I object to today's Republican march.

bugler · 24-09-2005 8:16pm #1

I was passing back through Dublin's city centre today after meeting my parents. Although I had seen the posters advertising the "make partition history" march (you know the ones with the ginger child waving a tricolour), I hadn't noticed it was today.

I'm not someone who is generally bothered by protests or marches, however I feel about the causes themselves. Live and let live and all that. I was galled enough at the nerve of the parasitic, opportunistic choosing of the slogan "make partition history" by this movement, talk about carjacking a bandwagon. But my main objection to this was that I'd rather not have IRA marches down my city's main streets. For that's what this at least partly was. Of course there was the usual suits (I only saw two Sinn Fein TDs, I assume all the parties leading folk were present though) to add some veneer of respectability, but the many marching bands in their berets and military style sweaters were the focal point of it all.

There were plenty of children there too. Some were chanting "Tiocfaidh Ar Lá" in time, though there was plenty of mis-pronounciation, suggesting they were unfamiliar with the words, and possibly their meaning. Just in front of these children was a fat fellow with a loudspeaker and a gaggle of other middle aged men and women. Among the charming ditties this crowd belted out were "If you hate the British Army clap your hands", and "Kill, Kill, Kill the RUC".

I was standing there looking on with mild disgust (I was tired and these guys were holding up public transport), when who did I see swanning along holding a banner that read "Free All Republican Prisoners Now", but one James Monaghan. Yes, Ireland's leading academic on the Columbian Peace Process, he of the Columbia Three. It's good to know he is still so rigorous in his study of peace, despite his unfortunate self-imposed exile from studying in his chosen country.

Personally, this has nothing to with politics. I hold most politicians in varying degrees of contempt,self-interested and self-serving bunch that they are. But frankly, watching this grotesque carnival of suits and their entourage of brainwashed children, shaven headed beer-bellied "stewards", gangsters and smuggler-thugs saddened me.

There were plenty of foreign people out watching, British among them of course, and I'd liked to have asked some of them what they thought. I haven't even gone into many of the various floats or banners that people carried, many of which harked back to events of a century (or indeed much longer) ago.

I've harboured plans to emigrate for some time now for many key personal reasons. Today I felt I gained another.

LordSutch · 24-09-2005 8:33pm

Todays "Make Partition History" rally was a travesty, a disgrace, and to be honest a load of horse ****! I stood open mouthed on O'Connell St looking at the the various groups of rabble marching along Dublins main Street with Drums banging, IRA banners flying in the breeze with all kinds of riff raf in tow! so I asked myself - what the hell was it all about? as they chanted "make partition history" "Brits Out" "up the RA" "kill all RUC scum" etc ..........................
Now I am not a Rocket scientist or a ploitician, but isnt Sinn Fein signed-up to the Good Friday Agreement? and as such they agree that N.ireland will remain within the UK for as long as the population living there wish!!!
So why todays march???

linux · 24-09-2005 8:34pm

I support those people who marched today all 15,000 in their efforts to re-unite this country.There is a big message from all of this and it is that Sinn Fein are the only party visibly taking a stand on this issue and that other southern political parties do not see re-unification as a priority.

murphaph · 24-09-2005 8:45pm

linux wrote:

....other southern political parties do not see re-unification as a priority.

neither does most of the electorate.

djmarkus · 24-09-2005 8:46pm

God, its not going to turn into ANOTHER one of those generic NI threads

bugler · 24-09-2005 8:46pm

If reunification of this island ever occurs, I hope the only ones killed or maimed in the violence that would follow are those who were short-sighted and ignorant enough to vote for it. Of course, we all know what the chances of that are from watching the North for the past how many years. The sooner republican fantasists realise the real consequences of reunification the better. The North cannot rejoin the Republic. It is not workable presently.

bugler · 24-09-2005 8:51pm

djmarkus wrote:

God, its not going to turn into ANOTHER one of those generic NI threads

Maybe you could exercise your free will and not bother clicking the reply button.

And to state the obvious: This thread is about Dublin, not Northern Ireland.

linux · 24-09-2005 8:58pm

bugler wrote:

If reunification of this island ever occurs, I hope the only ones killed or maimed in the violence that would follow are those who were short-sighted and ignorant enough to vote for it. Of course, we all know what the chances of that are from watching the North for the past how many years. The sooner republican fantasists realise the real consequences of reunification the better. The North cannot rejoin the Republic. It is not workable presently.

