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Poor Road Signage Pictures

  • 14-01-2006 10:02pm
    #1
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Hi all, some of the members of SABRE, including myself are trying to collate images of rubbish road signage to petition the NRA and local authorities into some sort of coherent action plan to standardise design and installation (and bloody maintenance!) of road traffic signs in the republic. We'd appreciate it immensely if you could take the time to take reasonable resolution pics of poor signage in your area, indicating the exact location of it and what you feel is wrong with it in your post. Try to keep them to 100kB or so. In a couple of weeks a proper website will be set up AFAIK. Will keep you posted in this thread. Ideally we should have a system similar to best practice in the UK on all our roads (keeping our own yellow diamond signs because they are simply easier to see than the red triangles, but vastly improving some of the pictograms!), particularly improving our diabolical directional signage which s also impacting negatively on our tourism sector.

    This may seem pedantic but every other northern European country takes standardised, predictable road signage for granted. We should too.
    Tagged:


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Comments

  • #2
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    To start the ball rolling, I've attached some images highlighting incorrect, poorly designed and damaged and uncared for signage.

    The direction signage illustrates clearly why finger posts should get the boot immediately and be replaced by fixed panel direction signage, which is virtually impervious to tampering by kids etc. Also note that this ecclectic bunch of signs are almost the only direction signs present at what is a 4 way crossroads on a very busy regional road linking Lucan-Blanchardstown-St. Margarets. (another panel exists on the approach from one of the MINOR roads! but no other signage at the junction itself, so traffic approaching from the north (yes it's a virtual dead end but that's not the point) has NO directional signage at all.

    The photograph is taken looking north from the canal bridge in the attached aerial image.


  • #3
    subway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,131 ✭✭✭subway


    how about posting an overview of the jucntions in question from googlempas or myhome.ie?
    might make it a bit easier to understand what needs to be done at the junction.

    i can think of a few,
    ill try to get some pics over the next few days.


  • #4
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    The roundabout and bus lane signage illustrates clearly that some council staff simply don't know the legal meaning of signs and can merrily erect the wrong sign and walk away.

    Note the sign on the roandabout should be a "turn left" arrow (either white on blue or black on white in a red circle), not a "keep left" sign as has been erected. previously at this locaton, the council had white on blue "keep left" signs here and when I complained, they put the old irish "keep left" signs up instead. It is clear that the staff don't know the legal meaning of either sign, or indeed that legally traffic must TURN LEFT as it enters a roundabout.

    The Bus lane signs are really odd. The one nearest the camera is 100% correct as a bus lane is indeed just about to begin on the nearside. The one behind it is completely wrong-it means a with-flow bus lane is in force on the offside! That means that legally traffic can drive in either lane and not be prosecuted as the sign conficts with the road markings. In combination with the near sign, this pair mean the bus lane has magically switched to the other side of the thick white line in the space of 15 feet!:eek:


  • #5
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    subway wrote:
    how about posting an overview of the jucntions in question from googlempas or myhome.ie?
    might make it a bit easier to understand what needs to be done at the junction.

    i can think of a few,
    ill try to get some pics over the next few days.
    Excellent idea subway. I had done this on SABRE but didn't want to be too demanding of folks here! If people want to do that, It's great.


  • #6
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    The Warning signs illustrate that councils erect signage that is too easily damaged and interfered with, often being twisted right around. Note also that the attached warning sign alludes to a junction that is a 4 way crossroads but only indicates one road off the priority road. It is incredibly poor, especially considering that the sign they should have used ( a simple crossroads sign but with the left and bottom arms thickened to indicate the priority road runs around to the left as the driver approaches). The twisted right around sign in question is intended to warn drivers approaching from the east in the attached aerial shot. The junction in question is at Clonsilla Station. The priority road runs from the south, over the level crossing and canal bridge, then heads east.

