Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Farrell capped a load of guys from 2020-21. Doris, Kelleher, Sheehan, Keenan, JGP, Lowe, Hansen. Fresh talent added to the team who all developed into quality players (some world class) who contributed to some of the best ever Irish performances over the next couple of years.

Has new talent just stopped existing since then? Or has Farrell become more conservative?

So, that’s a no then

He'd started 6 games of Super Rugby when he signed for Leinster.

He was definitely second choice for his first few years at Leinster, but it wasn't clear cut by the time he was capped. But the season before he was capped he played c. 200 minutes more than McGrath and started plenty of games (including URC/Pro14 final).

This idea that "Casey gets one game a year, puts in a 7/10 performance and it's used as evidence why he can never start again" doesn't hold water IMO. Casey has 25 caps at this point, despite having missed a good chunk of time to injury over recent seasons (when he definitely would have racked up more caps). His form domestically has been patchy though this season.

If he's healthy anyway, I fully expect him to be in the squad and play good minutes in the 6N.

Doak is still very young for a guy who's racked up a lot of experience, but he's much improved this season versus the Doak of prior seasons. I expect him to be involved.

this entire debate / thread is about potential, that’s the point. It’s not hype to call one of the up & coming Leinster squad a good prospect. A year ago Sam P/ Gus McC/ Paddy Mc were in that exact same discussion. As I said before an injury or retirement can change the play dynamics very significantly

Is that not part of the point, tho? JGP was, what, 28 before he got his international debut? As far as I remember, he was elligble for the 2019 RWC squad and there were zero calls for him to be included. He was Leinster's 2nd choice scrum-half when he made his debut, which was a bit of a surprise.

I've previously suggested Casey's amount of game time was too low; for example the he only got 22 mins vs Tier 1 nations in the 2024 Autumn Internationals. This season, it was up to 31 minutes. I don't think that's enough for our 2nd choice 9 when our first choice 9 is 34 next month.

All that as part of the argument that Farrell was too conservative and we had an aging squad, and it could catch up with us.

I think it's fair to say I got considerable blow-back on that.

Essentially, on the one hand, you're not saying "we shouldn’t give others a game.". But on the other you're saying Farrell isn't conservative.

Those 2 views don't entirely align.

It's this, very obviously.

If anything - the arguments being made about JGP (and his willingness to accelerate lots of other players over the past few years) illustrate this very clearly.

What if Farrell is just hoping/praying that we find a new 9 soon who can make the step up, because he's already made his mind up on Casey?

That could well be the case but whatever way you slice it "just hoping/praying that we find a new 9" is poor succession management when the incumbent is nearly 34.

There will come a time - sooner rather than later - that we will have to new a starting 9, regardless. There could even come a time when JGP gets injured.

There's a conviction on this board that until we see a player in regular tier 1 tests, we cannot know if he's good enough

I disagree with this. My conviction is that I think Casey is good enough to have seen more gametime than he has seen previously. I feel I've seen enough of him to come to that conclusion.

Yeah. It’s just speculation but Casey has been in every squad, every tour for three years now.
It’s very possibly the case that Farrell has seen what he needs to see and doesn’t see huge value in giving him loads of minutes.

It’s very clear that Farrell has a very different perspective to a number of posters here, maybe it’s no harm to think about what that perspective might be.

If Andy is sitting around hoping and praying, rather than making the best of the hand he's been dealt, we're utterly shafted.

As for Casey not being the answer... He might not be the the answer to the question "is the back-up nine as good as I want?" but he is the answer to "who is currently the second best nine on the island?" I would have thought giving Casey minutes and experience might be the only chance of improving the situation.

Great point and but I think if people accepted this it would make this place very boring as we'd have nothing to talk about lol.

I've no issue with Casey but he's 26. My opinion, which will probably enrage some peole, is that he's not going to improve too much, even if he starts and finished the next 10 tests for Ireland. There's always the possibility he has a massive surge in form or shows an improvement in his game that warrants him challenging Park, but it certainly hasn't happened so far. You've listed out tons of players who were dropped straight in, farrell has no issue doing that if someone is good enough

If JGP gets injured or goes off a cliff before one of Doak/Murphy whoever step up, then Casey will be in and he'll be fine, but not great

Giving him minutes might not make him Antoine Dupont, but if it improved him a bit…

Andy can think all that stuff you said about Casey (and I take your point about Farrell seeing the player in training etc, in which he obviously puts a lot of stock) but at the end of the day, he has to play him when JGP is knackered or injured. Are those minutes or games he might otherwise have given to Casey improving JGP? It's not like he's trying other options.

The relevant counterpoint to every poster saying that Andy has been our best ever coach (and I'd agree) is that every coach has a shelf life. Posters are within their rights to wonder if that shelf life is running out if they think Andy is making mistakes. (That's a broader point, not really about Casey.)