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Israel/Palestine Thread

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭wildgreen


    Survey shows that Israel is the most disliked country in the World. Uefa, Eurovision, etc. need to consider these findings.

    https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20260513-israel-becomes-worlds-most-disliked-country-global-survey-finds/

    The collapse in Israel’s standing comes as global public opinion has shifted sharply against the occupation state over its assault on Gaza. Since October 2023, Israel has killed over 74 thousand Palestinians, destroyed most of Gaza’s civilian infrastructure, displaced nearly the entire population and imposed conditions that UN experts and genocide scholars have described as genocidal.

    For the US, the findings point to the steep cost of Washington’s continued military, diplomatic and political support for Israel. While successive US administrations have shielded Israel from accountability at the UN and continued arms transfers despite mounting evidence of war crimes, the survey suggests that global publics increasingly associate American power with impunity, double standards and destabilising wars.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,020 ✭✭✭✭SeanW


    Which canard is this?

    The proven fact of Ayatollah Khameni congratulating Anti-Israel activists in the West? The fact that calls for the destruction of Israel have been normalised in the West? Or the reality that Israel's conflicts are - at best - zero sum games?

    https://u24.gov.ua/
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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 307 ✭✭StarryPlough01


    A couple of weeks ago, he was reported to be a young ”Israel man of Russian origin/background”. It’s very likely that he is a Jew.

    I thought of him as a protector of a vulnerable woman, who happens to be a French Catholic nun. He wasn’t a passive bystander. I think the essence of a person is to do with their authentic being and, perhaps, how this shapes their character and flows into actions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,727 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Genocidal language in support of Israel is accepted discourse outside of Israel,particularly among christian zionists in America. Is it that genocidal language doesn't really matter to some, rather it depends who is uttering it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 307 ✭✭StarryPlough01


    It’s the seed of genocide - us and them. Genocide is eliminating all others.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 307 ✭✭StarryPlough01


    Here's more food for thought:

    RSF / Reporters Without Borders - World Press Freedom Index
    https://rsf.org/en/index?year

    EXTRACTS ONLY

    In 2026 IRELAND ranks 7 out of 180 (they aren’t killing journalists) :

    “The overall climate for press freedom in Ireland is positive, with journalists able to work freely and without interference. Concerns remain, however, about the future funding of the media, including public service broadcaster RTÉ.

    In 2026 ISRAEL ranks 115 out of 180 :

    Safety
    "Press freedom, media pluralism and editorial independence have been increasingly restricted in Israel since the start of the war in Gaza, on 7 October 2023, following the deadly Hamas attack. Close to 220 journalists have been killed by the Israeli army — including 70 slain due to their work — in its offensive on the Strip. Disinformation campaigns and repressive laws have multiplied in Israel, and pressure on Israeli journalists has intensified. 

    In 2026, PALESTINE ranks 156 out of 180

    Palestine has become the most dangerous state for journalists in the world, with more than 220 reporters killed in Gaza by the Israeli army since 7 October 2023, including at least 70 who were likely killed due to their work. In the West Bank, where journalists were already the victims of abuses by both the Palestinian Authority and the Israeli occupying forces, arrests and obstructions to their work have intensified.

    Interestingly, in 2026 China ranks 178/180.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,102 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    So, a Jew then. And yet the poster who described this attack as "unsurprising" didn't have a word to say about the fact that the rescuer was equally Jewish. It wouldn't be ok to extrapolate out from Esse Suleiman, Jihad al-Shamie or Ahmed Ali Alid to Muslims in general, yet it's what happens with Israelis and indeed Jews in general all the time.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,102 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Does that number include "journalists" who were actually working for Hamas though?