    The other twisted sign is only warning of the ACTUAL LEVEL CROSSING ITSELF, so obviously it's very important to make sure the pole it attaches to is well clear of traffic that could possibly twist it. Note the idiotic location the council chose-they could have easily mounted it to the inside of that retaining wall and the sign would have been safe, but no. :(


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  • #7
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    The one coming onto Cobh island is a joke... Ill see if I can get a pic of it soon, but its bloody dangerous to stop a car there.


  • #8
    Andrew Duffy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 540 ✭✭✭Andrew Duffy


    I don't have a picture unfortunately, but the junction joining the N4 westbound west of Lucan is incorrectly signed. This is a left-on, left-off junction and the approach has a correct Irish turn left sign. The central reservation barrier carries a european turn left sign and a full access dual-carriageway t-junction warning sign (i.e., the line for the side road goes across the reservation, where in actuality there is a six foot wide thirty foot drop).

    Here's the junction:
    http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=lucan&ll=53.355271,-6.46127&spn=0.004476,0.009291


  • #9
    daymobrew
    Registered Users Posts: 6,484 ✭✭✭daymobrew


    murphaph wrote:
    The Warning signs illustrate that councils erect signage that is too easily damaged and interfered with, often being twisted right around.
    Down in Riverwood I've gotten the wrench out and fixed a few road signs that have been twisted, mostly by the wind.
    If Fingal County Council are slow to fix these, it might be quicker to do it yourself. You will get suspicious looks.
    I realise that you want to fix the root cause.


  • #10
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    daymobrew wrote:
    Down in Riverwood I've gotten the wrench out and fixed a few road signs that have been twisted, mostly by the wind.
    If Fingal County Council are slow to fix these, it might be quicker to do it yourself. You will get suspicious looks.
    I realise that you want to fix the root cause.
    Fair play to you Damien but I'm not gonna go down that route personally. As you say, the root cause needs to be addressed. I see the contractors digging up the roundabout traffic islands at the Ongar end of the new distributor road. I assume they are installing the poles for directional signage-I mean, could they not anticipate the need for these poles when they intitially poured the damn concrete to form the island.

    The twisted signage is only symptomatic of the real problem-a complete lack of interest by our local authorities in doing anything properly. The idiots have to start by adding a screw through the bracket and into the pole to stop wind/kids from mollesting signage. The standard bracket can be seen in the attached images. Clearly a ridiculous design for a street sign.


  • #11
    Charles Darwin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 45 ✭Charles Darwin


    I can't contribute much to this as I don't have a digital camera but just reading it reminded me of a company I came across in the course of some recent research. Maybe their products might be of use to our local authorities, if they're not already using them? http://www.poletech.co.uk/homepage.html


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  • #12
    Maskhadov
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭Maskhadov


    I heard the government signed a €60 million contract a few weeks back for new signs. They said they would be of a new design.

    **edit.. some of those signs are funny :D


  • #13
    BrianD3
    Registered Users Posts: 8,268 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    I don't have any pics but at the main roundabout in Cavan town the direction signs are placed in such a way that they block drivers vision. When you approach the roundabout from certain directions you end up coming to a near stop as you peer around the signs to see if there is traffic on the roundabout that you need to yield to. Lorry drivers have no problems as they can look straught over the signs :) Seems like a silly design anyway.

    My owns pet hate is signs at roadworks. As we all know, signs are often non- standard, inconsistent, illogical, illegible, dirty, missing, blown over, left up months (or sometimes years) after works have finished etc.


  • #14
    Andrew Duffy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 540 ✭✭✭Andrew Duffy


    BrianD3's message reminded me - the N2 through Castleblaney is poorly signed. The road turns left then right though the town, and until recently neither turn was adequately signed. Now the left turn is signed in advance, although trucks can still obscure the sign. The right turn, however, is at a small roundabout and has no advance signage, just a low level confirmation sign at the exit.


  • #15
    daymobrew
    Registered Users Posts: 6,484 ✭✭✭daymobrew


    murphaph wrote:
    The idiots have to start by adding a screw through the bracket and into the pole to stop wind/kids from mollesting signage.
    I might try that on the ones near me (though they haven't moved for over 12 months now). Just drill a hole and chuck a big bolt in the back. Maybe one with an Allen key to tighten.


