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M9? - Is it a waste of money?

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Comments

  • #152
    invincibleirish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,219 ✭✭✭invincibleirish


    Bards wrote: »

    The Cork Political Lobby puts the rest of the country to shame

    :DLOL! coming from a Martin Cullen fan the ironing is delicious!


  • #153
    Bards
    Registered Users Posts: 2,687 ✭✭✭Bards


    invincibleirish wrote: »
    :DLOL! coming from a Martin Cullen fan the ironing is delicious!

    As i said before I have never said who I voted for - If you still havge to stoop to low blows then it is time to give up and go home


  • #154
    invincibleirish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,219 ✭✭✭invincibleirish


    Bards wrote: »
    As i said before I have never said who I voted for - If you still havge to stoop to low blows then it is time to give up and go home

    Well some quick googling of 'Bards' and 'FF' reveals a fabulous website called upthedeise.com, a poster there called Bards would'nt support a FG/LAB coaliton, doesnt like the Greens or SF and supported the Tories in 1992(?).

    Bards are you actually Martin Cullen?

    Back on topic


  • #155
    Calina
    Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Calina


    invincibleirish wrote: »
    :DLOL! coming from a Martin Cullen fan the ironing is delicious!

    Another comment like this and you will be taking a 4 week holiday from Commuting and Transport. I usually only give two weeks for bans so if you want to make the record, be my guest.

    If you cannot discuss the merits and demerits of a piece of concrete and tar macadam without resorting to political gibes like this you should not be here.

    This is the second time you have caught my attention in this way. If it is not the last, the next time will be. You have been told before not to bring up people's political viewpoints with respect to this thread . They are not relevant.

    Your choice. You want to continue this discussion you will shut up about other people's voting record. Once again, as this is a second warning will make it a four week long ban. You have no lifelines left on this subject. Your most recent post does not change this.


  • #156
    BluntGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    Bards wrote: »
    The Cork Political Lobby puts the rest of the country to shame

    You kinda ruined your points with this statement because you were arguing your case pretty well.
    Bards wrote: »
    Back on the M9. It is being built with mixture of EU & exchequer money so it can't be tolled aparantly :rolleyes:

    Where did you get this piece of information? Does the fact it's not PPP impede it from being tolled? I don't think it does. They could shove a toll on it and put the money into the maintanence of the road rather than to a PPP company. In fact, that is preferable IMO to paying money to a PPP company.


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  • #157
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    I drove the N/M9 today from the junction with the N10 to the junction with the M7.

    The N9 as far as Carlow seemed pretty poor to me, though not atrocious. Traffic was pretty light.

    The M9 Carlow Bypass is a lovely road, but I was the only vehicle on it heading northbound. I saw no car in front of me, at all. Any time I looked in my rear view mirror, the route was empty too.

    After Carlow the N9's standard is attrocious, and has no hard shoulder - until you get to a fairly lengthy, straight and broad stretch of bypass, which seemed to me very adequate. But when this ends, the poor quality section resumes, pretty much until the M7 junction. (Incidentally the M7 needs attention from that junction to Naas. The surface is wearing badly, and it needs to be relined.)

    Driving along the Carlow Bypass I was sure that it is indeed a white elephant. To not meet a single vehicle on the northbound carriageway was astounding.

    However, I am aware that it was Saturday, and that many Irish roads are very fickle regarding numbers using them at any one time - it tends to be all or nothing with a lot of routes: either crazily busy or deathly quiet.


  • #158
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,383 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Furet wrote: »
    I drove the N/M9 today from the junction with the N10 to the junction with the M7.

    The N9 as far as Carlow seemed pretty poor to me, though not atrocious. Traffic was pretty light.

    The M9 Carlow Bypass is a lovely road, but I was the only vehicle on it heading northbound. I saw no car in front of me, at all. Any time I looked in my rear view mirror, the route was empty too.

    After Carlow the N9's standard is attrocious, and has no hard shoulder - until you get to a fairly lengthy, straight and broad stretch of bypass, which seemed to me very adequate. But when this ends, the poor quality section resumes, pretty much until the M7 junction. (Incidentally the M7 needs attention from that junction to Naas. The surface is wearing badly, and it needs to be relined.)

    Driving along the Carlow Bypass I was sure that it is indeed a white elephant. To not meet a single vehicle on the northbound carriageway was astounding.

    However, I am aware that it was Saturday, and that many Irish roads are very fickle regarding numbers using them at any one time - it tends to be all or nothing with a lot of routes: either crazily busy or deathly quiet.