    People like Abdallah Aljamal, who wrote multiple articles about an IDF operation in Nuseirat, where he himself was holding three hostages in his home. In reality the IDF actions were related to their search for the hostages. Aljamal's death was initially reported by pro Hamas sources like Rami Abdu of Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor as another journalist killed by the IDF, with no mention of the hostages rescued in the operation.

    https://nypost.com/2024/06/09/world-news/gaza-journalist-held-3-hostages-in-his-home-with-his-family-israeli-military-says/

    (His father, who was also killed in the rescue, was a well-known doctor and imam who went on working as normal, while his wife and son monitored the hostages. Another doctor murdered by Israel? Yet it took over two years for DWB/MSF to admit that hospitals were being used by Hamas)

    There are many more cases of so-called journalists actually being operatives for Hamas or other islamist groups:

    Just one:

    image.png

    There's a whole list here:

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,043 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Well now that Israel have told us the iron clad truth, we'll just put the whole journalist thing to the side. I wait with baited breath for the justification of the other 70,000 or so they've killed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,102 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Two points on that:

    Starting a war and then losing it does lead to deaths among your own civilians - especially when using those civilians as human shields is a significant part of your strategy. That's what happens in war.

    But also, we already know that the profiles of those who died is mainly of teenage or adult males - which, given that Hamas uses boys as fighters indicates that the IDF was not just killing civilians randomly, much less targeting them.

    Of course according to Hamas, there wasn't a single death from natural causes in the past two years, never mind deaths of fighters. Only women and children. Except that wasn't true.

    https://www.euronews.com/2025/04/03/hamas-run-health-ministry-quietly-removes-thousands-from-gaza-death-toll-researchers-find

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,043 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    "UN watch" is a notorious Israeli lobby group. You might as well quote Likud members.

    What Israel says privately gives the lie to it's nonsense. From august of last year -

    "Figures from a classified Israeli military intelligence database indicate five out of six Palestinians killed by Israeli forces in Gaza have been civilians, an extreme rate of slaughter rarely matched in recent decades of warfare."

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2025/aug/21/revealed-israeli-militarys-own-data-indicates-civilian-death-rate-of-83-in-gaza-war



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,396 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    But did you not read they were being used as human shields?
    There’s nothing really the IDF can do apart from shoot them all multiple times.

    Those pesky ambulances used medical workers as their human shields.

    Some, unfortunately, will never see Palestinians deaths as being of concern.

    Post edited by Rocket_GD on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,727 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Yes, that's essentially it. You would see the double standards of the Israeli apologists come to the fore if the killing of scores of Israeli civilians was justified by others on the basis that Israel was efffectively using them as a human shields by placing military bases in residental areas of Tel Aviv. The "total war" doctrine ; all "wars have collateral damage" ; " show me a war without war crimes" justifications would go out the window then. The reality is the IDF may have officially renounced the Dahiya(?) doctrine but in reality its stilll very much in use by the IDF. Why else would they continue to deliberately destroy agricultural land and other civilian infrastructure otherwise?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    But also, we already know that the profiles of those who died is mainly of teenage or adult males

    Utter rubbish. Unsurprising though as the truth doesn't supported your narrative.

    BBC (reporting UN numbers):

    • Women and Children: UN analysis of verified victims over extended periods (2024-2025) indicated that nearly 70% of those killed were women and children.
    • Children: Children are heavily represented, with studies indicating that around 30% to over 40% of victims are under 18 years old.
    • Age Profile: The ages most represented among the dead are children aged 5 to 9, with deaths reported among individuals from infants to those over 90 years old.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Given Israelis are shouting "death to Arabs", that must surely justify any and all attacks on Israel per the logic of @SeanW


    Haaretz strapline:
    Tens of thousands of Israelis, many of them teenagers, took part in the annual Jerusalem Day march through the Old City on Thursday afternoon.

    Organized by far-right groups, the so-called Flag March – commemorating Israel's capture of East Jerusalem in 1967 – has historically been marked by violence and racist chants directed at Arab residents.

    Far-right minister Itamar Ben-Gvir joined the celebrations by unfurling an Israeli flag on the Temple Mount and dancing.

    Before the march began, groups of Israeli youths harassed Palestinian residents of Jerusalem, as well as journalists and activists. Witnesses reported people spitting, shouting slogans such as "Death to Arabs" and "May your village burn," and throwing chairs and coffee at passersby in the Old City.

