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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭TRC10


    I don't think there's any question marks about whether Stewart has played more and put in markedly better performances than McCarthy - we'll see if Andy cares.

    I’d be amazed if Stewart isn’t there. McCarthy’s elevation was largely down to Stewart being injured, but he’s playing regularly this season and putting in really good performances. Im fairly confident he’ll be in the 6N squad.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Oh I've no doubt he will be. But we always have four hookers in the wider squad and my question is whether he'll rise to third in the pecking order.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭TRC10


    But we always have four hookers in the wider squad

    Pretty sure it’s always 3 hookers. It was in November anyway



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    We'd four in last years' Six Nations squad. The three Leinster fellas and Herring.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,626 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    might be a blessing in disguise, force Farrell to address the stodginess in the centres and try players with a bit of spark about them.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,475 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Stewart, Izuchwuku, Timoney, McCloskey and Stockdale is my guess for the Ulster contingent. Henderson is maybe 50/50 but with McCarthy back and the fact he didn't feature in the 23 against SA I think it's questionable.

    The likes of Zac Ward, Postlethwaite and maybe James Hume have a chance as does Tom O'Toole, but my guess is they'll miss out. David McCann should be considered but Farrell has shown zero interest up to now and its a very competitive area.

    I think the Irish backline needs a bit of a refresh or an injection of something different and I honestly believe Zac Ward (Shayne Bolton is another possibility) could provide that, although realistically he would in camp and unlikely to play if he is selected.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Henderson should be gone. The only possible reason he might be retained is the obvious lack of leadership in this Irish side, but I'd be genuinely shocked to see him in the 6N squad. And that's fair. I'd also be amazed to see Hume anywhere near the side. Not because of how he's playing but I think Farrell has made up his mind about him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,475 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    The reason I mentioned Hume is that I actually think Postlethwaite should be in there, but Hume is still getting picked ahead of him for Ulster. Not that Farrell is averse to picking second choice players at a province.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,056 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    I would be surprised to see Hume called up, he had a few runs with the senior squad a while back and never seemed to progress. Postlethwaite getting the call would be more likely IMO.

    That said, with the Paris game and the A game in Limerick within 24 hours of each other, pretty much every able-bodied IQ player is in some form of contention for action. It will be interesting to see if they name separate squads or have a 50-man battle royale to cover both games.

    It's five weeks away and there has been no news on Keenan so Stockdale is in pole position to play FB in Paris, Frawley is the only other option and I'd much rather see Stockdale.

    Assuming no more injuries, I'd predict:

    Stockdale

    TOB Ringrose McCloskey Lowe

    SP/JC JGP

    Porter Sheehan Furlong

    Ryan McCarthy

    Beirne Doris VDF



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 182 ✭✭Jelly Welly




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 360 ✭✭big-al


    postlewaithe isn’t as good as Hume.

    Personally, Hume is the most gifted and skillfull centre Ulster have, his handling and ability to create space/pass to his back 3 is tremendous and he is a very good defender in his own right.

    You need to remember that he has had 2 or 3 seasons badly affected by injury, and by his own admission was a bit too heavy. He was over 100kg there for a good while, and how looks much sharper having come down to 95kg.


    a quality centre.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 208 ✭✭longjohn200


    I think it was the New Zealand tour where Hume was involved and picked up a bad injury. A couple of injuries since then have definitely stalled his development, but over the last two years he’s been working his way back into good form. I think Postlewaite best position is at 12 and Hume is the better 13.

    Sam will not start against France. Too many unforced errors recently and momentum is with Harry Bryne. Team on the money otherwise.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,056 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    I’m not saying Hume shouldn’t be picked, just that I don’t think Farrell will.

    Postlethwaite can come in as a developmental player, Hume realistically needs injuries and for Ireland to decide that Tom Farrell isn’t worth persisting with. It’s a big ask.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,475 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Postlethwaite isn't as good a 13 as Hume but his best position is 12 and he curreny sits behind McCloskey who is probably the starting Irish 12, however he can play 13 better than Hume can play 12 which is important because l if you're looking for someone to bring into the Ireland squad I think it's Postlethwaite over Hume. Of course it might be neither, it could be Hugh Gavin or Dan Kelly.

    But I agree with you completely on Hume's abilities, he is very underrated outside Ulster, but then injuries and Ulster's struggles are probably the reason for that. A big game against Nankivill and Kelly tonight will go a long way to bringing him into the conversation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,475 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    I'm reluctant to say this as who knows where it will lead but it is mad that we have absolutely zero idea who will start at 10 against France.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 208 ✭✭longjohn200




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭50HX


    After a solid yet unspectacular spell on piano last season Byrne didnt even make the summer tour just gone.