    I drive it almost everyday at rush hour(s). At either side I am invariably held up in a convey whether it caused by a truck or an L driver. Happens me all the time on the N9, there is a constant traffic stream. You must have just caught a freak day. I don't know what the long suffering residents of Carlow town would make of your "white elephant" comment ;).
    Have a look at the NRA traffic figures at Leighlinbridge. They compare with similar stretches of the N7/8.


  • #159
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    mfitzy wrote: »
    You must have just caught a freak day. I don't know what the long suffering residents of Carlow town would make of your "white elephant" comment ;).
    Have a look at the NRA traffic figures at Leighlinbridge. They compare with similar stretches of the N7/8.

    In fairness, I use the phrase 'white elephant' only because other posters here have already done so, and because I'd never travelled the N9 before - so, it was an opinion-forming experience for me. I am more than willing to accept your comments, however - hence my final sentence. I can't speak with much authority because I didn't travel the N9 on a weekday, as you do. Certainly the M8 wasn't busy today either. (I went for a big drive today: N24 from Cahir to Clonmel, N76 from there to Kilkenny, N10 to N9 junction, N9/M9 to M7, M7 to Naas, Nass to Portlaoise, and from there back to Cork via the N/M8.)

    But of all the interurbans, this is certainly the most suspect. I believe figures dip lower along this route than they do on any other interurban. And already, I suspect, the M8 has robbed some of the N9's numbers: people from Clonmel traditionally took the N76/N10/N9 to Dublin, but they'd want to be cracked to do that now; the 8 from Cahir is a much better choice as things stand.


  • #160
    Typewriter
    Registered Users Posts: 577 ✭✭✭Typewriter


    It is important to note that vast majority of Waterford - Dublin traffic travels via New Ross and the N11 at the moment (as the N9 is a pile of crap and takes longer). This will change once the M9 is open.


  • #161
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,383 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    green_jesus wrote: »
    It is important to note that vast majority of Waterford - Dublin traffic travels via New Ross and the N11 at the moment (as the N9 is a pile of crap and takes longer). This will change once the M9 is open.

    Not true. I remember reading some survey done before the M9 was chosen and I though something like over 75 % of motorists use the N9/10/78 or acombination of all. I could be wrong though.


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  • #162
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,383 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Furet wrote: »

    But of all the interurbans, this is certainly the most suspect. I believe figures dip lower along this route than they do on any other interurban. And already, I suspect, the M8 has robbed some of the N9's numbers: people from Clonmel traditionally took the N76/N10/N9 to Dublin, but they'd want to be cracked to do that now; the 8 from Cahir is a much better choice as things stand.

    Take your point re Clonmel but I have a feeling they will return to the M9 when it's completed; they will be able to link the M9 south of Kilkenny (toll free bare in mind). It is surely the shortest distance wise to Clonmel as well.


  • #163
    Typewriter
    Registered Users Posts: 577 ✭✭✭Typewriter


    I live in Waterford and no one I know takes the N9. Of coarse everyone I don't know could. ;) I doubt that tho, the N9 is used mainly by KK and CW traffic.


  • #164
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,383 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    green_jesus wrote: »
    I live in Waterford and no one I know takes the N9. Of coarse everyone I don't know could. ;) I doubt that tho, the N9 is used mainly by KK and CW traffic.

    I see a lot of W and WD regs on it so somebody must be! Of course the N11/N25 was the original Waterford-Dublin road far as I'm aware but clearly only of use solely as link to the east coast.


  • #165
    BluntGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    mfitzy wrote: »
    Take your point re Clonmel but I have a feeling they will return to the M9 when it's completed; they will be able to link the M9 south of Kilkenny (toll free bare in mind). It is surely the shortest distance wise to Clonmel as well.

    Perhaps. But in terms of distance from a motorway, the M8 is much more accessible from Clonmel. It does however add on a few extra minutes to the journey. These minutes however, are compensated for by the quality of the motorway over the road from Clonmel to Kilkenny.

    However, as you say, when the M9 is finished, it'll probably be desirable to take the traditional route again, as it will be toll free.

    As for the Carlow Bypass, looking a lot nicer I must say. I remember patches of it looking pretty barren and sunburnt when it opened and it wasn't a pleasant experience. Certainly things have improved.

