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Holly Cairns - 'Sinn Fein policies aren't left wing'

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,081 ✭✭✭almostover


    You're correct, there's good chance that the combined left + SF could have more TDs than FF + FG in the next election. But the left + SF are really going to struggle to coalesce to form a government.

    My money is on a FF + SF government with FF returning to a more populist position post the reign of MM. Will likely lead to economic damage but I think there's a decent chnace of that government happening.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,300 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    I agree. There is no way the parties on the left wont be able to form a stable government. The first difference and one of the parties would be gone especially if you include the likes of PBP in the coalition.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,215 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30118126

    Environment Minister Alan Kelly said charges would be capped at 160 euros (£128) for single adult households and 260 euros (£208) for others.

    Announcing the revised measures, he told parliament: "We now have a choice of short-term emotion and anger or long-term prudence and common sense."

    Afraid not. They were capped.

    There was a thing where if you didn't pay water would be reduced to a trickle but not turned off. Is that what you're thinking of?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,178 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    Well the unenforced law at the moment is that the gov could charge for excess use. https://legalblog.ie/water-charges-abrogated/#Charges_Abolished



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,337 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    If PBP get in it will be like North Korea just with Internet.

    EVENFLOW



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,300 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    They will never get in. Everyone knows that they would walk out of government as soon as something doesn't go their way and would be difficult to work with.

    Oh I'm wouldn't be so sure, I'd say they would have everyone dress the same and be as miserable as they are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,860 ✭✭✭mikethecop


    PBP ? more chance of the monster raving loony party getting in across the water,

    a sideshow collection of the unemployable and unwashed , in fact anyone taking them seriously should be looked at with pity and suspicion



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,300 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    But this is the problem that the left have, they can't form a government with ff or fg unless they have the PBP. It is stupid of these parties to even think they can govern without either ff or fg.

    I have no time for the likes of PBP or that other gowl Coppinger. The most miserable people on earth and trying to drag the rest of us into that misery with them, probably even then they wouldn't be happy and would have to be more miserable



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,860 ✭✭✭mikethecop




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,024 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Michael Martin hates Cairns because she makes mince meat out of him at every Leaders Questions. She just destroyed him on the housing disaster. He couldn't answer any questions as usual.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,088 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    If Holly Cairns knows all the answers to the housing problem, she should take herself from Schull in west Cork off to Australia or America or the south of England or Germany or anywhere else in the world, because as far as I can see no country in the world can provide top class affordable accommodation, with triple glazing etc, for all its citizens. She could make a fortune as a consultant on housing.

    West Cork's loss would be some other countries gain.

    Nb. As she is left wing, maybe we could send her to North Korea on a fact finding mission with CC? Whoever organized the fact finding trip to Syria - we never found out who - could maybe organize it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,024 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Actually she had plenty of ideas. The SDs have produced several papers on housing and made amendments to legislation. She laid them out in Leaders Questions today and outlined the ones that that government had voted down. For example increasing the vacant homes tax from its current meaningless tiny amount. They took in 1.6m in 2024 - an absolute joke of an incentive to sell or take in tenants. Listen back to Leaders Questions today. Just a reminder, the FFG caused the Housing Crisis. They caused it and are not inclined to fix it.

    Don't run short of lemons re President Connolly. 😉

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,088 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    How much money would she like to raise from the vacant property tax and would you say that will be enough to solve the housing crises?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,024 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Read my post. It was one of many measures. The VHT currently is just a meaningless gesture with zero impact. There are 160,000 vacant properties in Ireland. FFG do not want to tax their voters. The SDs have a full housing policy if you want to read more.

    Guess what, the SD aren't in power. They are 10 years old as a party. FFG caused all the housing disaster.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,740 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    A full housing policy is silly. You need a degree of vacancy. Also its highly unlikely much of that vacancy is anywhere useful. I hope she had better ideas than increasing the VHT cause, while I have no issue with the idea, it will be utterly marginal.

    It is impossible to square this being all FF/FGs fault and orchestrated by them with this also being a near universal first world problem. Suggested solutions that don't acknowledge that reality are unlikely to be well reasoned.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,740 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Also with the number of people the govt is supposedly terrified of because of how much they destroy them in the Dáil it is a miracle they have a job

    Cairns is right about SF though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,088 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    I am not a massive fan of everything FF and FG have done, but I will say they made an economic miracle in rescuing the country from the IMF/EU/British troika 15 years ago, and the economic growth since them meant hundreds of thousands of extra jobs and immigration. The price of housing depends on supply and demand. Would Holly Cairns and the left prefer if the country was still on its knees and everyone emigrating like in 2009?

    She should look at lefty places like East Germany before the wall came down or North Korea.

    She is lucky to live in Schull.

    If the government wants to bring down the price of housing / make it more plentiful, it could start by not charging vat like they do in the UK for example.

    Here, if you paid for example €454,000 (including VAT) for your new house, this is made up of the base price of €400,000 plus 13.5% VAT (€54,000). It can be done, in the UK there is no vat on new houses. Maybe we are too much a socialist state?It is estimated there are about 207 state agencies, and 800 quasi-autonomous non-governmental organizations (quangos) that clog up governance.

