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Navan Rail Line

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 57 ✭✭thosewhoknow


    In a perfect world that route would probably work best, but new alignments are an easy way to make costs spiral and delay the project further. Considering it already isn't due to open for another 11 years, I think the simplest option would be best.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,423 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    That looks like the ideal alignment tbh, maybe a bit of flex around where the stations are but that could be sorted out with an actual feasibility study. A route like this needs to be considered in the studies for the line, if the future sustainable development of the area is a factor in CBA this should come out ahead by a country mile, an events station for fairyhouse is potential icing on the cake.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    I think Ashbourne and Ratoath need a different, more direct alignment. Bringing the Navan line from where it is now back east to serve Ashbourne just makes the whole route stupidly long, and the average line speed is already not great on this corridor (I hope that the DART+ works will do something to improve this).

    My preferred option would have been something like @OisinCooke's, but I do think that this ship has sailed: too much has been put in place for the western path. Also, any stop at Dunshaughlin needs to be located close to the M3 in order to act as a P+R for traffic further up the M3, so running the line east of Dunshaughlin isn’t going to be good for meeting car traffic reduction goals - the current P+R is awfully positioned for M3 users, as it makes them pay a toll just to get to and from the railway station, and I think that’s a lot of the reason for its poor ridership.

    In a purely speculative vein, the proposed alignment might also allow for a future spur to Trim (population 9,500) if enough of this 8km branch alignment is still owned by CIÉ:

    image.png

    Looking at the aerial maps, though, I think most of that alignment is now long gone (a part of it just east of the Boyne is now an access road for a group of houses), but Trim is still a good candidate for rail-led development in future, as it has a good core, with scope to grow, but it is currently unattractive for car commuting as it’s not near a motorway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52 ✭✭eoin91


    In comparison to roads, why is a new alignment seen as so difficult with rail ? Some posts have mentioned the additional land work required, the splitting of farms in half and new bridges/viaducts required. But these are things we have done across the country continuously for the past 30 years for motorways and bypass's.

    Is it that rail alignments are much more expensive due to the stricter slope requirements or something else ? Would this not be offset by the significantly reduced width required by a dual track alignment compared to a 4-6 lane road ?



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,728 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    One interesting option for Ashbourne would be a spur off Metrolink north of Swords. It would allow the area between Ashbourne and Swords to be developed and would connect Ashbourne to Swords, the Airprot and onto the city center.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,089 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,482 ✭✭✭MayoSalmon


    We went nuts because we had a 3rd world road network...I remember the days of it taking 6 hours to get from Dublin to Galway. It was shocking.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,414 ✭✭✭orangerhyme


    I know.

    Most were absolutely necessary but maybe we went too far.

    Does Ashbourne really need its own motorway?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,482 ✭✭✭MayoSalmon


    We do future proofing extremely poorly in this country so I would say yes...all the main national roads leading into Dublin should be motorway standard...but I accept that it is under capacity and probably will be for some time.

    I always thought Kilbride as a location was ripe for serious development....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,414 ✭✭✭orangerhyme


    I guess it's no harm and they're fairly short anyway but there must be huge differences in traffic on M1 v M2 or M3.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,541 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I don't see why Trim would be a better candidate for rail services than Dunshaughlin. Dunshaughlin would be much easier served and Ratoath could be served at the same time (see route from @OisinCooke). I also don't believe reinstating the old alignment as far as Kilmessan or beyond will be easy as some think. That you need to look at spurs due to >20km of serving nothing shows the fallacy of the old alignment.

    Regarding a Dunshaughlin station, P&R shouldn't be a consideration. Dunshaughlin is big enough to warrant a station and a station there should be accessed by public/active transport to the greatest extent possible. If the rail line serves Dunshaughlin, it likely has to run along the M3 which allows scope for a proper P&R. A P&R at Gallows Cross (J7) would be better for serving the wider rural area between Dunshaughlin and Navan. So a new alignment not only serves existing towns, it has the potential for further P&R.

    If a new alignment via Dunshaughlin was selected, crossing of the M3 could happen at the existing south toll plaza. There are already plans to move to completely barrier-free tolling so much of the space for the existing toll plaza would be available. Build a rail bridge over the M3 there and then follow the suggested route (which I've been saying for years). The old alignment requires crossing the link road into Navan from J8, that would be a major job so the idea that some (not you) promote about the ease of reinstating the old alignment is wishful thinking. Even the M3 underpass approach on both sides is lined by houses so the benefits of it are overstated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 57 ✭✭thosewhoknow


    Skimming over a potential Ratoath alignment reveals its own challenges. Before it can start heading towards Ratoath it will need to cross the parallel M3/R147, both of which are on the same level, meaning the railway will need to make a steep climb to have the clearance for a bridge across them.