    In one incident, a police officer in Jerusalem's Old City pushed Haaretz journalist Linda Dayan – who was wearing a press card – after refusing her request to escort her out of the area. Teenagers and children, some appearing as young as 10, threw water and coffee at her and stole the phone of another journalist in the area, and the crowd also shouted homophobic slurs at the journalists.

    Police said 13 suspects had been detained following several violent incidents.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    Gas. @volchitsa you have consistently attributed the opposition to the mass murder/ starvation/ destruction of tens of thousands of innocent men women and children in Gaza as "antisemetic ", which does nothing only implicate all Jews, Israeli or otherwise, in a genocide that virtually all independent aid orgs / human rights groups/ international investigators etc etc are telling us is happening.

    Are we to believe your cynical misuse of a whole religion has evaporated and you are now defending Jews, rather than using them as collective human shields to cover for the crimes of wanted war criminals?

    I agree with your sentiment in this story btw - but why the change of heart? Is it because the victim is a Christian Nun and not some poor Muslim lady from Gaza?

    Post edited by Miniegg on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭wildgreen


    The theft of Palestine will haunt the Middle East until the Nakba is resolved by the return of Palestinian refugees to their homeland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭wildgreen


    Hopefully Israel will actually take a legal case against the New York Times. It would be wonderful to have Israel's sexual torture of Palestinians, detained without a charge, in prisons discussed in open court.

    "Israel" has announced it will pursue legal action against The New York Times following the publication of a column documenting widespread sexual abuse of Palestinian prisoners, in what media law experts are calling a legally baseless and politically motivated move.

    Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Foreign Minister Gideon Sa'ar jointly instructed the initiation of a defamation lawsuit against The New York Times on Thursday, targeting a column by journalist Nicholas Kristof published earlier this week.

    The two officials described the piece as among the most damaging falsehoods ever printed against Israel" in the modern press, accusing it of perpetuating a "blood libel" and drawing a false equivalence between Hamas and Israeli soldiers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭wildgreen


    Another flotilla underway.

    The Freedom Flotilla Coalition (FFC) said it is launching five vessels from a Greek island on 13 May 2026 as part of a new phase of its campaign aimed at breaking "Israel’s" naval blockade of Gaza.

    The vessels, named Adalah, Kyriakos X, Lina Al Nabulsi, Perseverance, and Tenaz Love Aqsa Bangladesh, are sailing under French, Italian, and Polish flags, according to the coalition.

    Organizers say they will be joined by around 55 additional boats that set sail from Marmaris in Turkey as part of a wider international flotilla initiative.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,043 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    More ethnic cleansing in the West Bank -

    "Rammun, occupied West Bank – Fresh off the seventh forced displacement of his central West Bank Bedouin community since 1948, Abu Najjeh was not in a contemplative mood leading up to Nakba Day. He said he was in a rush, too busy reacting to the crises of the day – the continuing “third Nakba”, as he called it.

    Just that morning, Jewish settlers had stolen hundreds of sheep and two tractors from a member of his extended family in Jiljilyya, to the north of Rammun, as well as shooting and killing 16-year-old Yousef Kaabneh – also from Abu Najjeh’s Kaabneh clan."

    https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2026/5/15/three-years-of-the-west-banks-third-nakba



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 307 ✭✭StarryPlough01


    Anti-Palestinianism

    Unlike other forms of hatred and bigotry that have been internationally recognised as the adopted policy guide, and even used by a Royal Commission, anti-palestinianism has not evolved into every day language or common usage.

    Mainstream media have marginalised Palestinian national identity under pressure from lobbying groups. They are fearful of being charged with antisemitism by these groups for adopting language and terminology that validates the struggle of Palestinians for an independent sovereign state, alongside Israel, based on the 1967 borders. It will allow the Palestinian people to determine their own future without interference from US and Israel.

    Any attempts by Israel to stymie a two state solution, with East Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine, must be a non-negotiable component of any Peace Accord.

    Peace
    Al-Salam
    Shalom.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 307 ✭✭StarryPlough01


    “Already ascendant, the Israeli far right has used the Hamas-led attack on Israel, along with the cover of Israel’s genocidal war on Gaza, to ramp up attacks on Palestinians in the West Bank and seize more land.”