  • #16
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    daymobrew wrote:
    I might try that on the ones near me (though they haven't moved for over 12 months now). Just drill a hole and chuck a big bolt in the back. Maybe one with an Allen key to tighten.
    The majority of twisting on well positioned signage (ie, set back from vehicular traffic) occurs due to kids and wind. This can be eliminated with a small 1/8" pilot hole drilled through bracket and pole and a self tapping screw (preferably a one way security screw but it's not important) inserted through it. It would take 60 seconds per sign and kids won't bother with them, nor will the wind be able to twist them.

    One of the "keep left" signs at the (not yet opened) Clonsilla link road/Ongar Distributor Road junction (currently acces to Mt. Symon) has been twisted. How many years of sign twisting does it take for these idiots to use two poles or at least a better bracket?? :mad:


  • #17
    Litcagral
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭Litcagral


    "BUS LANE NOT IN OPERATION"

    This one confuses me. Does it mean:

    (a) Any vehicles can use the Bus Lane?

    (b) The Bus Lane is closed to all vehicles ?


  • #18
    Traffic
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 371 ✭✭Traffic


    Any Vehicle can use the bus lane


  • #19
    bungeecork
    Registered Users Posts: 242 ✭✭bungeecork


    Ppls. forgive here - am making up the road numbers to illustrate a point, but the signs do exist. The N11 (M11?) signs made me smile on Sunday...

    Driving north to Dublin, huge clear white on blue signs, one over each lane, all next to each other. The middle and right lanes read;
    Middle lane: "N4 N8 N9 N11 N14 N24 N42" and arrow
    Right lane_: "N4 N8 N9 N11 N14 N24 N42" and arrow

    I'm no engineer, and no psychologist, but one large sign covering both lanes and hey presto - driver reads 9 items instead of 16.

    A friend from the UK once said to me "Road signs in Ireland are a bit Irish, aren't they..."


  • #20
    Litcagral
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭Litcagral


    Traffic wrote:
    Any Vehicle can use the bus lane


    Thought so. It would be more appropriate to have "BUS LANE OPEN TO ALL VEHICLES". :)


  • #21
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    Thinking about it ->

    if you come from the Kinsale Road roundabout towards the tunnel in Cork, theres an overhead sign (get in lane) with the left lane going to Mahon, middle 2 to N25 east.

    Problem is is that the sign is directly after a corner in the road. So it looks like the arrows are pointing to the wrong lanes.


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  • #22
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,947 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    bungeecork wrote:
    A friend from the UK once said to me "Road signs in Ireland are a bit Irish, aren't they..."
    Grrrr!!!! :mad:


  • #23
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    spacetweek wrote:
    Grrrr!!!! :mad:
    What are you Grrring for spacetweek?! If we didn't constantly make a balls of things like road signage we wouldn't have the english saying such things (I've heard scots say that 'irish' thing too btw).


  • #24
    MT
    Closed Accounts Posts: 583 ✭✭✭MT


    I mentioned this phenomenon when posting here about the state of Irish road signage some time ago. The answer to why so many signs are knocked around throughout the Republic lies in the photographs attached to post 10. The brackets used to secure these are inferior to those in use throughout NI and I presume the rest of the UK. Up here the brackets are pre-punched with indentations that then grip the pole tightly. The plain variety snapped in those pics would have much less resistance to movement. If this basic bracket is employed on all signage down there that would to some extent explain the amount of signs twisted out of position.

    Then again you still require competent workers to do the job right. One of the signs in those attachments looks as if it hasn't even been put on horizontally. Indeed, that reminds me of one new speed limit sign I stopped by down there where the manufacturers had went to the difficulty of filing in a pattern of groves on the pole prior to galvanisation to enable the brackets to grip. The problem was that whoever put the sign up hadn't bothered to place it in the right place and so all that effort went to waste.

