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BDO v PDC

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  • 06-12-2005 12:19am
    #1
    Kingp35
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,246 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Just wondering what people's opinions are on there being two Darts Organisations and what you think the standard of both are? Kinda want to get a discussion going abut the two

    Personally I used to prefer the BDO, probably because I didnt have Sky Sports and so didnt catch much of the PDC but have to say that the PDC has come on leaps and bounds compared to the BDO in recent times. This obviously has alot to do with the money being ploughed into the PDC from Sky but they have been brilliant for the sport of darts and have promoted it on a world level whereas the BDO seems to be stuck in a rut with only one televised event each year on the BBC and only parts of the tournament are actually shown.

    The BDO does have some good players in Barneveld, Fordham, Hanky, Adams etc but on the whole I think the standard of the PDC is an awful lot better. I would love for the two organisations to join as the one and then darts really could take off as all the focus will be on the organisation.

    So what are peoples opinions regarding the two organisations and their current state and do you think a merger will ever be a viable option?


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    #2
    garred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭garred


    Was'nt there a few matches between Barney and Taylor, think Taylor beat him everytime. Personally I think the standard is better on the PDC. The money ploughed in has got to do with Sky but also Taylor. He has done a lot for darts in general: the publicity, the money, etc. He has done to darts what Tiger Woods has done to golf. The PDC also has the best commentator in sport;) Sid Waddell you legend.


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    #3
    The Rooster
    Registered Users Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭The Rooster


    Interestingly there was a Masters of Darts competition held in Holland during the year. 4 players from the PDC (Taylor, Lloyd, Mardle, Scholten) and 4 players from the BDO (Fordham, Barney, Co Stompe, Tony David).

    In the group stages each player played against the 4 players from the other "side", i.e. Taylor played Fordham, Barney, Co Stompe and Tony David - and he beat them all! Of more interest was that Lloyd lost all 4 of his games, and Mardle likewise lost all 4 of his. Scholten only won 1, therefore in total there were 16 games of BDO v PDC and the score was BDO 11 PDC 5 (with Taylor accounting for 4 out of the 5).

    In the semi-finals Taylor beat Barney (close enough I think) and Fordham beat Scholten. In the final Taylor hammered Fordham.

    Now you can't judge players just on one event, but it was interesting, especially as only Mardle was ranked outside the top 4 in the PDC, whereas Barney was the only one of the BDO lads ranked in the top 4.

    My own opinion is that Taylor is No.1, out on his own by a country mile. After that I think its fairly even between the two organisations. There are strong rumours that Barney will go to the PDC after the World Championships and that he will be part of the Premier League event that Sky shows. If he does defect, I believe he will give Taylor a harder time than anyone else currently does. Lloyd is a great dart thrower, but (to date anyway) hasnt got the self belief to beat Taylor, and never produces his best form against him.


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    #4
    Kingp35
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,246 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kingp35


    The Masters of Darts certainly was an interesting tournament and I have found the original thread that you posted about it Rooster here

    It seems as if Taylor had an easier time of it than you thought in that he beat Barney 5-2. The other results are very interesting as the BDO boys seem to have done very well against the top PDC lads and some of the best BDO players such as Hanky were not at the tournamnet so it certainly makes interesting reading.

    I agree totally that Taylor is by far the best player there is out there. He is just able to produce fantastic Darts at such a consistent level which no ther player has been able to do. Lloyd is no where Taylor in my opinion as occasionally he has very averahe games and has yet to beat Taylor in a televised event. All the major events that Lloyd has won he relied on somebody else, usually John Part, to beat Taylor for him. He seems to bottle it every time he plays him.

    I think Barney is the best player in the BDO and would be the closest to Taylor but still isnt anywhere near him in my opinion. They have played each other on a few occasiona and Taylor has proven he is the better of the two but if what you said is right and that BArney is going to move to the PDC I can see him improving as a player with there being so much more top class tournaments for him to play in. Personally I think that is the big problem with the BDO in that they dont have enough top class tournaments for their players to play in.

