Not again...

Nodin · 12-02-2009 07:47PM

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

"They", being specifically the people who run the UK, whoever they may be, don't need to bring a motion before parliament to discuss it. Do you think the idea has never been broached with them, that they have never even heard of these possibilities? I'd be worried if they were so insulated from modern society that they'd never had to think about it..

Is it on the programme of any party over there? No. Therefore it was a load of hysteria - a non-event.

And here you are, some time after the non-event, still talking it up, whilst making strange overreaching statements concering muslims in Britian and linking them to this case of a dismissed Foster carer despite a complete lack of evidence for same.

They are not coming to get you. Relax.

ChocolateSauce · 13-02-2009 12:54AM

Nodin wrote: »

Is it on the programme of any party over there? No. Therefore it was a load of hysteria - a non-event.

And here you are, some time after the non-event, still talking it up, whilst making strange overreaching statements concering muslims in Britian and linking them to this case of a dismissed Foster carer despite a complete lack of evidence for same.

They are not coming to get you. Relax.

Right, so because something isn't on a written political agenda that must mean there isn't anything to be concerned about.

Nodin · 13-02-2009 09:06AM

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

Right, so because something isn't on a written political agenda that must mean there isn't anything to be concerned about.

Well, if its not explicilty or implicilty on the agenda, I'm about as worried about it as I amabout this kind of thing

ChocolateSauce · 14-02-2009 01:41AM

Nodin wrote: »

Well, if its not explicilty or implicilty on the agenda, I'm about as worried about it as I amabout this kind of thing

Hmm....the difference is the Illuminati don't exist, but there are millions of Muslims out there who would like nothing more than to see Sharia law put into practice all over the world.

Mickeroo · 14-02-2009 02:20AM

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

Hmm....the difference is the Illuminati don't exist, but there are millions of Muslims out there who would like nothing more than to see Sharia law put into practice all over the world.

you really have a big problem with islam huh? Christian fundamentalists can sound just as dangerous(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism). I think religion is dangerous in general but I dont think it's a good idea to paint a whole race with the same brush,not everyone in islam is a potential suicide bomber you know, theres good people and theres bad people.

PDN · 14-02-2009 09:36AM

Mickeroo wrote: »

you really have a big problem with islam huh? Christian fundamentalists can sound just as dangerous(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism). I think religion is dangerous in general but I dont think it's a good idea to paint a whole race with the same brush,not everyone in islam is a potential suicide bomber you know, theres good people and theres bad people.

That's got to be the worst, and most inappropriate, wikipedia article I've ever seen cited on this board. But if you think that Ian Paisley, Padraic Pearse, and Bobby Sands are all examples of Christian fundamentalist terrorism then go ahead and argue your case.

Mickeroo · 14-02-2009 11:41AM

PDN wrote: »

That's got to be the worst, and most inappropriate, wikipedia article I've ever seen cited on this board. But if you think that Ian Paisley, Padraic Pearse, and Bobby Sands are all examples of Christian fundamentalist terrorism then go ahead and argue your case.

apologies, i was trying to make a point of how i think his fear of islam is irrational. I think the likes of Pearse were revolutionaries and their reasons weren't based on religion, to me the north was christians killing christians and irish killing irish and i think it was completely futile.

ChocolateSauce · 14-02-2009 01:10PM

Mickeroo wrote: »

you really have a big problem with islam huh? Christian fundamentalists can sound just as dangerous(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism). I think religion is dangerous in general but I dont think it's a good idea to paint a whole race with the same brush,not everyone in islam is a potential suicide bomber you know, theres good people and theres bad people.

Since when are Muslims a race? They're not, no more than Christians are a race or Buddhists are a race (the Jews are a little confusing (and unique) in this regard, but I'd call them a culture with a religion named after them; there are famous atheist Jews, but how many atheist Muslims or Christians?), and it's somewhat disturbing this concept of "Islamophobia", as though it's racist to criticise a religion or to criticise people for having a philphosy or worldview. I have no ethnic bias, I don't care about skin colour. A Muslim could be from Somalia, Arabia or New York. I don't have a problem with Christians as a people or Muslims as a people, I "attack the post not the poster". I would only attack individuals if those in question had done something wrong, like Bin Laden.

As for my feelings on Islam and Christianity, they're not equal, one is very much worse than the other. Christian fundamentalists can be just as dangerous, but generally speaking their not, and Muslim moderates are far less moderate than Christian ones, and there are a greater number of radical Muslims than Christian ones. You don't see Christians on the streets in Europe and the Americas demanding death to Gaza, or that we behead those who mock Jesus. I know this is largely cultural, as long ago Christianity was far worse than it is today and was once arguably the more barbaric religion, but what the bible teaches and what people follow has drifted so much that most people probably shouldn't call themselves Christians. Muslims on the whole have suck much more closely to their book, which is simpler, shorter, and with fewer internal contradictions.

I don't fear Islam at all, Mickeroo. Neither do I fear Christianity. What I fear is governments rolling back human rights to accommodate Islam; I fear western governments allowing aspects of Sharia law in our countries. I will criticise Islam because I feel it is a deeply negative force in this world, but what happens if my attacks on this idea become illegal, under the guise of "hate speech" or because I cause "offense"? If one is not allowed to criticise an intellectual position, one is not a free man, and freedom of speech means precisely the freedom to offend whomever I like.

