DEAP/BER Issues (Merged)

fitz1985 · 17-10-2007 3:34am #1

The following thread contains information and posts merged from a number of different sources and posts. The merged posts are automtically sorted in chronological order, therefore some posts may seam out of place. Apologies for any confusion as it can't be avoided

BER ISSUES

hey everyone just curious if there is many people out there that are qualified in doing ber cert's yet. i have been given the post qualification for my cert as it cant offically be put through the government till oct(this month) but i am am to do the certs with the downloaded program from the site but i still have to get aqualified architect to sign off on what i do s long as he/she seem happy enough with the work i have done. and as for being in running with building reg's what i have is qualified so it should go through. just curious if anyone out there is in the same situation as me or have actually got the full cert and are using the program efficently and effectly with the councils.

any feed back would be more then greatful.

thankfully,

dave.

Mellor · 25-01-2008 1:20pm

It is predicted that more an more houses that applied for planning after 1st Jan 2007 will be approaching completion soon.
As you may be aware, these houses will require a BER assessment and Cert.
Hopefully this thread will provide all the required info regarding;

Which buildings require BER Certs
When are BER Certs required
What is required,
Who can carry out the assessment

Basic info
The first point of call is "Sustainable Energy Ireland" (SEI). Their website has a list of approved assessors, courses and FAQs aimed at the householder.
SEI's page on BER

Various BER FAQs

The topic has been discussed in various threads, in order to prevent doubling up of info and/or two parallel discussions taking place worthwile posts on the subject of BER and DEAP will be moved here shortly..

Mellor · 25-01-2008 1:27pm

Which houses require BER certs?

New dwellings: A BER Cert is required in houses for which planning permission was applied for on or after 1st January 2007.
Transitional BER exemptions will apply to new dwellings for which planning permission is applied on or before 31st December 2006, where the new dwellings involved are substantially completed on or before 30th June 2008.

Existing Buildings (dwellings and other buildings) when offered for sale or letting will require a BER Cert from the 1st January 2009.

muffler · 25-01-2008 1:32pm

Nice one. Well done Mellor.

Mellor · 25-01-2008 1:38pm

Exempt buildings

For information purposes. In general, this won't apply to the majority of dwellings.

The following buildings are exempt from BER cert requirement;

National monuments*;
Protected structures*;
Places of worship or buildings used for the religious activities of any religion;
Certain temporary buildings;
Non-residential industrial or agricultural buildings with a low installed heating capacity (less than 10 W/m2);
Stand alone buildings with a small useful floor area (less than 50m2).

*National monuments are defined by the national monument act 1930-2004, and Protected structures are listed in each Local authority's development plan

sinnerboy · 25-01-2008 6:12pm

Point to note -

A house , even if permission was applied for before 31 Dec 2006 but if not substantially completed by 30 June 2008 ( i.e this summer ) will require a BER cert before it is occupied . This may apply to more than a few .

holdfast · 28-01-2008 10:50pm

Did anyone hear when the course for the existing houses will be ready ??

Also anyone else come across the case where the SEI have employed a independent assesors to check the ratings in the local area ?? i heard it from a fellow engineer.

sydthebeat · 29-01-2008 1:02pm

According to the construct ireland magazine this month, every assessment being submitted is being audited currently. This situation cant continue the more submission are made, but its great to know the SEI are serious about policing it!!!

Brando_ie · 30-01-2008 2:14pm

Mellor wrote: »

Which houses require BER certs?

New dwellings: A BER Cert is required in houses for which planning permission was applied for on or after 1st January 2007.
Transitional BER exemptions will apply to new dwellings for which planning permission is applied on or before 31st December 2006, where the new dwellings involved are substantially completed on or before 30th June 2008.

Existing Buildings (dwellings and other buildings) when offered for sale or letting will require a BER Cert from the 1st January 2009.

On that point. For example, lets say a house which was constructed in 2005 and based on a permission granted say 2003 is offered up for sale in the middle of 2009 or later, will it require a BER cert?? and if so, how would you retrofit such a house (i.e at least two U-Value regulation upgrades later?). Or does reading the last point mean, any houses built or applied for from 2008 will require a cert after 2009?? Perhaps you can expand on it?

davidoco · 30-01-2008 2:21pm

Brando_ie wrote: »

On that point. For example, lets say a house which was constructed in 2005 and based on a permission granted say 2003 is offered up for sale in the middle of 2009 or later, will it require a BER cert?? and if so, how would you retrofit such a house (i.e at least two U-Value regulation upgrades later?). Or does reading the last point mean, any houses built or applied for from 2008 will require a cert after 2009?? Perhaps you can expand on it?

My understanding is that you can't fail a BER test, just get a bad reading. Your house would (should) have been constructed to the building regs at the time. Getting a G on the test would make a purchaser look twice.

Brando_ie · 30-01-2008 2:40pm

davidoco wrote: »

My understanding is that you can't fail a BER test, just get a bad reading. Your house would (should) have been constructed to the building regs at the time. Getting a G on the test would make a purchaser look twice.

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense.

Mellor · 30-01-2008 4:48pm

All house regardless of when they were built will need a cert once on the markey after from 2009 onwards, but they don't have to meet any min standards.

holdfast · 01-02-2008 10:30am

I have been searching the net lately seeing what people are charging for an BER assessment. I have notice there are "McDonalds" type companies selling fast food or should fast rating service. They get as many assessors to buy into the idea or train Joe soap and they become a nation wide company. It seems the guys are calling themselves guru’s when they have a forum they can log on to the site and ask questions of the one guy probably who understands anything about energy. I looked at one page here was a guy who was accountant and part time farmer opening an office. Mad really I love the BER scheme it, it is doing what the government wants to leave you bitter and twisted.

sydthebeat · 01-02-2008 12:19pm

As a Technician i am trying to market myself separate to these 'Mc Donalds' type BER assessors...(love the analogy BTW)...

