Do you go to the pub or places with alcohol

Well, I have never drank, but I have no issues with going to the pub, with friends. Its one of the main ways people socialize in Ireland, so its sorta hard to avoid.

mehfesto2 wrote: »

Can I ask why it is not peritted to drink alcohol?

I understand that Buddhists do not drink because they wish to keep a 'clear mind and never lose control', to put in simple words. Is this similar to the Islam view on the subject at all?

It's ironic that our word "alcohol" is derived from the arabic "al-koh'l", which literally refers to the black powder stibium that was used as a form of eye-shadow and more metaphorically for fermented drinks that, taken to excess, left the drinker's eyes looking as if they had been using too much koh'l.

Apparently, in early 7th century Arabia, heavy drinking was common, and was associated with the same sorts of problems (including violent behaviour both outside and inside the home) as heavy drinking is still connected with.

The first verse (chronologically in terms of when it was revealed) in the Qur'an about alcohol is in Surah An-Nahl 16:67 (quoted from Muhammad Asad's translation):

And [We grant you nourishment] from the fruit of date-palms and vines: from it you derive intoxicants as well as wholesome sustenance - in this, behold, there is a message indeed for people who use their reason!

In the context of the previous verses, this could be understood as relating to God's providence (the previous verses discuss water and milk), but there is perhaps a hint that not everything that comes from nature is necessarily desirable. Certainly it seems that some of the early Muslims saw this verse as at least raising doubts about the desirability of alcoholic drinks.

The next verse (in chronological terms) to be revealed was in Surah Al-Baqarah 2:219:

They will ask thee [i.e., the Prophet Muhammad] about intoxicants and games of chance. Say: "In both there is great evil as well as some benefit for man; but the evil which they cause is greater than the benefit which they bring."

The word used for intoxicant is khamr, which strictly means fermented date juice, but is sometimes translated more generally as "wine", and extended to other alcoholic drinks. Indeed, by the time of the final revelation, which many scholars consider has abrogated or cancelled the previous two verses, khamr is taken to apply to any substance that has the effect of dulling the intellect, including drugs.

The final verse to be revealed occurs in Surah Al-Maa'idah 5:90-91:

O you who have attained to faith! Intoxicants, and games of chance, and idolatrous practices [lit. "stones"], and the divining of the future [lit. "divining-arrows"] are but a loathsome evil of Satan's doing: shun it, then, so that you might attain to a happy state! By means of intoxicants and games of chance Satan seeks only to sow enmity and hatred among you, and to turn you away from the remembrance of God and from prayer. Will you not, then, desist?

So there is a clear Qur'anic prohibition on consuming alcohol, and this extends to the production and selling of alcohol. Shari'ah-compliant investment funds normally refuse to invest in companies in the drinks industry, but in practice they have to make compromises where businesses are involved in selling or supplying alcoholic drinks as part of their main activities (for example, an airline that serves drinks as part of in-flight meals).

As is normally the case, of course, practice in predominantly Muslim countries doesn't always live up to theory - I remember reading about an American who was worried that he was becoming an alcoholic, so he moved to Saudi Arabia in the expectation that this would be about the last place in the world where alcohol was available, only to find that he was actually drinking more there than back in the States.

Also, although many scholars consider that the prohibition of alcohol applies to other drugs, some scholars disagree, and would read the verses more literally. So drugs such as hashish were considered acceptable by some even though alcohol would be avoided.

To sum up, alcohol is clearly banned by the Qur'an. This ban is justified in verse 5:91, quoted above, because of the tendency of drinking to lead to conflict and take people away from God.

tej wrote: »

Is music also prohibited in Islam?

There was a long discussion of this before I joined this forum, which can be linked to here.

The_new_mr, one of the moderators on this forum, recently provided a summary of the position, which I take the liberty of quoting below:

There are three main opinions in Islam. One is that music is completely forbidden. Another is that some kinds of music (drums) and singing are okay and the third is that all kinds of music are okay. In the second and third opinions, the content of the music/singing has the potential to be forbidden or permissable so its content is important.

I'm of the third opinion and believe that any kind of instrument is okay just as long as the content is okay as well.

And God knows best.

This quote comes from a more recent thread on Music and Islam in this forum. In this thread, I refer to a long statement by one of the leading living scholars of Islam, Shaykh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, which can be found here. This basically supports The_new_mr's third opinion. The Shaykh notes in particular:

Singing should not be accompanied with something that is prohibited such as alcohol, nakedness, mixing of men with women that is common in pubs and nightclubs, etc.

