Wardriving

Gaillimhtaibhse · 03-12-2005 9:06pm #1

Should we all wardrive? An anarchist friend of mine suggested that we should wardrive whenever possible. He says that the Internet is free, and that no one should pay a capitalist middleman for access to something that is free.

I raised the concern about accessing the web for free through a paying customer, without their knowledge or permission. He said that if they fail to firewall and password protect their wireless router, they are inviting you to wardrive.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Ruu_Old · 03-12-2005 9:25pm

yeah, fight the power, and so on

i thought wireless access depended on how well the company secures the network and not the user, but i dont know. someone else more knowledgeable will no doubt have a say in this.

DemonOfTheFall · 03-12-2005 9:26pm

Wardrive means driving around with a laptop seeing how many networks you can find.

Your thinking about just using your neighbour's internet access at home. Pretty big difference.

I'd say that someone's network is fair game if they're running eircom defaults. I wouldn't abuse their bandwidth with bittorrent or something, but I definitely would for surfing.

aidan_walsh · 03-12-2005 9:30pm

DemonOfTheFall wrote:

I'd say that someone's network is fair game if they're running eircom defaults.

I wouldn't. I don't think that its fair to use someone else's connection just because they are naive.

DonkeyStyle \o/ · 03-12-2005 9:35pm

Gaillimhtaibhse wrote:

An anarchist friend of mine suggested...

That should be enough to stop you right there... anarchists are the masters of mind-bogglingly retarded logic.
As demonstrated by the rest of that post.

Yeah the internet is "free", so lets spend petrol money driving around for 50 miles looking for an open hotspot :rolleyes:

He said that if they fail to firewall and password protect their wireless router, they are inviting you to wardrive.

If someone is clueless enough to leave their wireless network wide-open, then I doubt they've ever even heard the term 'wardriving', so how can they be inviting you to do it?
There again, maybe they're just kind souls who want to share their net access with passers by.

I don't disagree with doing it, I think it's pretty harmless if the wardriver isn't up to anything naughty or taking the piss with the bandwidth, but the given justification is a bit weak.

Capt'n Midnight · 03-12-2005 9:56pm

Gaillimhtaibhse wrote:

Should we all wardrive? An anarchist friend of mine suggested that we should wardrive whenever possible. He says that the Internet is free, and that no one should pay a capitalist middleman for access to something that is free.

We are in a country where most internet connections are pay per minute or pay extra if you go over the cap. Hence what he is suggesting amounts to a financial hit on the victim - theft if you like.

The internet is not free. It uses electricity and copper and routers and stuff and people have to look after it.

An attitued like that would suggest we should shoplift enter open doors when possible to see what people have invited us to take :rolleyes:

Has that guy shared his internet connection - or is he just a leech ?

Yes the information should be free.
Yes the middle men are screwing us.
But sponging off your neighbour doesn't affect the middle man , nor does it make you a hero instead of a parasite.

As for anarchy despite the large number of time where all civil structure was wiped out in many places during the last century no utopia spontaneously generated.

ShiverinEskimo · 03-12-2005 9:57pm

So you want to attack the strong (eircom et al) by taking advantage of the weak (naive home users) - pretty ****ed up set of objectives there..but hey - you do whatcha gotta do..

stevenmu · 03-12-2005 10:16pm

Gaillimhtaibhse wrote:

He says that the Internet is free, and that no one should pay a capitalist middleman for access to something that is free.

That's the same kind of logic 'socialists' use when they say that they're supporting the common worker by sponging off the dole. The internet was initially built by the US military and research institutions, but the majority of what we recognise as the modern Internet was built by the 'capitalist middleman' who charge for access to it.

Archytas · 03-12-2005 10:22pm

Most of you seem to be decent folk around these threads but using someone elses bandwidth for a laugh is just wrong. There is no argument that will change my mind. Your "anarchist" friend is a thief. S/He isn't hurting the "capatalist middleman". What about some eircom BB time customer that comes home to a bill for €100? What happens if they cant pay it? Does that hurt the "capatalist middleman"? No it doesn't. It hurts the older/poorer people who tend to buy this type of BB package.

Abuse eircom hotspots or other eircom paid-for facilities, I couldn't care less, but ordinary folks dont deserve to be f'd around by you or anyone else.
I have never wanted to curse more in a thread in my entire life. What your friend is suggesting is disgusting.