    I would love to see a single World Championships in the future but at this moment in time I cant see it happening anytime soon.


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    #5
    leuler
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭leuler


    I agree with the general consensus that Taylor is way ahead of anyone else and there are comparable players in both organisations after that.
    Just wondering can Irish players play in the qualifiers for both orgs? Are leagues here affiliated to either? Does anyone know how it works?


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    #6
    The Rooster
    Registered Users Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭The Rooster


    Its not that the BDO don't have the big tournaments, its that they don't get covered in the UK. Darts is huge in Holland these day, and most of it is BDO.

    There are 5 majors in the BDO, the World Championhip and World Masters held in England (the WC gets pretty decent coverage and BBC will be covering it with their interactive service, so if you press the red button you can see every dart, the Masters was also covered over a weekend recently (Barney beating a new face Goran Klemme in the final), alright coverage but the prizemoney was shambolic - £3k for the runner-up and only the last 8 got any money at all). The other 3 majors, the World Darts Trophy, the International Darts League and the Leendesk Masters are all played in Holland, they get TV coverage over there and good prizemoney I believe, but zero TV coverage in the UK. The Leendesk Masters is actually on this coming weekend

    The draw is here: http://www.leendeskmasters.nl/ld_2005/wedstrijden/body.html

    with the top player from each group progressing to the quarters.

    Of course saying all of the above, there are more tournaments and presumably more money on the PDC calendar - but the BDO have to be doing something right to keep the likes of King, Hankey, Adams etc on their side of the table.


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    #7
    The Rooster
    Registered Users Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭The Rooster


    leuler wrote:
    Just wondering can Irish players play in the qualifiers for both orgs? Are leagues here affiliated to either? Does anyone know how it works?
    I dont know for sure. This is how I think it works:

    All Irish players were originally BDO. PDC have no youth policy like the BDO have. But some choose to "transfer" over to the PDC.

    You can't play with both organisations at the same time - at least not for long. If you qualify for 2 PDC Majors, then you have to join the PDPA (the PDC players association) in order to play in that second (and subsequent) major, and I think being a member of the PDPA excludes you from playing in any BDO major.


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    #8
    Kingp35
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,246 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kingp35


    The Rooster wrote:
    Its not that the BDO don't have the big tournaments, its that they don't get covered in the UK. Darts is huge in Holland these day, and most of it is BDO.

    Oh I know darts is huge over there. Sure just look at the amount of fans that travel to the BDO WC each year. There are loads of them. Its an absolutely huge sport over there.
    There are 5 majors in the BDO, the World Championhip and World Masters held in England (the WC gets pretty decent coverage and BBC will be covering it with their interactive service, so if you press the red button you can see every dart, the Masters was also covered over a weekend recently (Barney beating a new face Goran Klemme in the final), alright coverage but the prizemoney was shambolic - £3k for the runner-up and only the last 8 got any money at all). The other 3 majors, the World Darts Trophy, the International Darts League and the Leendesk Masters are all played in Holland, they get TV coverage over there and good prizemoney I believe, but zero TV coverage in the UK. The Leendesk Masters is actually on this coming weekend

    I also knew that they had other major tournaments but I think the problem is like you said that they dont get enough exposure outside Holland. The PDC has their contract with Sky Sports so therefor their major tournaments get shown but sadly the BDO has its contract with the BBC who only really show decent coverage of the WC so we miss out on seeing any of the other tournaments which obviously means that the majority of people in these parts will follow the PDC more closely than the BDO. I love teh BDO world Championship and I watch it every year and it has some fantastic players but I think it lacks the exposure that the PDC gets which is ultimately its problem.

    Of course saying all of the above, there are more tournaments and presumably more money on the PDC calendar - but the BDO have to be doing something right to keep the likes of King, Hankey, Adams etc on their side of the table.