Mickeroo · 14-02-2009 02:25PM

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

Since when are Muslims a race? They're not, no more than Christians are a race or Buddhists are a race (the Jews are a little confusing (and unique) in this regard, but I'd call them a culture with a religion named after them; there are famous atheist Jews, but how many atheist Muslims or Christians?), and it's somewhat disturbing this concept of "Islamophobia", as though it's racist to criticise a religion or to criticise people for having a philphosy or worldview. I have no ethnic bias, I don't care about skin colour. A Muslim could be from Somalia, Arabia or New York. I don't have a problem with Christians as a people or Muslims as a people, I "attack the post not the poster". I would only attack individuals if those in question had done something wrong, like Bin Laden.

As for my feelings on Islam and Christianity, they're not equal, one is very much worse than the other. Christian fundamentalists can be just as dangerous, but generally speaking their not, and Muslim moderates are far less moderate than Christian ones, and there are a greater number of radical Muslims than Christian ones. You don't see Christians on the streets in Europe and the Americas demanding death to Gaza, or that we behead those who mock Jesus. I know this is largely cultural, as long ago Christianity was far worse than it is today and was once arguably the more barbaric religion, but what the bible teaches and what people follow has drifted so much that most people probably shouldn't call themselves Christians. Muslims on the whole have suck much more closely to their book, which is simpler, shorter, and with fewer internal contradictions.

I don't fear Islam at all, Mickeroo. Neither do I fear Christianity. What I fear is governments rolling back human rights to accommodate Islam; I fear western governments allowing aspects of Sharia law in our countries. I will criticise Islam because I feel it is a deeply negative force in this world, but what happens if my attacks on this idea become illegal, under the guise of "hate speech" or because I cause "offense"? If one is not allowed to criticise an intellectual position, one is not a free man, and freedom of speech means precisely the freedom to offend whomever I like.

You make a lot of good points. I didn't mean to suggest you were racist,that was bad wording on my part. I agree that muslim extremists are worse than their christian counterparts, a lot worse, a good example would be what happened to Theo Van Gogh. Could you give me a link to something explaining Sharia law?

Nodin · 14-02-2009 03:14PM

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

Hmm....the difference is the Illuminati don't exist, but there are millions of Muslims out there who would like nothing more than to see Sharia law put into practice all over the world.

Theres probably a few million christians who'd like to put the world under the christian equivalent. Its not going to happen.

Fanny Cradock · 14-02-2009 03:15PM

Mohammed Fahmi Bouyeri is a sick and horribly unbalanced individual. In another world one could imagine any number of reasons other than Islam why this guy would feel the need to murder. So less to with Islam, and more to do with the man.

Nodin · 14-02-2009 03:20PM

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Mohammed Fahmi Bouyeri is a sick and horribly unbalanced individual. In another world one could imagine any number of reasons other than Islam why this guy would feel the need to murder. So less to with Islam, and more to do with the man.

I'm reminded of the attack on an english vicar a while back in church grounds. Much was made of the fact the young lads involved threw a good bit of anti-christian abuse at him, and it was portrayed as an anti-christian, muslim hate crime, particularily in the Mail, Telegraph etc. All avoided mention of the fact that the individuals involved were plastered drunk, and were hanging around a back way in the church boozing at the time.

Fanny Cradock · 14-02-2009 03:21PM

Nodin wrote: »

Theres a few million christians who'd like to put the world under the christian equivalent. Its not going to happen.

And? There is a horrid little thread brewing over in the A&A forum that is nothing more than intolerance wrapped up in a type of self-proclamed reason. I see no difference between somebody who wants to forcably impose religious beliefs and those who wish to forcibably destroy them. The world is full of fundamentalists.

Nodin · 14-02-2009 03:25PM

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

And? There is a horrid little thread brewing over in the A&A forum that is nothing more than intolerance wrapped up in a type of self-proclamed reason. .

I'm sure there is. Obviously my link to the atheist hivemind is down though, as I'll have to go and look it up.

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

I see no difference between somebody who wants to forcably impose religious beliefs and those who wish to forcibably destroy them. The world is full of fundamentalists.

I think I made my views quite clear on that kind of thing before, evidently to little effect, given the amount of tar being applied to me now, with much the same brush.

Fanny Cradock · 14-02-2009 03:29PM

Nodin wrote: »

I think I made my views quite clear on that kind of thing before, evidently to little effect, given the amount of tar being applied to me now, with much the same brush.

I was speaking in generalities, not commenting your specific beliefs (whatever they are). No tar is being applied to you.

ChocolateSauce · 14-02-2009 05:13PM

Nodin wrote: »

Theres probably a few million christians who'd like to put the world under the christian equivalent. Its not going to happen.

It already has. Thankfully that time ended long ago and there isn't a good chance of it returning. Western society grew out of Christendom.

You make a lot of good points. I didn't mean to suggest you were racist,that was bad wording on my part. I agree that muslim extremists are worse than their christian counterparts, a lot worse, a good example would be what happened to Theo Van Gogh. Could you give me a link to something explaining Sharia law?

Thats ok, I wasn't offended, thank you. The important thing to remember about Sharia law is that a lot of it makes sense (even people 1400 years ago had some sense), and only a minority of it is what I would call unacceptable. But, being the word of god, it is either all true or it isn't, so it cannot be cherry picked to just get the nice parts.

Not again...

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