So he probably wouldn't approve of Muslims going to the pub.

mehfesto2 wrote: »

Thank you Hizivman.
I'm enjoying reading this forum. I'm learning lots - mostly thanks to yourself!

As I've said before on this forum, I'm not a Muslim myself, but I've been a student of Islam for several years since I first came into close contact with some Muslims at work. I have some Muslim colleagues and acquaintances, and have learnt a lot from them.

mehfesto2 wrote: »

You said the practice doesn't always live up to the theory (which could be said about any religion), and I would imagine there are some Muslims who do not follow the word as well as they should, but for the firm believers, how do they enjoy themslves?

I don't mean to sound like an alcoholic (I don't even drink myself), but in Ireland - and other Western cultures, a popular way of spending a day is in a pub, drinking, playing pool, listening to music etc. But if many of these are frowned upon, what are common activities of entertainment in Islam?

Thanks again!

The Muslims that I know tend to put more emphasis on their family life, but they do things like playing and watching sports, going to the cinema, eating out, listening to music, reading, watching TV - they'll even go to the pub and drink soft drinks. Possibly, the Muslims I know are not typical, and I tend to meet Muslim men more than women, but I get the impression that they don't really think a lot about the more complex issues of Islam, just as most Christians don't get into deep thoughts about Christian theology.

Four-Too wrote: »

It is not permitted to drink alcohol because it is said one becomes "blind" under the influence of alcohol, and does not recognise that such a person is my daughter, my sister, my mother etc. In the past, men have raped their daughters under the influence of alcohol - that is why it is so sinful.

The fact of the matter is that 99% of irish people drink alcohol in various amount . I have never heard any of them not recognising their mother, sisters, or doughters. In contrast, there are few people who have raped their doughters over years, definitely not under the influence of alcohol all the time.

Mark Hamill wrote: »

You could say the same thing about eating though - once someone over indulges in it enough, many lives can be harmed. There are plenty of people who drink without harming themselves or others, the bad points only outweigh the benefits if you drink badly.

Yes but eating is necessary. Alcohol is not. We try and avoid temptation where possible.

oceanclub wrote: »

It seems odd that smoking isn't banned in that case as the same reasoning applies.

P.

Smoking at the time would not have been as prevalent as it is now. Also I would argue that its effects are (mainly) restricted to the person doing the smoking. As a result its not as 'bad' as alcohol which can affect those around you within a few hours.

My non-expert opinion on the matter.

Jaafa wrote: »

Smoking at the time would not have been as prevalent as it is now.

So the quran just didn't foresee the present, where it has become prevelent?

Jaafa wrote: »

Also I would argue that its effects are (mainly) restricted to the person doing the smoking.

Second hand smoking?

Jaafa wrote: »

As a result its not as 'bad' as alcohol which can affect those around you within a few hours.

Only if you partake in it too much. Dont imbibe too much, and you usually wont have problems.

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Eating is only necessary to much smaller extent to what we generally do. Especially nowadays, when we get much of our nutritional requirements in pill form, most of our eating is superfluous to requirements. No one needs to eat a starter or a dessert.

In the Qur'an, Surah al-'A'raf 7:31 has been translated by Muhammad Asad as:

"O Children of Adam! Beautify yourselves for every act of worship, and eat and drink, but so not waste: verily, He does not love the wasteful!"

Muhammad is reported (hadith in Al-Tirmidhi and Ibn Majah) to have said:

"Nothing is worse than a person who fills his stomach. It should be enough for the son of Adam to have a few bites to satisfy his hunger. If he wishes more, it should be: One-third for his food, one-third for his liquids, and one-third for his breath."

So eating and drinking to excess is strongly disliked within Islam.

irishconvert wrote: »

The poster you are replying to is a bit over the top, but it is true that alcohol causes major harm in Irish society. From causing people to act in a destructive way which is totally out of character, to tearing families apart, the bad points far outweigh the benefits. Try spending the entire night sober walking around Temple Bar and you will see the harm is causes. Go along to an AA meeting and see how many lives are destroyed.

It seems that Surah Al-Maa'idah 5:90-91 only makes sense if it is referring to a culture or society as a whole. I have several Muslim friends who drink, and they never drink to excess. Enmity and hatred is never sown.

As you say above, alcohol causes harm in Irish society because many people abuse it. When it is drunk by responsible individuals, however, it is perfectly harmless.

The vast majority of people who choose to drink accept all of the consequences of said drinking and you shouldn't judge them for it.

While I agree with irishconvert that alcohol does cause damage, the number of associated deaths pale into comparison with smoking - 200 vs 7,000. *

* http://alcoholireland.ie/?page_id=110 and http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=5106

P.