    Also with regards to the M9, its southern MSA I have no issues with, a good location approximately half-way along the route. But the northern one, it's so close to the M7 junction that it feels pointless not have it on the M7 itself. If they were to put it on the M7, they would

    (i) Be serving a LOT more traffic (Dublin-Limerick/Cork as well as -Waterford).

    (ii) Breaking the 90 km gap between Dublin and the first proposed M7 Service Station.

    (iii) Offering us better value for money by essentially building one service area for three motorways.

    So what do you think?


  • #166
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    mfitzy wrote: »
    Take your point re Clonmel but I have a feeling they will return to the M9 when it's completed; they will be able to link the M9 south of Kilkenny (toll free bare in mind). It is surely the shortest distance wise to Clonmel as well.

    I was thinking about this today. The problem is the road between Clonmel and Kilkenny, the N76. It is awful.
    If two cars left the centre of Clonmel at the same time, both bound for Dublin, one going via Kilkenny, the other via the M8 at Cahir, by the time the M9-bound car actually arrived at the M9, I'd say the car that had taken the M8 would be only a little more than ten minutes away from the Portlaoise interchange.

    The M8 route would be the longer, for sure. But it would be a consistently better route safety- and efficiency-wise. The N76 is a horrible, horrible stretch. It should be redesignated an R road in my opinion.

    In any case, traffic from Clonmel isn't the be all and end all, is it? ;)

    I was just thinking about it today when I passed through the town on the way to Kilkenny. You could be right.

    It would be fun to do a Top Gear type challenge to see who's right though! Maybe in 2010...


  • #167
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,383 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Yes, totally agree, should be at the M7/9 junction for sure. Makes sense to kill two birds with one stone. And sort out the junction itself allowing you to turn right onto the M7 and vice versa. Probably wishful thinking I guess..


  • #168
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,383 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Furet wrote: »
    I was thinking about this today. The problem is the road between Clonmel and Kilkenny, the N76. It is awful.
    If two cars left the centre of Clonmel at the same time, both bound for Dublin, one going via Kilkenny, the other via the M8 at Cahir, by the time the M9-bound car actually arrived at the M9, I'd say the car that had taken the M8 would be only a little more than ten minutes away from the Portlaoise interchange.

    The M8 route would be the longer, for sure. But it would be a consistently better route safety- and efficiency-wise. The N76 is a horrible, horrible stretch. It should be redesignated an R road in my opinion.

    Hey you're too used to your good roads over there in Tipp and Cork ;).
    We consider the N76 a relatively "good" road still in Kilkenny :D


  • #169
    Bards
    Registered Users Posts: 2,687 ✭✭✭Bards


    The M9 is the shortes of all the MIU's yet will have time savings of over 55 mins to Kilcullen - just goes to show you how bad the N9 currently is


  • #170
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    Furet wrote: »
    I was thinking about this today. The problem is the road between Clonmel and Kilkenny, the N76. It is awful.
    If two cars left the centre of Clonmel at the same time, both bound for Dublin, one going via Kilkenny, the other via the M8 at Cahir, by the time the M9-bound car actually arrived at the M9, I'd say the car that had taken the M8 would be only a little more than ten minutes away from the Portlaoise interchange.

    The M8 route would be the longer, for sure. But it would be a consistently better route safety- and efficiency-wise. The N76 is a horrible, horrible stretch. It should be redesignated an R road in my opinion.

    In any case, traffic from Clonmel isn't the be all and end all, is it? ;)

    I was just thinking about it today when I passed through the town on the way to Kilkenny. You could be right.

    It would be fun to do a Top Gear type challenge to see who's right though! Maybe in 2010...

    That's interesting about the N76, I have only been on that road, when I was a child, always got a haunting feeling from this road. It's a very old road, as it used to be the old Cork to Dublin road. Some sections I remeber were quite good especially around Callan. It's funny how it's a classed a R road, when it used to be the old T6. and part of the N24 from Cahir to Clonmel was it too.


  • #171
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    mysterious wrote: »
    That's interesting about the N76, I have only been on that road, when I was a child, always got a haunting feeling from this road. It's a very old road, as it used to be the old Cork to Dublin road. Some sections I remeber were quite good especially around Callan. It's funny how it's a classed a R road, when it used to be the old T6. and part of the N24 from Cahir to Clonmel was it too.

    Yes, I was thinking how it used to be the T6 when I was on it today, and of all the old journeys it must have seen. It's still an N road (76) and has no hard shoulder at all, except for very short sections.

    N8, N24, N76, N78, N9 used to be the T6 I think.


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