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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,626 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Toulouse also have players with pace, to threaten breaks, particularly in the 10 12 13 channel. We're so slow across the board, we really struggle at the moment. McCloskey has been great, but guys weren't reading him to take advantage of those half breaks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 208 ✭✭longjohn200


    Not sure I can separate the four of them either. They’re all in the same bracket for me. But I’d still want someone in there who can kick.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,329 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,054 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Baloucoune and Stockdale cannot play the same position. It’s like saying I’d have Clarkson ahead of Porter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭TRC10


    A winger playing on the opposite side is completely different to a prop scrummaging on the other side. Hence why you see one pretty often, and the other very rarely. Not the same thing whatsoever.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,626 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I see this stated, and I can appreciated the value of "footedness" as it pertains to the positions, but I can't buy that that it's some drastically different prospect to play on the other wing. We see wingers tracking across in attack all the time, doesn't seem to inhibit them unduly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,863 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    From memory, Earls used appear at 11 or 14 for club and country... did Dave Kearney too or am I misremembering?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,472 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Pretty sure Trimble played both sides as well.

    But then Horgan and Bowe played the vast majority of their Ireland games at 14 and Hickie the same at 11. And going back to the original point I struggle to remember Stockdale ever playing 14.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,541 ✭✭✭✭phog


    I think Zebo used to swap over too at times.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,490 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Is that not what Leinster said before moving AP to LH?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,054 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Porter was always a loosehead, the move was to TH. That he was able to do it so successfully (and then go back again) was an amazing achievement but he’s the exception, not the rule.

    The original point was about Stockdale who never plays right and Baloucoune who never plays left, the majority of modern wings are one or the other.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,280 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    These days, England seem spoiled for choice in the back three compared to us, especially at wing. So many young prospects are coming through.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,306 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    900 professional players versus 160.

    You'd really expect England to have much more choice per position than Ireland.

    Yet we almost always punch above our weight in international rugby.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,368 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    I'd argue that there are some good prospects coming through the provinces right now, albeit they've arrived through non-traditional pathways. Shayne Bolton looks the pick of them right now. He's a IQ power winger in the mould of Lowe, but is just 25 and is far quicker than the latter now. Doesn't have the passing or kicking game but is a good finisher. Capped twice for Ireland and I hope to see him get plenty more.

    Zac Ward looks a promising player as well. He's a bit older at 27 and from the Sevens circuit. Very unorthodox and whenever I watch him I've no idea what he's going to do next. But so entertaining to watch.

    JJ Kenny at Leinster looks like he might have something about him too. He's another Sevens convert who was offered an academy spot after impressing there and in the AIL. He's only 22 and has plenty of time for improvement. Made an encouraging start with 5 tries in 4 appearances to date. Looks to have usurped a few more heralded Leinster academy graduates.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,306 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Not sure you get the point of my post.

    England can be "spoiled for choice" (for their 23) because they have 22 professional players starting every weekend in every position, whereas we have 4 players.

    So it's absolutely no surprise that they see more options coming through in every position.

    The best 23 for every country can only be 23 players, regardless of playing numbers.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,306 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Who is assessing any national side here??

    I've said that Ireland punch well above their weight at test level when considering the limited resources we have.

    All I was doing was highlighting that England obviously would have more choices due to their playing numbers, and that choice is actually and clearly reflected at test level.

    For example in the last 6 years (Jan 20 to Dec 25) Ireland have capped 49 players.

    In that same time period England have capped 65 players.

    France, they've capped 78 players in that period.

    New Zealand, with a similar number of pro clubs as Ireland and a similar selection policy, have capped 46 players in that period.

    "Quantity" is certainly reflected in options, which in turn is reflected in choice at test level.

    Post edited by sydthebeat on


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,490 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Stockdale is playing FB regularly at the moment. Is that an easier switch than left to right wing? I honestly don't know, I've never played in the backs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,232 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    With this in mind - is there an argument for encouraging more Irish players to move over to England - it would deepen the base of Irish professional players.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,306 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    No, because the IRFU do not want to be competing with another jurisdiction in regards to wages. Plus they wouldn't get the control over the players workload that they do currently.