Well unfortunately Bulger it will occur and although you would like to see more people die as a result, I would hope its a peacefull transition.The North will rejoin (by this I see you have an understanding that we once were a nation united) the republic at some time in the future, and all republicans aspire to this, otherwise they would cease to be republican.

djmarkus · 24-09-2005 9:00pm

bugler wrote:

Maybe you could exercise your free will and not bother clicking the reply button.

And to state the obvious: This thread is about Dublin, not Northern Ireland.

It may start with dublin, but im 100% sure it will loose all definition and end up talking about NI(See previous post), and i am and will use my right to use the reply button.

linux · 24-09-2005 9:03pm

murphaph wrote:

neither does most of the electorate.

and where do you get this notion from? facts,figures,links,etc? you know no argument holds ground unless your willing to support it with actual fact.
Murphaph now proports to speak for the majority of the electorate, you know you get even more hillarious and patronising by the minute.

bugler · 24-09-2005 9:06pm

I don't want to get too off-topic on this. What I really want from this thread is some input from people in general about what they thought about this march. So I'm not going to ask for your undoubtedly brilliant plan as to how you'll peacefully assimilate the 800,000 Unionist or Loyalist population into this republican paradise.

Do people want slogans such as those already mentioned being chanted openly in their streets?

linux · 24-09-2005 9:11pm

bugler wrote:

Do people want slogans such as those already mentioned being chanted openly in their streets?

Well unless you have evidence of some of the slogans you say had been chanted then I would debate them, I was passing the march and it was quite colorful and entertaining to say the least.I did'nt hear any of those ridiculous chants Kill Kill Kill the RUC etc. that you suggest. I'll have a read of the papers 2moro and see if your telling the truth or reporting a lot of hogwash, until then your statement is pure speculation.

Newshound · 24-09-2005 9:20pm

linux wrote:

Well unless you have evidence of some of the slogans you say had been chanted then I would debate them, I was passing the march and it was quite colorful and entertaining to say the least.I did'nt hear any of those ridiculous chants Kill Kill Kill the RUC etc. that you suggest. I'll have a read of the papers 2moro and see if your telling the truth or reporting a lot of hogwash, until then your statement is pure speculation.

I heard some rather disturbing chants from them.
And so did all the visitors to our capital city.

linux · 24-09-2005 9:22pm

Newshound wrote:

I heard some rather disturbing chants from them.
And so did all the visitors to our capital city.

And I heard pigs were flying over GPO. C'mon evidence lads not bolony please..

bugler · 24-09-2005 9:23pm

No, you're right. I'm lying...I made it up because....oh well I don't know, but I'm sure you can come up with a reason as to why I did it. While you're at it, make a reason up for why Arthur F and Newshound is lying too. Could you make me out as an agent of MI5 if you can, please.

Likening pigs flying to republicans chanting anti-british slogans, wow that's a reasonable comparison. How many people will have to say they heard it before you believe it? Or I assume we'll actually have to get some video footage posted up for you? Then of course you can claim it was doctored.

linux · 24-09-2005 9:28pm

bugler wrote:

No, you're right. I'm lying...I made it up because....oh well I don't know, but I'm sure you can come up with a reason as to why I did it. While you're at it, make a reason up for why Arthur F is lying too. Could you make me out as an agent of MI5 if you can, please.

And why should anybody believe you? or maybe a whole 3 of you, after all the media were there and if such things as "Kill Kill Kill the RUC" were roared along the streets of Dublin by god they will report it, so untill then its hogwash I'm afraid. I said I will scan the papers tomorrow and I have a feeling you'll have a red face on you when I come looking for your evidence.

linux · 24-09-2005 9:43pm

bugler wrote:

I'm not someone who is generally bothered by protests or marches,

well by posting this thread full of lies and nonsense you could have fooled me.

bugler wrote:

however I feel about the causes themselves.

and what exactly do you feel about "The Causes" themselves as you put it,can you elaborate Bulger?

Baz_ · 24-09-2005 9:48pm

linux wrote:

And I heard pigs were flying over GPO. C'mon evidence lads not bolony please..

I wasn't going to reply to this but...

Are you so arrogant as to believe that people (yes more than one person) would come on here and say they heard certain chants, just to fool you?

Their stories seem to corroborate each other, and tbh I can't think of any more solid evidence than first hand eye witnesses.

What, in the name of god, more do you need in terms of evidence.

