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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,040 ✭✭✭50HX


    There is nothing to really suggest Farrell will give more meaningful game time to another 9.

    Outside of the Fiji game Casey got 13, 10 & 8 mins in the other 3 November games.

    I can't see any of the other available 9's being trusted with bigger minute's in the cash cow of the 6 nations



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,317 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    I can foresee no way in which this will come back to bite us in the next RWC. None.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Kenny selection over Lowe v LaR was intriguing. He's a bolter for 6N Squad. As is Ward (& Bryn!)


    Thats a good comparison. Although Keenan could always kick and was defensively excellent.

    If you were to be harsh on Kenny he did make one major error when he coughed up possession trying to run out of his 22'.

    Leinster were leading 12-10 and whilst I admire the ambition, he really should have kicked. But he's a right footer playing left wing.

    Lowe would have booted that down the pitch. And For 2 reasons.
    1. He's left footed and has the ability to launch it 70+ yards.

    2. He doesnt have the pace to run it from his 22'
    But the way Lowe has been playing of late it could have sliced off the side of his foot and gone straight to touch!

    v France: LBB v TOB, Penaud v ?

    Penaud is not very good when he gets turned and his positioning is sometimes a bit lazy.

    With no Keenan, Osborne and JOB (both left footed) for FB I wouldn't be shocked if Lowe starts v France.

    I't doesnt bare thinking about if Stockdale starts at FB and I'd be very worried if its at 11.
    Was Lowe Injured for LaR? Or was he dropped for Kenny?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,317 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Lowe was injured.

    And I think it's highly likely that Stockdale starts at 15, unless Keenan is back. Who's better and fit?



  • Administrators Posts: 56,525 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    If we can't trust players like Doak to play 30 mins at home to Wales or Italy then things are much worse than I thought.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭johnh6767


    it’s difficult to gauge a player until they’re getting regular starts so Doak & Murphy are knowns and Gunne isn’t yet and won’t be for a while given JGP (best 9 by a distance)/ Luke (most capped Leinster player) dynamics, I haven’t seen any hype but I do like what I see since the 20’s campaign and his recent cameos including the try in the URC final. Doak / Blade are good replacement options for now, albeit neither close to Casey, but in reality JGP will take all the competitive game time no different to DuPont for France, and appropriately so



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭TRC10


    With no Keenan, Osborne and JOB (both left footed) for FB I wouldn't be shocked if Lowe starts v France.

    Of course Lowe is going to start against France. I mean, he obviously shouldn’t and everyone knows it. But he’s a Farrell Favourite. He’ll only be out of the team when he retires.

    Look, we’re probably going to lose the game by 30 points. May as well do it while blooding some new players and developing a more expansive game that might allow us to actually compete at the RWC instead of being the sh*tty Bok knockoff that we are now which will inevitably lead to us going out in the quarters (again). Ward and Kenny on the wings please and a 13 who’ll actually pass them the pall.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭johnh6767


    yes and they’re a lot better than the 22-25 year old versions of themselves too, it’s experience and game time



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    LHP is a real cause of concern - Paddy McCarthy's injury described in the Leinster update as a "significant foot injury" which probably means a break, and reports of Porter potentially out for 8 weeks or so.

    Big opportunity for Jack Boyle, Michael Milne, Jeremy Loughman etc.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,849 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Boyle is also injured though…less serious but who knows



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,997 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    This is essentially it.

    Fans love to see new talent explode onto the scene. Gushing predictions follow (+ accusations of overhype).

    The reality is that most players develop over time, esp gametime. As the standard of competition goes up the new talent gets exposed & they make errors they didn't previously (cue the explosion of 'I told you so' from some). Some talent hit their ceiling early and don't continue to improve. Some do continue to improve & their error rate drops. There will still be errors & poor form and calls for them to be replaced by the latest fan favourite. Ireland need options in every position, but particularly at 9. Casey, Doak, Gunne or Murphy may not ever reach JGP levels but we'll never know 'til we play them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭johnh6767




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    He's in the training photographs today. I'm reasonably hopeful he plays for Leinster on the weekend, he should definitely be ready for the 6N I think (absent a setback or fresh injury).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    I take every bit of 'team news' from Leinster with a LARGE pinch of salt.

    'Neck Injury'? I wouldn't be surprised if he was dropped. Or just rested. He has looked way off it.

    If Keenan is back that would be a huge boost. If he's not I'd stick Shane Daly in at FB.

    I'll say this for James Lowe - he has never let Ireland down.

    He's always played well v France and was badly missed in the game last year.

    At 33 your days as an International winger are usually numbered. He role within this team never really was for his pace on the edges. It was as a playmaker, link man (offloads), power carrier/finisher and booming left foot.

    The Maxim - There is no substitute for pace - Is somewhat true, but there is allot more to playing wing at the very highest Test standard than that.

    Kenny and Ward are exciting players. It would be unfair to throw them into a starting role v France.

    v FRANCE:

    Keenan (or JOB or Daly or Frawley), TOB, Ringrose, SMcC, Lowe (or JOB or Ward or Kenny)

    v FRANCE 2027 ? To your point about RWC - It cant be James Lowe. It better not be anyway!