    He's played well enough this season & has been backed as the starting 10 away from home for Leinster as it looks like they are doubling down on the solidity of defense esp when away from home.

    Crowley is probably a better 10 on both defense & attacking with ball.Byrne is a better place & touchline kicker this season so far.

    I can't see any scenario outside of injury where Farrell bins Prendergast out of the 23 consistently from here on...17 games to RWC

    I suspect it'll be tried & trusted in Paris with minimal changes outside of injury enforced.

    The current 10's will be in sitiu imo with Crowley probably starting at 10 away from home & SP to pick up the starting spots at home



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,044 ✭✭✭johnh6767


    Andy Farrell is not erratic in his decision making and doesn’t take as much lead from the provincials as many would expect. He made a call to back Sam in the last 6N and despite the drop off in form / over exertion he will continue to with that backing I think. Byrne will be the 3rd option though and all 3 will get game time as it’s still quite a journey to RWC27 with multiple scenarios yet to play out in URC/ Europe for each of these players



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Indeed, I think he's looking at the current game plan of most teams, which has been forced on everyone by the rules changes, and picking the players based on that. SPs kicking game is clearly better (although he's also capable of some stinkers), and while his defensive frailties are there, Farrell definitely sees the positives more than the negatives.

    Pretty sure it'll be SP and Crowley interchanging.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 208 ✭✭longjohn200


    The form of provincial weighs heavenly on selection. The best team in the league for the past decade has been leinster and that is reflected in selection to date.

    Farrell is in the game of winning - not loyalty. If Sam is not performing and ireland are not winning, he most certainly will be dropped.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭50HX


    😁😁 tell that to Tom Farrell...the form centre in Ireland last season.

    Soroka is my form 6 this season...will be interesting to see if he gets a shot



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,730 ✭✭✭ersatz


    Clearly Farrell sees loyalty as an important component of building team spirit and its a big part of his management style. The retirement stuff with POM, Murray and Healy was a highly choreographed example of it, there are numerous others. It's not necessarily a bad thing and he must see the value in it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 208 ✭✭longjohn200


    If ireland were putting in poor performances and losing games, It would be different. 100%



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 208 ✭✭longjohn200


    Tom farrell deserved his shot no doubt. Similarly to mcclockey had to bide his time. Needs to keep performing, hasn't been exceptional over the last number of weeks though

    Any time I've seen soroka he was average. Not the quickest and was anonymous against ulster in he first half. Reminds me of Dominic Ryan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,730 ✭✭✭ersatz


    Ireland have been putting in mediocre performances and losing games since the WC.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 208 ✭✭longjohn200


    80% win percentage in both six nations is not bad in fairness.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,730 ✭✭✭ersatz


    Trend is going in the wrong direction, and beating France and England is what matters if we are serious about being a top team, SA and NZ similarly. Anyway, results are largely irrelevant to the management style of the coach. He either believes loyalty is important in team building or he has a more transactional approach where results are everything, Farrell is very much the former.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 365 ✭✭letsbefair


    Easy to knock from the ditch, he picked Ringrose over Farrell. I think he is entitled to do so on form. We have punched well above our weight with him as coach. Who would you make the coach if you are so unhappy with him ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,730 ✭✭✭ersatz


    I'm very happy with Farrell, Im just making the argument that he does prioritise loyalty more than some other coaches might. Again, thats not a bad thing. Punching above our weight, whatever. New Zealand punch above their weight too, but that plays no part in their mindset. Ireland is fortunate to have many advantages when it comes to pro rugby, in my view we aren't punching above our weight but making the most of our resources. And there will always be an asterisk beside the entry of any coach who can't get us past a 1/4 in the world cup. That's punching below our weight.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,018 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Disagree. I think there's heavy bias towards the tried and trusted players over the form players. If Henshaw suddenly started playing as well as he currently plays, he wouldn't get within an ass' roar of the squad, let alone the team. But he's in the squad regardless of how well he's playing.

    I think Farrell only got called to the squad because of public opinion in the weeks preceeding it. He had one average performance and he'll settle onto the Nick Timony role of playing a game against a second tier team for a year or 2 and be phased out. Meanwhile Henshaw is continually included while putting in average performances.

    I think Farrell has been brilliant for Ireland. But now I think he's entered a phase where he's picking his favourites rather than picking the team to win games. I think he believes his favourites are most likely to win rather than the most in-form players.

    We'll see how it works out.



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