DemonOfTheFall · 04-12-2005 2:08am

Yeah, lol, re-reading the OP, his friend sounds like a muppet. It doesnt harm eircom in the slightest, it's only harming your neighbours.

A friend of mine got out the wireless card and antennas a while back looking for any free access from the houses in our estate, but the signal was too weak on all of them. He only did that because he has no option to get broadband himself. I don't think that it harms anyone really if you don't take the piss with their connection. If all you ever do is some light surfing they'll never even notice!

That said, if I had any chance to pay for my own net access I would definitely take it rather than scab someone elses. When I move out next year I'm sure itll be ridiculously easy to find unsecured networks and just get free internet, but I'd much rather suck it up and just pay 40 quid a month for my own.

SouperComputer · 04-12-2005 4:12pm

He says that the Internet is free, and that no one should pay a capitalist middleman for access to something that is free.

Access to private networks is illegal without authorisation, regardless of weather the network is connected to the internet or not. Your friend is a thief, by overcoming security measures he is "breaking and entering" and without out its just simple theft

The internet is not free, it never was and never will be. Technology costs money. Your friend is deluded!

[hypothetical example] Hmmm, my neighbours door is open, think ill help myself to the warm Mcdonalds on her kitchen table, YEA that will hit the capitalist big dicks big time :rolleyes: [/hypothetical example]

CiaranC · 04-12-2005 4:24pm

Whats wrong with using open access points to browse the web or check your mail? I do it all the time. I had my own network open for over a year and only had to close it when someone started taking the piss with bandwidth.

Its says a lot about our society (with all this talk about 'socialists' and 'anarchists') when the simple act of sharing something with your neighbours makes you naive and them thieves. :rolleyes:

Gone West · 04-12-2005 5:23pm

Who said the internet is free?
Somebody has to pay the cost of bringing cables across the ocean floor.
Somebody has to pay the cost of the servers and routing equipment that all our data moves through.
those people are called ISP's(mostly the tier1 guys) and they charge you or smaller isps to use their equipment.

And wardriving is so 1998.
Have fun if you try any of mine.

Archytas · 04-12-2005 7:11pm

CiaranC wrote:

Whats wrong with using open access points to browse the web or check your mail? I do it all the time.

Do these people know? Have they given you consent?

CiaranC wrote:

I had my own network open for over a year...

Thats your decision and nobody is stopping you from doing this.

CiaranC wrote:

...and only had to close it when someone started taking the piss with bandwidth.

Or maybe someone is? :rolleyes:

CiaranC wrote:

Its says a lot about our society (with all this talk about 'socialists' and 'anarchists') when the simple act of sharing something with your neighbours makes you naive and them thieves. :rolleyes:

That is not what anyone said here?? Do you know that these people that are "sharing" with this "wardriver"?? How about you give us your number so that the next time someone is crying on the phone about an internet bill they cant pay can give you a call and you'll give them this BS about how its not wrong??

P.s. Wardriving is such a stupid name for this idiocy.

DemonOfTheFall · 04-12-2005 11:42pm

It's actually the wrong name too. Wardriving is going around with a laptop seeing how many open APs you can find. This is just using your neighbours internet. Absolutely not the same thing.

Gone West · 05-12-2005 12:16am

war paddling for teh win.
http://photobucket.com/albums/a52/peterjv/?action=view&current=image1087.jpg

KdjaCL · 05-12-2005 12:31am

LOl know a few cheapasses who were doing this on my mates router, were leeching from FTPs over his unsecured wireless, when i went to fix it (his net was suffering from the leeching *****.
They pulled up outside and started to download a movie and 2 games and a distro from various ftps.
Using his routers software let them get to 98% of all files then blocked the ftp and http ports one by one and renamed the network "car-outside-fukoff"

Wardriving = cheapasses.

kdjac

DonkeyStyle \o/ · 05-12-2005 12:49am

KdjaC wrote:

renamed the network "car-outside-fukoff"

lol

dalk · 05-12-2005 11:04am

Some will argue that since a Open Network broadcasts it existence, it is 'inviting' you to join. And because it requires no password and you are not breaking any encryption, and you were 'invited' to join in the first place, you are not 'breaking and entering'.

So was waiting to see how the the courts would view such trains of logic. Seeing as our legal system is similar to the UK's seems like its pretty straight forward illegal in the eyes of the law...