    I would be all for Zac Ward starting v Italy and Wales.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Considering its France and its also English officials I'd be happy if it was Paddy Mc and Boyle for the scrum.

    edit - just see post about PMcC injury. Thats bad news



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    It won't be Paddy Mc by the sounds of Leinster's injury update and the images of him coming off on Saturday. A "significant foot injury" - I think he possibly has a broken foot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,317 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    All reasonable enough.

    Personally, though, there's no way I'm starting JOB or Daly at 15 ahead of Stockdale. Frawley I can see people would make a case for - he wasn't great at 15 earlier in the season, but has improved. (Stockdale has been markedly better but I wouldn't waste my time quibbling. I know people have a narrative about Stockdale.)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    I think Stockdale has definitely earned the right to be at the front of that queue right now; his form has been good, he's experienced and has been around the squad (which might matter if we were going to elevate some inexperienced guys) and he brings something different to our backline.

    I expect it to be Keenan though; he'll likely play against Connacht in Galway at the end of the month and then come back for France.

    I would love to see Zac Ward and JJ Kenny in the wider squad though in some context or another (development players or whatever), and would love to see one of them play some minutes in this tournament.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,317 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    And assuming he comes back in full fitness, no-one can compete with Keenan. Be delighted to have him back.

    Would be fantastic to see Ward in the squad and Kenny in the training squad. I assume Gleeson and Edogbo will get their opportunities again in the squad - didn't both miss out in the AI due to injury? Presumably Farrell still wants a look.

    I'd say potentially the greatest room for a shake-up is at centre. Henshaw was very good against La ROGelle, but that seems to be the exception rather than the rule these days, and I'd be disappointed if Andy now acts like we haven't all been watching him clearly decline. Bundee seems pretty shot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,348 ✭✭✭bingobango12


    With Osbourne out I think Henshaw gets in. But it’s definitely McCloskeys starting jersey. Ringrose gets in. Hoping it’s Gavin or Hume also. Aki is done unfortunately so hope they can just realise that and no do the usual of naming someone in a squad until they retire.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    TBF to Henshaw, he was okay for Ireland in the autumn too. He's had some very poor performances this season, but I don't think he's fully done either. He has a lot of miles on the clock but he's 10 months younger than the guy who I hope would start at 12 (Stuart McCloskey). He put in some excellent hits on Saturday night and had a lot of good involvements, beyond finishing his try well.

    I don't see him being jettisoned at this point. Bundee might be though - his form is poor, he's soon to turn 36 and his legs look gone. At some point you just have to call it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭TRC10


    I'll say this for James Lowe - he has never let Ireland down.

    Brian O’Driscoll and Paul O’Connell never let Ireland down. Doesn’t mean they should still be starting for Ireland. Enough of the sentimentality that’s held Ireland back since forever. James Lowe is past it. It’s not a slight on the guy. Brilliant player on his day but his days are done. He’s a 33 year old winger. It happens. Move on.

    People say Kenny and Ward are prone to mistakes. Sorry, but did these people watch James Lowe during his first few caps for Ireland??? He was a making some absolute howlers. At least one glaring error per game. But he improved. Sooner or later you have to back a guy. And persisting with Lowe is just kicking the can down the road



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,049 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Henshaw absolutely will be in the squad, he's a proven player in good form, why would we not include him? Based on the Autumn and subsequent, McCloskey is in pole for 12, Ringrose at 13 and I'd stake my considerable reputation on Henshaw wearing the 23 jersey in Paris.

    If Keenan doesn't make it back, we absolutely should go with Stockdale at 15. JOB is a grand player but nothing like the potential upside of Stockdale.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,622 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    What upside has Stockdale shown? He is what he is, he's not going to start playing above where he is at now. I think it's absolute madness to have Henshaw in the 23. Just repeating the same mistakes as every second term coach in the pro era. Just move on already.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 360 ✭✭big-al


    Murphy, Devine and Gunne are poor kickers and can’t really control the tempo of a game.


    they are one demensional, albeit that one dimension is paying at high tempo etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,348 ✭✭✭bingobango12


    I agree with you, but unless you go with Blade (apparently injured) or Luke McGrath, there’s nobody else for that third 9 spot. I’d rather one of the younger three named and train with the squad than Blade again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭TRC10


    they are one demensional, albeit that one dimension is paying at high tempo etc.

    This wasn’t an issue for Farrell when he first brought JGP into the team



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,724 ✭✭✭ersatz


    I can't see Henshaw being jettisoned, much as I can't see Bundi starting again. Agree with @TRC10 above, Lowe got a mountain of sh*t from fans for how awful his defence was when he first started for Irleand (and Leinster) but the investment was worth it. With Kenny and Ward you have 2 guys who need experience but seem to have all the attributes to make a massive contribution. No worries on that front. You could say the same for Sam P, and it hasn't put Leinster or Ireland off playing him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,348 ✭✭✭bingobango12


    I now see Gavin is out for 3 months, so a real possibility we see Henshaw McCloskey Ringrose and Aki named again. Really hopeful he goes Hume instead of Aki.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,317 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    I can't see Hume being called up. He's a better 13 than Postlethwaite, but I don't think Andy's interested.



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