    From a player progression point of view, yes it completely makes sense. From a viability point of view, no it doesn't. There has been talks over the years of the IRFU taking a controlling stake in an English club to use as a nursery for Irish players, not I don't think the money is there to do that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,232 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    OK I see the point - notwithstanding this, if I am on a provincial contract with Connacht for example, and I dont see myself making the Irish team - would I be better off financially heading for England? And also - if I did head to England/ Britain and started doing well, would I then have a better chance of making the Irish team. Tadhg Beirne is the only one really I can think of who went down this route in recent years. He wasnt capped while he was playing in Wales - IRFU had a lucky escape here because if he had gone on to play for Wales…..



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭TRC10


    IRFU had a lucky escape here

    I mean, yes they avoided a very embarrassing scenario. But it wasn’t “lucky”. They acted a year before he qualified for Wales, brought him back to Munster and capped him the summer of 2018 before he’d even arrived at Munster. And Ireland was always his first choice. So it wasn’t really lucky. They handled it very well actually.

    But yes, it would be very tough if he’d been a Wales player the last 7 years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,975 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Honestly it depends on where your head is at.

    If you want to play for Ireland you have to play here.

    If you are looking at your long term future and financial well-being then heading to France or England is the way to go.

    If I was that age now and knowing what I know as an old man I'd go abroad.

    I love the Ireland rugby team but on a personal level I'd take the money.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,541 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Huge difference between a fan loving the Irish team and an employee trying to make a living and plan for the future of their family.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 208 ✭✭longjohn200


    From an Ulster perspective, based on current form, I’d expect to see the following in the next Six Nations squad: McCloskey, Izzy (Henderson), Ward (Hansen), Stockdale, Stewart (McCarthy), O’Toole (Boyle), Wilson (Bealham), McCann (Baird), Timoney, Doak (Blade) and Hume (Henshaw). I’d imagine Postlethwaite and Murphy would be named in the development group.

    Aside from Harry Byrne & Edogbo who else across the provinces has really been putting their hand up?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭dublin49


    I remember back in circa 1999,the Irish Independent printed a Sunday spread on a young fella I had barely heard of,it was a big article on BOD,it seemed premature as this was pre Paris,but those in the know knew.I remember a similiar if more subdued excitement about the new kid in Munster with huge hands,Leamy,and then a bit of that around Heaslip and Ferris.

    Cian Healy was well flagged as well as a prodigy,but not many lately.

    The Prendergasts,Crowleys,Bairds,can only be the best version of themselves that is possible.

    Sometimes the bar for these guys is set by generational players like Sexton,O 'Connell,Wallace et all.

    This is where a lot of unreasonable expectation emanates from,the next guy up should at least be as good as the previous one or two and preferably better.

    It dont work like that ,the All Blacks or the Boks beat us and we need an inquest.FFS.

    Rugby is the only team sport we are a real player in on the the world stage.We are respected,feared ,and admired.

    Maybe going into 2026 we can be thankful for the past 25 years and a bit more proportionate with our criticisms of our national team.

    Happy New year to you all.

    Post edited by dublin49 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,563 ✭✭✭OldRio


    The most sensible post of 2025 by a large margin. Thank you again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,472 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Yeah, but they edited it at 1.18am so I'm not sure it qualifies!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,563 ✭✭✭OldRio


    Boooo. Down with this sort of thing. We need a ruling.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,368 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Stuart Lancaster is unsure if Hansen will return before the end of the season. Continues his disastrous run of injuries and puts Ireland in a bind for the Six Nations. We do have some options at 14 at least. None of them come close to matching Mack's creativity playmaking ability, but at least we know they can do a decent job at test level.

    But we desperately need Keenan to be available soon. His quality in the back three is needed. January was the month given for his return. Hopefully he's back shortly.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,329 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Really can't see it. Whoever I think deserves a crack, I'd say Andy will call up McCloskey, Izzy, Stockdale and Timoney. Apart from them, the strongest cases I think are Stewart and Postlethwaite.

    I don't think there's any question marks about whether Stewart has played more and put in markedly better performances than McCarthy - we'll see if Andy cares.

    O'Toole's form is noticably better this season - I don't know that he's done enough to unseat Clarkson given Andy's emphasis on loyalty.

    Postlethwaite and Ward have been training members of squads before, so Andy has been curious enough to bring them in. McCann, Wilson and Doak have featured for the As/ Ireland XVs or Emerging Ireland. I don't think he's interested in McCann for whatever reason. Really great player, no real USP though. Doak's kicking saved a lot of blushes in Ireland A versus England A last year, but hasn't been called up to the senior squad. Wilson has been fantastic in the loose since he first broke through but does need to improve in the scrum. Does he have more work to do on that than Clarkson? Arguably not, but we'll see.



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