I have been quoted as little as 275 yo yos (including the €50 sei fee for a prov and final) for a 2500 dormer...... i will not be competing with this. I hope to be able to use my construction knowledge (or lack of

..) to aid the client get better performance... above and beyond the generic advisory report available on the SEI website......

alas i feel i wont get much work if my quotes are 2-3 times the Mikey D version.

topcatcbr · 02-02-2008 8:13pm

Hi syd i have been watching this and the many other discussions on this topic with interest i am also an architectural technition & recently completed the ber assessors course. i think that €275 would be appropriate for a 3 bed semi and about €400 for 2500ft dormer is appropriate. i wonder is there many people at the moment making any money at it yet. i cannot see any way of enforcing this.

sydthebeat · 02-02-2008 8:32pm

275..... minus 50 for SEi = 200
200 might be acceptable for a housing scheme with generic specifications, if you are doing batches of 5-10 a time.

400 for a one off dormer house is too small, in my opinion, to do the job properly.

ruskin · 02-02-2008 8:47pm

hello,

ive read conflicting reports about what is actually needed to become a fully registered ber assessor on the internet. Basically my question is, what MUST one have to do this? SEI mention that professional indemnity unsurance is not specifically required, while other areas state that PI and public liability insurance is needed, as well as a garda clearance (of course along with completing the course and registering with SEI). Is any insurance needed? Im a 23 year old engineer and am greatly interested in the BER system, just wondering what would it cost me to become a BER assessor
thanks

Mellor · 02-02-2008 8:53pm

Im not actually sure if PI is legally needed.
But you would be foolish to even consider work without it

topcatcbr · 02-02-2008 9:31pm

Hi Fitz im in the same situation as you should get cert this month

sinnerboy · 02-02-2008 9:44pm

completed the course recently , expect to be registered in March . according to my tutor , 750 people have passed the course , 250 have registered .

be clear the cert you produce is yours and yours alone - no one should be checking it as you describe - you will have to "stand over it " yourself at all times

sinnerboy · 02-02-2008 9:50pm

course i did cost €2k .

you pay a registration fee each year - €1k for first year €500 each year after that

each lable issued costs ( you ) €25.00

I have not looked into it yet except to note that "flyers" attached to the rear of my course notes indicate an annual permium of €500 . I expect that the more certs you issue the more the premium will cost you .

As Mellor says don't even think about not having PI ..............

ruskin · 03-02-2008 11:52am

Im not suggesting not complying with what is asked of me in any way, but aside from the course cost which costs me:

Course €1800
SEI registration €1000, €500 a year thereafter

what sort of costs would PI insurance set me back? Excuse my ignorance of this, its just I have been working in a practice as an engineer for a year, where issues such as PI insurance never bothered me

sydthebeat · 03-02-2008 4:30pm

a friend of mine got quoted €500 for €250,000 PI insurance...

its a question of how much insurance you need to be covered by....

Mellor · 03-02-2008 5:53pm

I have no idea what kind of PI you would be talking of.
Should it be the max value (total) of a house,
or the max liability?

corboy · 04-02-2008 4:01pm

Hi all,
We have just had an NEA report done on our house design, it proposes a lot of thing but 1 of which is to install windows with a U value of no more than 1.2, this is including both the glass and the frame together. Has anybody come across some they could reccomend as I am struggling to find any?

Cheers

sydthebeat · 04-02-2008 4:28pm

nordan do a double glazed 1.2 window...
they also do a 0.7 u value triple glazed.

i have nothing to do with this company.
http://www.nordan.ie/html/contact_details.html

ps.. whats an NEA report?

corboy · 04-02-2008 4:40pm

National Energy Accessor

If you give them a copy of your plans, they list out what you should be using based on the design to improve your energy rating, from insulation types to solar panels or undefloor heating. Its pretty good, helps in the decision making process.

We arent too keen to go tripple glazing because from what we were told we wouldnt get that much benefit from it. We are rural so noise isnt an issue and supposedly the irish climate doesnt have the extremes to require triple galzing

I'll take a look at NorDan,

thanks sydthebeat

smashey · 04-02-2008 4:44pm

I'm merging this with the BER thread as NEA are BER assessors.

Mellor · 04-02-2008 4:58pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

275..... minus 50 for SEi = 200
200 might be acceptable for a housing scheme with generic specifications, if you are doing batches of 5-10 a time.

400 for a one off dormer house is too small, in my opinion, to do the job properly.

How long (hours work) would you expect to spend on a semi to carry out an assessment. Say for new build and existing.

sydthebeat · 04-02-2008 5:27pm

Mellor wrote: »

How long (hours work) would you expect to spend on a semi to carry out an assessment. Say for new build and existing.

if you are doing semis (same house types) in batches its easy.. basically when you do the first you have 90% of the work done for all the others..youve already worked out u values, areas of floor, wall and ceiling types, heating systems and controls etc..... all that changes is window orientation, sheltering etc.

However on one offs, you could be talking about 2 different floor types... maybe 2-3 wall types and usually 3-4 roof types (dormers, storey and a half etc)... therefore although the floor area might only be double, the work involved in a one off could be triple or quadruple...... to do it properly that is.....plus theres a lot more scope in an advisory report in a one off than a scheme... typically developers would want a quick fix solution as all they want to do is sell... clients of one offs will be living in them and paying the heating bills.... thats why i will be trying to market myself in this catagory.

cwboy · 04-02-2008 8:00pm

Now that new builds have to have a BER would you recommend going that little extra and getting the assesment from the plans before I build to aid decision making? How much extra roughly would you be looking at over just the cert?

DEAP/BER Issues (Merged)

Comments