    The line will have to cut through the Fairyhouse stables before it reaches Ratoath, where it can then curve to Dunshaughlin, giving it a station about a kilometre closer to Dunshaughlin town centre than if it was on the other side of the M3.

    From here it can either cross the M3 again to follow the original alignment into Navan or to hug the M3 until it can join the Navan-Drogheda line. Assuming it goes with the latter option, there are relatively few obstacles before it reaches Navan.

    The main detractor from this route (apart from the M3/R147 bridge) would be the high number of level crossings. I counted at least 11 instances where the only way to cross the road without extensive land works were via a level crossing, as opposed to the original alignment's 4.

    While the route certainly has its benefits, it sounds quite costly. I'd imagine it'd be hard to convince the public (apart from those in Ratoath maybe) that this alignment would better suit them, and it'd certainly have a hard time passing a CBA.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,423 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    I'd Hope whatever alignment was gone for that we are long past the day of happily building a new railway with level crossings on it.

    A railway should in all things be treated with the same build standards as a motorway, you wouldn't have a level junction on one of those.

    Smaller Roads can be lowered with relative ease to allow an overbridge, the penny pinching because this is a railway not a road seems wild to me, you'll have hundreds of overbridges, underpasses, junctions etc along a motorway stretch and nobody bats an eye.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Dunshaughlin is arguably already served by the proposed route. On this routing, a station can be placed about 2km from the centre of the town (straight line; by road it’s 2.7 km because of the ringroad):

    image.png

    Re-routing the railway into the town would provide a marginal increase in usage, but at the very high cost of crossing M3. Ratoath is actually the larger population centre here (9,000), but serving that means making a diversion further east that would prevent the provision of an easy toll-free M3 Park and Ride: I believe that the Dunshaughlin P+R is a major factor in the positive benefit-to-cost ratio.

    In an ideal world I would have preferred something that went closer into the town, east of the M3, but the M3 is where it is, no crossing was built into the motorway at construction time, and crossing it now would be stupidly expensive. It’s very hard to capture Dunshaughlin and Ratoath, and provide a convenient P+R from M3 without making the line excessively long. Take too much of a meander, and driving becomes more attractive again.

    I mentioned Trim only as a future extension that becomes possible once the Navan line is opened, not as something that’s necessary to make the line viable: Navan is large enough alone to make the line work. I still think that to serve Ratoath, a more direct line into Dublin via Ashbourne is better - perhaps as a branch from the proposed Clongriffin-Airport-Swords-Drogheda corridor.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,110 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    Obvious solution, serve all the towns!

    image.png

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,482 ✭✭✭MayoSalmon




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,423 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    If/when they move to digital tolling on the M3, the whole toll plaza space will be removed, tie that into the railway works and bam you have your M3 crossing. Navan is on the 'wrong' side of the M3 so you have to cross it eventually, do it where it gets you the most utility.

    There is nothing provided at the point where the old line crosses the M3, so 'crossing the M3' isn't a good argument, a better one might be 'but the Boyne viaduct' but that's going to need remediation to support modern tram and shake off 50+ years of neglect anyway, so cost difference with a modern engineering bridge alongside the M3 is likely not an order of magnitude different.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 57 ✭✭thosewhoknow


    If you go back a few posts you'll see that there was in fact infrastructure provided for crossing the M3 at the point the original line does. Even if the old Boyne viaduct hasn't been used in 60 years it will still be significantly cheaper than building a new bridge, but the east of M3 alignment won't need to cross the Boyne anyway if it uses the Drogheda line.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,522 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    Screenshot 2025-11-12 at 11.36.38.png

    Here is the hidden Boyne Viaduct. Can't see any reason why there would be significant risk in using it, the Victorian engineers built to last, even built for 2 tracks. Plenty of other bridges still in place. Greatly speeds construction, reduces cost and risk and reduces risk of environmental impact.

    Fantasy routings with crayons are all great, but you need to consider the geography as well. There will be minor deviations but wild routings across the M3 have been ruled out.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,099 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    I don't think that they've been ruled out, per se, but I think it's incredibly unlikely that any other route that the existing route is chosen. The benefits of choosing a different route across the M3 won't be able to match up with the costs of doing, and that's before you get into the political costs, i.e. farmers complaining about their land being divided, despite the previous route being relatively available.

    There's a huge difference between IR taking back land that already had a rail line on it, and taking land that never had a rail line. I know that this shouldn't be the way it is, but it is.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭KrisW1001




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,435 ✭✭✭✭L1011




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