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Offshore wind development, needed but govt has head in the sand about fines for failing on emissions

  • 06-11-2025 10:24AM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39


    https://www.irishtimes.com/environment/climate-crisis/2025/11/06/why-is-the-government-playing-chicken-on-climate-with-europe/



«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,731 ✭✭✭✭con747


    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,608 ✭✭✭SteM


    I can read the whole article and I'm not a subscriber. Is it not showing up for you?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,731 ✭✭✭✭con747


    You only get a couple of free articles a week unless you subscribe.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39 snowdaisy


    Sorry not sure how else to show it, usually a couple of free articles for non subscribers



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,180 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 96,617 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Government to hit ‘nuclear button’ granting itself emergency powers to solve infrastructure crisis

    So they may be getting the finger out.

    One way to think of the potential fines is as zero cost funding for infrastructure because you'll have to spend the billions one way or another.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,518 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Government has its head in the sand and it needs to consider nuclear.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 96,617 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    We need power before we get fined and we need something that can actually reduce emissions.

    Nuclear can't do either.

    [RANT]

    In the first 15 years from it's original start date Flamanville 3 will be lucky to produce the equivalent of 1 year's worth of electricity.

    In 2002 France started the ball rolling on a new nuclear power plant with an expected delivery date of 2012. The design was the latest in a series of 200MW-300MW incremental upgrades of the previous French designs coupled with the safety systems of German reactors which have had some of the highest cumulative outputs of any reactors. So you'd imagine it would be very low risk.

    • It was connected to the grid last year (only just - 21st December)
    • It's had outages and still hasn't got to full power yet.
    • It will go offline for at least 50 weeks in September for repairs.

    Oh and the cost ballooned from €3.3B to €20Bn (not including inflation)

    Even if we could get nuclear tomorrow, the spinning reserve requirements for nuclear means it can't ever deliver emission savings so there is no role for nuclear. You need to replace 75% of power of the largest generator on the grid within 5 seconds. (Last year the US had an average of just over one SCRAM for every two reactors.) At present the only way to provide that much power is by running gas turbines inefficiently at lighter load, burning gas 24/7 (If you used another reactor as spinning reserve you then have the problem of how to get rid of a lot of surplus electricity without depressing prices)

    Renewables too would need spinning reserve but would only need 1/4 of it 1/4 of the time due to smaller generating units and not needing it if there's sufficient wind or solar online. And some of it could probably be done with batteries.

    You also need to be able to replace nuclear power for a month or two every 18-24 months when down for refuelling and maintenance. ( ie longer than any Dunkelflaute )

    And nuclear can't do peaking either so it needs support in that role.

    In theory you could use storage and biomass and biogas to handle the spinning reserve/backup/peaking but that would allow renewables to take over.

    [/RANT]



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30 tppytoppy


    Ireland is just coming out of a dunklelflaute from the last few days. Near zero solar generation and very little coming from wind. See www.smartgriddashboard.com



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    Not for the first time;

    No renewables = permanent Dunkelflaute. Grid fossil fuelled all year round.

    Just give 20% of your wages directly to Putin.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30 tppytoppy


    Thankfully the grid had the interconnectors feeding in during this period.

    There are plenty of other suppliers of oil, gas and coal along with Nuclear over interconnectors so the comment about giving money to Putin doesn't stand up to scrutiny.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    Yes it does, despite being clearly tongue in cheek. Only a moron would take it literally.

    It's a commodity market. If an entire country increases their gas consumption by 50% all year round you can expect price inflation. Which benefits all oil and gas producers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    I have a small solar array at home. It still provided 16% of the peak household demand over the last week. That's 16% less in Putin's pocket. 😀



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30 tppytoppy


    You are grasping in an effort to justify the huge expense borne by the citizens of Ireland for an extremely expensive renewables based grid.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty




  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 96,617 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    image.png

    OMG! Dunkelflaute was so bad that (excluding hydro and biomass and biogas and the incinerators and the CHP and any demand shedding) we were getting nearly 50% of our power from the other renewables and imports.