    Another factor that ensures signs up here cannot be knocked out of place is the use of at least two poles per sign. Although more costly this method is guaranteed to keep signs facing the correct way. In this respect finger posts are never used for important directional signage in the UK.

    To add to these points, the use of flimsier aluminium sheets for sign plates in the Republic would further increase the risk of distortion of the displayed info. through the inevitable collisions with passing trucks, etc.

    Put simply, if the techniques and materials employed in the UK were put to use down there the quality and durability of signage in the RoI would be significantly improved.
    A friend from the UK once said to me "Road signs in Ireland are a bit Irish, aren't they..."
    He would have been more accurate had he just said they were sh!te.


  • #25
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    MT wrote:
    I mentioned this phenomenon when posting here about the state of Irish road signage some time ago. The answer to why so many signs are knocked around throughout the Republic lies in the photographs attached to post 10. The brackets used to secure these are inferior to those in use throughout NI and I presume the rest of the UK. Up here the brackets are pre-punched with indentations that then grip the pole tightly. The plain variety snapped in those pics would have much less resistance to movement. If this basic bracket is employed on all signage down there that would to some extent explain the amount of signs twisted out of position.
    I have seen those brackets down here too! They have a pattern stamped into the bracket alright. I'll try to get a pic of one. They should be the only type used on single pole installations.
    MT wrote:
    Another factor that ensures signs up here cannot be knocked out of place is the use of at least two poles per sign. Although more costly this method is guaranteed to keep signs facing the correct way. In this respect finger posts are never used for important directional signage in the UK.
    The Irish Traffic Signs Manual states that in urban/pedestrian areas as few poles as possible should be used to ensure pedestrians are unimpeded and visual intrusion is kept to a minimum. The manual also states that suitable anti-roation measures should be taken on single pole installations! Cantilevered 'H' type poles are one solution (used on the Dublin orbital Signage actually), or more simply a correctly installed single pole with anti-rotation brackets. The local authorities here simply fail to follow the very adequate guidelines. Outside urban areas the use of two poles would eliminate twisted signage almost instantly, but it seems this is not favoured down here. Stupid really.
    MT wrote:
    Put simply, if the techniques and materials employed in the UK were put to use down there the quality and durability of signage in the RoI would be significantly improved.
    Totally agree. our design manual is basically a carbon copy of the UK's, but it is not adhered to by the local authorities-see my other thread on this subject.


  • #26
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,234 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Stickied.


  • #27
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Cheers Victor, hopefully people will begin to add their own pictures with location and description of the problem and we can start building a database.

    If anyone would like a copy of the Traffic Signs Manual feel free to PM me and I'll send it to you. It's an eye opener.


  • #28
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    It appears that the contractors have begun taking down the incorrect bus lane signs on the Ongar road, hopefully they'll replace them with lawful signage in the near future. Seems like a result though. Now for the rest of Ireland...:eek:


  • #29
    ford fiesta
    Registered Users Posts: 3,421 ✭✭✭ford fiesta


    I think the worst signs are those approaching any airport for example, when you are on the M50 going North towords Dublin Airport..A sign to take the next junction left for Belfast and a picture of an aeroplane!!
    So to someone not used to this, they would think that they are going to Belfast airport!...Can they not just say "DUBLIN AIRPORT"!

    Another one is Knock Airport, all the road signs just point in the direction of "Airport"..not naming whick f**king airport it is.

    There are around 10 airports in this country and none are signposted as they should!

    Must be very frustrating for foreign drivers !


  • #30
    absinth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39 ✭absinth


    Sign at cork airport advising French speakers to drive on the right:

    http://blog.rymus.net/2006/01/04/conduire-a-what/

    (found here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054868769&highlight=conduire )


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  • #31
    Litcagral
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭Litcagral


    ford fiesta wrote:
    There are around 10 airports in this country QUOTE]

    40 approx. :)


This discussion has been closed.
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