    Any Peace Accord must enforce the right of return to Palestine for the displaced.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,020 ✭✭✭✭SeanW


    You may be assuming I have any interest in defending any of this. I don't. For the sake of argument (and it's not that much of a stretch) let's say I agree with you about Ben-Gvir etc and condemn the above.

    Will you in turn condemn those calling for the destruction of Israel, including chanting "From the River to the Sea, Palestine will be Free" here in the West?

    https://u24.gov.ua/
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    Help us in helping Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,043 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    What do you make of this?

    "Living Hell” follows on B’Tselem’s August 2024 report “Welcome to Hell.” Building on the extensive research and analysis carried out for the previous report, it provides updated figures and new testimonies from 21 Palestinians released from Israeli prisons in recent months, and draws on data from other Israeli and international human rights organizations. The updated information indicates that Israeli prisons continue to function as a network of torture camps for Palestinians, with the systematic abuse even more extensive than before. This includes physical and psychological abuse, inhuman conditions, deliberate starvation and denial of medical care, all of which has led to numerous deaths. Some witnesses also described undergoing or witnessing sexual violence and abuse. The transformation of prisons into a network of torture camps is part of the Israeli regime’s coordinated onslaught on Palestinian society, aimed at dismantling the Palestinian collective."

    https://www.btselem.org/publications/202601_living_hell?utm_source=ig&utm_medium=social&utm_content=link_in_bio&fbclid=IwY2xjawRwGWhleHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETFOWUZtbzZySUZMS09HUHBZc3J0YwZhcHBfaWQQMjIyMDM5MTc4ODIwMDg5MgABHjBa7rgkuOneG9SiNm4KsPOUL7uN9CrRtOcK5S74tZ96tcoZYbREZdiy98OL_aem_eWmTBnZ7Fzz1W5bdKN8piw



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,582 ✭✭✭brickster69


    There is a bit of a difference calling for the destruction of something and doing this.

    gaza.jpg

    The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters. — Antonio Gramsci



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Since this thread began, you've not once condemned Israel's attacks on civilians in Gaza, the West Bank, East Jerusalem, Lebanon and Syria. Not once.

    You've been asked multiple times to do so but never have. But it's only in the last week or so you directly stated your full throated support for Israel as "your side" (not that that was ever in doubt of course)

    You've trotted out the "death to Israel" and "from the river to the sea" shyte for over two years to justify the Genocide and War Crimes of "your side".

    There is only one actor in the ME who is carrying out their threat of taking over the region and that is Israel. You know this and yet you've blathered on and on about "existential threat" for the length of this thread when clearly, the only existential threat is to the Palestinians (and medics, journalists and aid workers of course).

    I couldn't give a hoot what you do or do not defend at this point - your posting history is clear. My history is also clear - I've answered the question you ask multiple times - a long time ago - as you (and other contributors here) well know.

    A mealy mouthed repeat of you asking me the same question ain't gonna cut the mustard. You already know the answer.

    But for the sake of argument, do you condemn, outright, Ben-Gvir?

    Simple yes or no.

    One word reply is all you need to post.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,020 ✭✭✭✭SeanW


    I note that of the last 3 posts, none have actually answered my question:

    Will you condemn calls for the destruction of Israel, including the chant "From the River to the Sea, Palestine will be free?"

    Should be a simple question.

    https://u24.gov.ua/
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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,043 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    yes though I don't believe that chant is used as a call for the destruction of Israel. Now, if you'd be as good as to answer my question in post 58915



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,020 ✭✭✭✭SeanW


    I'm not sure how else it could be interpreted - it clearly defines "Palestine" as being "From the (Jordan) River, to the (Mediterrranean) Sea. Nobody using this phrase can realistically claim to be calling for (as an example) a return to the 1967 borders (which BTW had nothing to do with "Palestine" as Egypt had the Gaza Strip and Jordan had the West Bank).

    https://u24.gov.ua/
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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,020 ✭✭✭✭SeanW


    Then maybe their Hamas rulers shouldn't have started a war.

    https://u24.gov.ua/
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