    Again the more money comes from Sky and the advertising involved with the PDC because of its greater exposure. Companies such as Stan James sponsor PDC events and put alot of money into as they know that their company will ultimately gain a great deal of advertisement during the tournament. The BDO suffers on the advertising front because of less exposure and thats why they can only offer smaller prize money to its players like the above mentioned 3k for runner up. But you are right when you say that something must be right to keep the top BDO players happy but I would imagine that there are quite alot fewer "professional" players associated with the BDO compared to the PDC.


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    #9
    Chong
    Registered Users Posts: 8,676 ✭✭✭Chong


    I have to say I used to love watching the BDO with barney , I have gotten into the PDC over the past 2 years but I feel the BDO is better. The reason being there is too much pomp with the PDC.


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    #10
    The Rooster
    Registered Users Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭The Rooster


    Kingp35 wrote:
    I also knew that they had other major tournaments but I think the problem is like you said that they dont get enough exposure outside Holland. The PDC has their contract with Sky Sports so therefor their major tournaments get shown but sadly the BDO has its contract with the BBC who only really show decent coverage of the WC so we miss out on seeing any of the other tournaments which obviously means that the majority of people in these parts will follow the PDC more closely than the BDO.

    The problem with Sky is that only a limited number of people have it. If the BDO lost their BBC coverage (even though its limited) it would be disasterous for darts IMO, it would turn it into a niche sport. Yes, if you have Sky then you will have more of an interest in PDC simply because you get to see the PDC players far more often - though still more people watch the BDO games, as can be seen from the following peak viewing figures:

    BBC
    2004 Lakeside - 3,400,000
    2005 Lakeside - 2,500,000 (hopefully that decline does not continue)
    2005 Winmau Masters - 2,100,000

    Sky Sports
    World Championship 500,000
    World Matchplay 250,000
    World Grand Prix 200,000
    Premier League Final 130,000
    UK Open Final 150,000
    Vegas Final 150,000

    So BBC darts gets between 5 and 10 times the amount of viewers in the UK, but Sky has between 5 and 10 times better coverage!! A good mixture of the two would be ideal


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    #11
    mchurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭mchurl


    imo Taylor is far better than everyone and he has proved this many times before as well. The rest of the players are all in or around the same mark but i would rate barney higher than the rest of them. The fact that the pdc gets a lot more coverage than the bdo means that people will think that the pdc players are a lot better but this isnt necessarily the case. If the two organisations were to combine darts would really take off and its ever increasing popularity would just shoot through the roof


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    #12
    Kingp35
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,246 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kingp35


    The Rooster wrote:
    BBC
    2004 Lakeside - 3,400,000
    2005 Lakeside - 2,500,000 (hopefully that decline does not continue)
    2005 Winmau Masters - 2,100,000

    Sky Sports
    World Championship 500,000
    World Matchplay 250,000
    World Grand Prix 200,000
    Premier League Final 130,000
    UK Open Final 150,000
    Vegas Final 150,000

    So BBC darts gets between 5 and 10 times the amount of viewers in the UK, but Sky has between 5 and 10 times better coverage!! A good mixture of the two would be ideal

    Very interesting figures there Rooster. For me I used to favour the BDO as I didnt have Sky and therefor didnt get to see as many games. I only really got to see the BDO WC a year and so I was a huge fan of that. Since I have gotten Sky I have gotten more into the PDC as there is more coverage on it but I still love the BDO championship. Your right when you say that people obviously have access to the BBC coverage and not as many poeple have SKY TV. What I find even more interesting is that if you combine all the Sky viewing figures it still doesnt match up to the BDO WC viewing figures.

    There is no denying that Sky has been terrific for Darts promoting it around the UK and the World but the fact that it is on cable TV means that some people dont get to see it. If the BBC took it upon themselves to show more BDO tournaments, darts could become even a bigger sport. The BDO viewing figures already show that it is a hugely popular sport that just doesnt get the TV time that it deserves from the BBC.

    A medium between the two would be great but as far as I know Sky has the PDC contract sewn up for a good few years to come


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