    And that's 50% out of a very, very hard limit of 75%

    I'd image we'd have done better if the Celtic interconnector was finished. And our installed wind is still below maximum demand so it's still early days on our renewables rollout.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,456 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    Also given Irelands deep and abiding love of wind (of both the meteorological and verbal varieties) should we not have a nice home grown word for 'no wind today lads' instead of borrowing borrowing from the Germans? "Nilaongaoithe" anyone?

    Boards is in danger of closing very soon, if it's yer thing, go here (use your boards.ie email!)

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30 tppytoppy


    What is the cost of the interconnector to FrAnce. 1.6 billion. But it is supposedly the key to tapping a fortune in electricity exports. That is one of many interconnectors supplying Ireland and if Putin decides to use his shadow fleet to drag an anchor or two across them then we are literally powerless to do anything about it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,919 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,919 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Someone I know did 24kWh on solar with around 15 standard panels on the roof yesterday. Himself and his next door neighbour did 57kWh. Not a Dunkelflaute really. Maybe that's "gan CeoGanGaoth"…



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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 96,617 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    snsp4.png

    If we had twice as much green tech as we do now then your "Dunkelflaute" would look like this.

    Green being non-synch and that straw coloured area would include dispatchable renewables and demand shedding.

    And we can use a decreasing amount of natural gas until 2050.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 96,617 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    As you say "one of many".

    We are in the EU so common defence and there's the $200Bn of Russian funds currently frozen. And we are interconnected with UN Security Council members who have nuclear weapons and are #1 and #2 on the "countries that won the most wars" list.

    €1.6bn is essentially zero cost compared to the €20Bn fine we could face for not decarbonising.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    Interconnectors allow us to get nuclear energy by the back door, so they're a good thing aren't they?

    We also have gas interconnection so that could be blown up by Putin / CIA. That issue is common to both energy types and doesn't add any weight to anti renewable arguments.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,068 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    To emphasise your first point: Interconnectors are the only commercially viable way for Ireland to use nuclear energy.

    And the bonus is that we can push our surplus wind energy back down that link to offset the cost of previous imports; not something we can really do with our gas interconnectors.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 473 ✭✭pjdarcy


    Good luck trying to get planning for a nuclear reactor in Ireland. Any local NIMBY group would drag it through the courts for at least a decade.

    Just look at how the locals in south county Dublin have reacted to the possibility of an offshore wind farm being created 10 km off the coast of south county Dublin/north Wicklow. They'd be less up in arms if the government tried to install a halting site on the Vico road!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    Great point.

    And yet the cabal suffering from Renewables Derangement Syndrome cite interconnectors as a huge negative. As if nuclear power plants somehow supply electricity to the grid without interconnectors 🙄🙄



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,786 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    luckily, generations have formed a phrase - Níl smid ann - anglicised as 'a wee smidgen'



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,550 ✭✭✭orangerhyme


    Is that a lot?

    Could you produce enough energy for your needs for maybe 6 months of the year if you'd a big enough battery?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,180 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    I have 15 panels facing east/west and my bills are effectively negative for the summer months. Obviously that depends on feed-in-tariff remaining high which is not guaranteed. Countries with a lot of rooftop solar have phased out FIT and some now charge you to feed back to the grid at sunny times. In which case batteries become a more economical option, which also allows you to take advantage of variable smart-tariffs.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,550 ✭✭✭orangerhyme


    I'm just curious as my neighbour has 14 panels, a heat pump and upgraded his house with external insulation and other things. I'm guessing it's A-rated now. He also drives a Tesla.

    So after a big investment, his outgoings must be very little in terms of fuel, electricity.

    So if you've enough money to invest, you can live much cheaper in the long run. It's like the Terry Pratchett boots analogy.

    Not sure if he has a battery though. I don't know him but I might ask him if I see him.



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