20 mins (if there is no traffic), Shannon Airport less than 1 hour, Knock Airport = 1 hour, Dublin Airport less than 2 and a half hours.

    I mostly find myself using Dublin Airport because I'm not able to get the flights I want from any of the other airports which are nearer to me.

    I don't think another airport in the midlands would be able to compete with Dublin in a big way either, not to mention competition from all the West Coast airports.

    *Talking about the likes of Galway, Knock, Shannon, Sligo, Kerry, Sligo airports. Wouldn't include Cork Airport in that.


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    #23
    paulm17781
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,858 ✭✭✭paulm17781


    veryangryman wrote: »
    Fukc consolidation, or any attempts to consolidate from the business world

    Inspired by greed, tight-arsedness and knee-jerky business practice

    Lads, (and i speak to every one of you on boards who is a manager when i say this), get the finger out and be a bit bold sometimes.

    This whole cowering in the corner, doing consolidations etc is an easy-way out for people who face having to actually think about a solution to tighter budgets

    Rant over

    Wow, in the last 20 minutes, the economy just got fixed. Senseless economic thinking and a rant was all we needed. :rolleyes:


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    #24
    serfboard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,675 ✭✭✭serfboard


    marmurr1916 wrote: »
    Only four of our airports (Dublin, Cork, Shannon and Knock) are commercially viable at present, and the last two, especially Knock, are operating on the margins.

    The best airport policy would be to consolidate services at these four airports and concentrate on improving public transport links (especially buses) between these airports and the main centres of population in their hinterlands.

    Possibly the most sensible thing I've read on boards for quite a long time.


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    #25
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    For the love of god people, get a grip will you.
    WE don't need another airport on this island for christ sakes. This thread is pure and utter idiocy to the highest degree out there. There is enough airports.

    Uk has 60million and has only a few international Airports.
    Ireland a population of 4.3million has 3 nearly four international airports

    To be quite blunt. Get over it the lot of ye. It's futile talk. Dublin/Shannon/Cork and maybe Knock is enough....... Improve roads to these areas, as someone said is enough.
    Your never to far from any of these airports, given the vastly improved motorway network in this country.

    On top of this we have many local airports that connect to the main airports also.


    This thread is utter lunacy. I'm surprised no one has said this already.


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    #26
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    mysterious wrote: »
    This thread is utter lunacy. I'm surprised no one has said this already.

    You're preaching to the choir!


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    #27
    richiepoorman
    Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭richiepoorman


    I live in the midlands and i personnaly would prefer not to have to go to Dublin airport whenever i leave the country, however the only real advantage of a midlands airport at this time would be the creation of new employment for the local area/economy.:)


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    #28
    Manuel
    Registered Users Posts: 418 ✭✭Manuel


    How could this thread be considered lunacy? The thing is with An Bord Pleanála for Chrissakes.

    Don't shoot the messenger, people.


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    #29
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    richiepoorman wrote: »
    I live in the midlands and i personnaly would prefer not to have to go to Dublin airport whenever i leave the country, however the only real advantage of a midlands airport at this time would be the creation of new employment for the local area/economy.:)

    We are talking about an international airport. Not a ****ing local spar.

    Building an airport just for jobs, is ****ing stupid also. What the hell is going with people in these times. The lunacy is just unbearable for me.

    What do you want the aiport beside your house or something.

    THERE IS ENOUGH AIRPORTS IN THIS COUNTRY. Lock this thread. it's redicolous


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    #30
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    I live in a two story house, I would make it quicker to the airport in a single story house.

    Why cus I won't have to take the stairs in my house. Its so convienant to get their quicker.

    I have tbis sexual attraction to having an aiport near me, infact I think we should have an runway built for each house.

    I nominate this thread the most dysfunctional thread of the year award.


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    #31
    Schuhart
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,835 ✭✭✭Schuhart


    mysterious wrote: »
    I nominate this thread the most dysfunctional thread of the year award.
    Is that most dysfunctional in this forum, or most dysfunctional on the whole site?


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