/me tries desperately hard not to be abusive

Baz_ · 24-09-2005 9:49pm

linux wrote:

well by posting this thread full of lies and nonsense you could have fooled me.

and what exactly do you feel about "The Causes" themselves as you put it,can you elaborate Bulger?

Holy fúck! You cannot be for real.

Troll much?

24-09-2005 10:03pm

linux wrote:

I support those people who marched today all 15,000

RTÉ not known to exaggerate put the figures at up to 4000.

As regards support for a united Ireland,I'd say theres a lot of aspirational support but it's on a priority something along the lines that most of the major parties put it at.
If it was any higher SF's support in the polls would be more than the 10% they had in the last poll.

well by posting this thread full of lies and nonsense you could have fooled me.

and what exactly do you feel about "The Causes" themselves as you put it,can you elaborate Bulger?

Tone that language down please and Do not accuse one poster who watched a parade of lying especially when another poster who also was there says he saw much the same thing.

In fact Don't ever accuse a poster here of lying without adequate proof.
You would be better off with a line that you disapproved of anyone saying the kind of things the posters here are complaining about.

If I see any argey bargey in this thread,I will take action.

linux · 24-09-2005 10:08pm

Baz_ wrote:

I wasn't going to reply to this but...

Yeah Right!

Baz_ wrote:

Are you so arrogant as to believe that people (yes more than one person) would come on here and say they heard certain chants, just to fool you?

No. Im just not as gullible as some people.

Baz_ wrote:

Their stories seem to corroborate each other, and tbh I can't think of any more solid evidence than first hand eye witnesses.

Good god not another one... To let you know I'm not in anyway arrogant as you might think and I certainly don't take my cue from Internet forums and suggest they are telling the truth when they cannot supply one shred of evidence. As I presume you've already read the thread you'll notice I too seen the march today and heard nothing of the nonsense reported by two people whom I know nothing about and in my belief are spouting a lot of nonsense.

I have watched both the 9 o'clock news and Sky news and there was no mention of such chants as you call them. I will scan the papers 2moro as I have said and will give Bulger the benefit of the doubt until then, if the papers don't report it then I'm afraid it will be regarded as bull.

Are you so gullible that you would believe a couple of posts supporting each other as fact when no evidence is given

you'd make a super Lawer Baz:D

Cork · 24-09-2005 10:09pm

ArthurF wrote:

Todays "Make Partition History" rally was a travesty, a disgrace, and to be honest a load of horse ****! I stood open mouthed on O'Connell St looking at the the various groups of rabble marching along Dublins main Street with Drums banging, IRA banners flying in the breeze with all kinds of riff raf in tow! so I asked myself - what the hell was it all about? as they chanted "make partition history" "Brits Out" "up the RA" "kill all RUC scum" etc ..........................

What do you expect from SF. The political wing of an organisation that planted bombs in trash cans.

Both SF and the IRA signed up to the GFA. They accept partition as long as the majority want it.

What I can't stand about SF/IRA is that instead of mending fences with the unionists - they engage in "Make Partition History" rally.

At least the provisional movement will soon give up their grubby guns & let us wish the criminal assets bereau all the best in going after any proceeds of criminality.

linux · 24-09-2005 10:19pm

Earthman wrote:

RTÉ not known to exaggerate put the figures .

Says who?

Earthman wrote:

As regards support for a united Ireland,I'd say theres a lot of aspirational support but it's on a priority something along the lines that most of the major parties put it at.
If it was any higher SF's support in the polls would be more than the 10% they had in the last poll..

Thats nonsense, the question has never been put to the Irish people in a referendum. It could be argued Those who vote Fianna Fail (the republican party) are voting for just that.

Earthman wrote:

Tone that language down please and Do not accuse one poster who watched a parade of lying especially when another poster who also was there says he saw much the same thing...

What language? there's no point in arguing something if they cannot support their argument with fact,and you know that, so don't patronise me my friend.

patzer117 · 24-09-2005 10:24pm

I'd well believe it. I've heard chants like that before. And it seriously wouldn't surprise me if the media somehow failed to mention it. It's also sickening to see that children are on these marches - who honestly don't know what they are talking about but are being used by selfish parents as pawns for their own ends.

The marches do bother me but that's their democratic right. If somebody has a problem with it then perhaps someone should take a video tape of it and file a suit for incitement to hatred (or even violence if it was 'kill the Ruc'). I don't know if that's possible.