    .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,024 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Hold on a sec, it was Leaders Questions. Martin wouldn't answer a single question as per usual and pushed back on Cairns on her ideas for solving the housing disaster. She quickly listed a number including the vacant housing tax (she had a minute of response time). Nobody said anything about full housing except you. Even if we solved 20% of the 160,000+ vacant properties it would be a result but the VHT was set up by FFG to fail. It was a meaningless gesture. All the opposition parties put in amendments at the time which were rejected. It provided zero incentive for landlords. It's far far far too low.

    FFG are totally to blame for the housing disaster. And they have never taken it seriously. The new "plan" again talks about sorting out vacant housing but as usual no details, no targets. Martin got angry yesterday when asked about housing targets.

    Leaders questions has become Leaders not answering questions.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 745 ✭✭✭Bitcoin


    Martin is a total spoofer who's been indulged for far too long. His lot have had their hands on the wheel for far too long and have utterly failed the people of this country. It's time for fresh thinking. Cairns and the Social Democrats are a breath of fresh air in this regard.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,024 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Quangos you say…

    2011 Fine Gael New Politics document

    We will cut the number of quangos by at least 150. Fine Gael will also establish strict criteria for the creation of any new quangos and ensure that all such agencies are subject to “sunset clauses”. A Fine Gael Government will substantially reduce the number of quangos (now circa 1,000). We will also require ministers to answer questions from TDs about the functioning of the key quangos in their area of responsibility.

    2011 Fine Gael to abolish up to 145 quangos – The Irish Times

    2018 Fine Gael ‘broke election pledge’ to axe 145 quangos

    2024 John Burns: Whatever happened to the bonfire of the quangos? | Irish Independent

    2025 ‘Quango Cull’: Almost as many State agencies now as in aftermath of financial crash – The Irish Times

    Most of these quangos are managed by FFG appointees. They wont be culled.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,088 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    And would the left behave any differently? Would they axe quangos and the workers in them? Would they axe the vat on new builds?

    Would Holly Cairns and the left prefer if the country was still on its knees and everyone emigrating like in 2009 - there was plenty of housing then?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,024 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Are you blaming the SDs for Fine Gael's failures? The SDs are 10 years old and have never been in power. They had only 6 seats last year.

    Any comment on FFG's proliferation of Quangos?

    Post edited by Cluedo Monopoly on

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,740 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Nobody said anything about full housing except you

    You literally said it in the post I was responding to.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,024 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    I said SDs had a full housing policy when the other lad said SDs wouldn't fix the housing disaster by just raising the VHT. I was only using VHT was just one example. They have lots of housing policy ideas but no it doesn't include a policy to have every single vacant house full. That's not workable. Look at the context. You are being pedantic. Full=Comprehensive. You replied on top of that conversation and missed the context. Now how about a reply to the rest of the post?

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,740 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I'm not being pedantic, I misinterpreted. But when you talk about vacant property tax and follow it up with claiming they have a "full housing policy" it is a rather easy misunderstanding to make.

    I commented on some of the rest. There is not a high level of vacant property and while I have no issue with raising the tax it will accomplish very little. It is a bit of a silly thing to highlight.

    All opposition plans (and generally govt plans) fail to highlight this is a global (seemingly anglophone) problem. The problems thus aren't rooted in some specific thing FF/FG are doing. We dont build enough and its too expensive and time consuming to build. I haven't seen a single opposition plan that addresses that and every time the govt tinker around the edges of the problem (eg planning reform) the opposition attempts to block them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,757 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Looking at it critically (and I'd be in favour of reducing the number of quangos and this is an FG failure, they should have made it part of the program for government when going into coalition):

    a) FG have never been in power alone, Labour in the first few years, would have blocked a lot of the abolishment as it would reduce the size of the public sector

    b) Left leaning parties tend towards a larger public sector, are SD, Lab, SF also promising to reduce quango sizes and make public sector workers redundant? (or the dreaded redeploy, so we end up with 10 admins in the remaining quango).

    i.e. are you attacking FG because they didn't achieve a policy you didn't want them to achieve or do you also want these to be abolished, and then, which party is making this promise for you to support?

    A lot of the issues when staying in the centre-right tend to get softened in coalition and the left leaning parties are not going to get that support either because they'll favour larger government.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,024 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    That's just apologist nonsense. I did vote for FG in 2011. They had 76 seats. They had no credible opposition. They had an electorate that wanted reform and a reduction in waste. Don't be blaming Labour now when Fine Gael set up the Irish Water superquango.

    Fine Gael will never have an overall majority. No party will.

    QUANGO1.jpg

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,757 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Irish water has been a success compared to the council led system that came before and not a good example to use.

    It also fails to address any of the other issues raised (such as Labours influence, which is absolutely bizarre, that was a straight 1/3 impact to all budgetary measures proposed).

    I don't get how the same people consistently misunderstand how a coalition and programme for government is worked out vs. a manifesto.

    Back on topic, what policies of SF will be dropped to coalesce with Labour and SD?



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