UK War Driver Fined

di11on · 05-12-2005 11:39am

The internet is free? No it's not! Someone somewhere is always paying for it.

The culprit here are the ISPs. Home users should be appropriately informed of the consequences of leaving their network unsecured. The default wireless network settings should result in an encrypted network - that should be standard.

steveland? · 05-12-2005 12:22pm

Gaillimhtaibhse wrote:

An anarchist friend of mine suggested that we should wardrive whenever possible.

:v:

FIGHT THA POWAH! Your "anarchist" friend sounds very knowledgeable about the internet. As we all know the servers, computers and physical connections that drive the internet were built and put in place at no cost to anyone... therefore making the internet completely free...

It's just those bastards like Eircom who've decided that they're going to pretend that servers and server upkeep cost money...

How DARE they!

no one should pay a capitalist middleman for access to something that is free

I'll bet your "anarchist" friend has no problem paying Asha €50 for an oversized black hoodie with an anarchy symbol on it that some 6-year old made and taking a scissors to it so he looks all cool and anarchish...

Gaillimhtaibhse wrote:

An anarchist friend of mine

Re-quoted just for the sheer hilarity...

jd · 05-12-2005 12:31pm

di11on wrote:

The culprit here are the ISPs. ...... The default wireless network settings should result in an encrypted network - that should be standard.

I believe they (the isps?) do-well, that was how it (the cdrom) set up my dads network..
jd

Archytas · 05-12-2005 1:27pm

eircoms netopia 3347nwg comes with wep turned on as standard....

astrofool · 05-12-2005 1:53pm

New York has made unencrypted wireless network routers illegal out of the box, so the manufacturers have to ensure encryption is in place.

aidan_walsh · 05-12-2005 2:01pm

astrofool wrote:

New York has made unencrypted wireless network routers illegal out of the box, so the manufacturers have to ensure encryption is in place.

Unfortunatly, that only applies to one county in New York State, and hasn't actually been adopted yet.

Capt'n Midnight · 05-12-2005 3:05pm

dalk wrote:

Some will argue that since a Open Network broadcasts it existence, it is 'inviting' you to join. And because it requires no password and you are not breaking any encryption, and you were 'invited' to join in the first place, you are not 'breaking and entering'.

So was waiting to see how the the courts would view such trains of logic. Seeing as our legal system is similar to the UK's seems like its pretty straight forward illegal in the eyes of the law...

UK War Driver Fined

I'd say the courts would take the same view as they do currently with regard to the defence of "it wasn't breaking and entering, cos the window wasn't locked" or "someone had put thier bag down on the ground, so I knew they wanted me to help myself"

There was a time in this country where people didn't lock doors when they went out, this practice continued in rural Sligo till the 80's at least. Because of freeloading scummers we now need deadlocks and monitored alarms and chains.

Gaillimhtaibhse · 06-12-2005 1:17am

There are some cities in the States that are attempting to provide free wireless access for their citizens, but the cable companies have been fighting it. They have somehow influenced their elected government officials at the state level to pass laws that would prevent these cities from offering free WiFi on the grounds that it would hurt private sector for profit corporations. If you don't believe this thread, then check out the recent laws passed in the State of Pennsylvania (Harrisburg is the capital where all this legislation has occurred affecting this state), for example.

Gone West · 06-12-2005 1:36am

Jeez.
There are a LOT of uninformed posters on this thread talking absolute shi'ite.
Go read up on the subject matter before contributing youre drivel as fact.

BopNiblets · 06-12-2005 2:36am

Huh, 1st I've heard of wardriving, now all I need is a car, driving lessons, and a laptop with wireless....

Ah screw it.

gline · 06-12-2005 9:29am

tell ur mate to pay for broadand like everyone else, the cheapass. Its not fair to freeload off a neighbour, different if its a big company.. but your own neighbours :mad:

AARRRGH · 06-12-2005 10:09am

Gaillimhtaibhse wrote:

ShoAn anarchist friend of mine suggested that we should wardrive whenever possible. He says that the Internet is free, and that no one should pay a capitalist middleman for access to something that is free.

Your friend is an idiot. Who does he think pays for the cabling, data transfer, routers, servers, network admins, developers, etc etc.?

The internet is not free.

Wardriving

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