I was thinking of going in to the march with a poster one side saying 'ignorant' and the other side saying 'Send them back to Columbia'. Don't get me started on James 'Mortar' Monaghan.

I think Bulger has it right - this was nothing more than a grotesque carnival, a freak show, an IRA parade.

linux · 24-09-2005 10:26pm

patzer117 wrote:

I was thinking of going in to the march with a poster one side saying 'ignorant' and the other side saying 'Send them back to Columbia'.
.

So why did'nt you?

linux · 24-09-2005 10:30pm

patzer117 wrote:

And it seriously wouldn't surprise me if the media somehow failed to mention it.

Ha! the back-tracking begins

patzer117 · 24-09-2005 10:30pm

linux wrote:

So why did'nt you?

Cause I work at weekends - today i was working 3 - 9 and had to meet friends in the morning unfortunately/fortunately

linux · 24-09-2005 10:34pm

patzer117 wrote:

Don't condemn people for their ignorance use it against them

There's no need your doing it yourself.

Baz_ · 25-09-2005 1:08am

Jesus, I hate when I get dragged into these ones...

linux wrote:

Good god not another one...

Not another what exactly. Don't get me wrong, I haven't taken offence
(yet), but I would like to know what I'm being accused of.

linux wrote:

To let you know I'm not in anyway arrogant as you might
think

Well you're certainly proving that point.

linux wrote:

and I certainly don't take my cue from Internet forums
and suggest they are telling the truth when they cannot supply
one shred of evidence.

I presume that when you say you don't take your cue from internet
forums, that what you actually mean is that you don't take them as a
trustworthy source of information/news/current affairs. If not why
not. All media corporations put a spin on the news to suit their own
ends, why do you believe them any more than people who are effectively
your peers?

That seems to be a very blinkered stance to take...

linux wrote:

As I presume you've already read the thread you'll notice
I too seen the march today and heard nothing of the nonsense
reported by two people whom I know nothing about and in my belief are
spouting a lot of nonsense.

Just because you didn't see/hear it, doesn't mean it didn't happen.
That is an undeniable nugget of logic.

On the flip side just because three people on boards.ie said they saw
it, doesn't mean it did happen.

However, you have shown yourself to be overtly sympathetic to the
rally, and I honestly would never expect you to give a truthful and
honest account of the rally because of that bias. In other words,
because of your standpoint I simply cannot believe anything you say on
this matter, especially when it comes down to a critical aspect of the
rally.

As for the other three posters, from their comments, they don't seem
to have the same emotional attachment to this rally as you do, so
personally I would have to go with one of them. Since they are all
corroborating each other, it leads me to believe that yes there was
some bigoted chanting going on.

Now as you claim yourself, I am nobodies fool, and unless I witnessed
the chants myself, I can never ever be one hundred percent certain
they happened (even if I read same in a newspaper, or saw it on the
news). Even if I *did* witness it I could never be certain as we
humans have a tendency to delusion *cough*.

linux wrote:

I have watched both the 9 o'clock news and Sky news and
there was no mention of such chants as you call them. I will scan the
papers 2moro as I have said and will give Bulger the benefit of the
doubt until then, if the papers don't report it then I'm afraid it
will be regarded as bull.

Again, you cannot trust these sources any more than a bulletin board
user, all sources may simply not wish to fan the flames of hatred any
more than is already apparent.

linux wrote:

Are you so gullible that you would believe a couple of
posts supporting each other as fact when no evidence is given

Not, perhaps, on their own, it is the similarity of the reports which
give them credibility. Just because you believe things, doesn't
necessarily make you gullible, and quite frankly I find your tactic of
bullying people into thinking they would have to be stupid to believe
whats posted on a bulletin board detestable, and as I said before
smacks of an awful arrogance on your part.

linux wrote:

you'd make a super Lawer Baz:D

Thank you.

25-09-2005 1:10am

Final warning to all in this thread.
Healthy discussion here without the one line ha ha posts and calm your tones or else action will be taken.

PHB · 25-09-2005 1:54am

There was in no way 15000 people marching, i'd say at most 2000, and thats a very generous estimate were marching.
I was walking by, I'd imagine I was counted in the 15000 figure.

Today wasn't about partition, it wasnt about the IRA, it wasn't about the RUC, it was only about one thing, SF publicity.
Sinn Fein are trying to get enough seats to hold the balance of power in government, and this is their best angle to take, since they have absolutely nothing else to offer to our government or our people

I object to today's Republican march.

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