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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,087 ✭✭✭almostover


    I agree with you on all of this. I'm just trying to rationalise why Farrell chose Aki in the 23 shirt.

    Aki can really only play 12 now, his loss of pace would make him a target in the 13 channel. But I can't see Stu moving to 13 so that will be a straight swap if it happens.

    And yes, moving our 10 around in thte vent of injury to accommodate this selection is a balls.

    My only other thought is that there isn't really any Irish outside back in great form currently bar Tom Farrell. Who is uncapped and plays 1 position just like Aki. So not the solution either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 495 ✭✭HanShotFirst


    Lowe is significantly better. Do you not think so?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,356 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    No, I think he’s living off past glories at the moment. Current form I’d say you could put Tom Ahern on the wing and he’d do a better job at the moment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,239 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I don't understand why JOB has suddenly fallen out of favor. He has been quite good in a **** Leinster team this year, and has always performed well in green. Lowry would also be a great option, who should've made the squad



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 495 ✭✭HanShotFirst


    He always delivers for Ireland. Very important part of the team.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,087 ✭✭✭almostover


    I'm only going on what I saw in the Leinster v Munster game a few weeks back and JOB looked very ordinary that night. Worse still, James Lowe was worse than ordinary.

    Haven't seen Ulster play yet this season so can't comment on Lowry. But he does fit the bill for the 23 shirt through versatility alone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 26,592 ✭✭✭✭phog


    I hope I'm wrong but I won't be shocked if he doesn't have a great game for us on Saturday



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 495 ✭✭HanShotFirst


    JOB is the best 15 option left available

    Osborne is the best 12 option available

    Leinsters more than questionable selection choices have ruined those options.

    Brilliant as Lowry is he’s not left footed and a bit taller….if you know what I mean?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 495 ✭✭HanShotFirst


    He doesn’t always have to be great. He’s a playmaker and vital because Hansen isn’t playing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,297 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    JOB is a decent player but versatility aside, he’s not a fraction of the player that Aki is, even at his advanced age. A reshuffled backline featuring Aki is better than an unreshuffled one with JOB in it.

    If the guy in the 23 jersey is the biggest complaint people have, then I’ll call that a win.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,239 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Don't agree with that at all, especially as it pertains to a 23 bench



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,048 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Not denying that Lowe was terrible on the Lions tour and has been poor so far this season. But saying he's living off past glories, while making a case for Jacob Stockdale of all people, who has been living off past glories for the past 7 years is quite funny.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,356 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    It’s not funny, Stockdale has shown some spark lately, Lowe hasn’t, it’s a simple observation.



  • Administrators Posts: 55,813 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Stockdale hasn't been living off past glories at all, quite the opposite in fact. He was dropped like a stone by Ireland for being poor despite his past glories.

    He is one of the very few players who has actually been moved off a central contract back to a provincial one, the majority of centrally contracted guys seem immune to this sort of treatment.

    He is only now beginning to find his previous form again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,048 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Said spark being 0 tries this season and a grand total of 5 last season



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,356 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    Have you seen him play lately? If not then what point are you even making?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,048 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Stockdale hasn't been living off past glories at all

    He quite literally is. If it weren't for the incredible heights he hit in his early career, there would be zero calls for him to be starting for Ireland today.

    He is one of the very few players who has actually been moved off a central contract

    Because he rightly lost his place as a starter. I fail to see the injustice here.

    He is only now beginning to find his previous form again.

    With respect, I've heard this line so many times over the last 6/7 years about Stockdale. But he's never shown form on a consistent basis and the chances he's got with Ireland, he's failed to take.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,184 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    Stockdale (much like H Byrne) seems to have one massive brain fart in him per game. Fine at club level but not at international as that tends to be what loses you the game.

    Lowe was very good against Stormers and less impressive against Munster as was everyone in blue. He wasn’t at his best for the Lions in the summer but created a try for Beirne in the test series with a lovely bit of handling. A lot of the criticism of him came from the British media who wanted Kinghorn in. Put it another way, take Lowe out of that backline and where’s the game breaking spark coming from?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Literally the last three caps Stockdale has had for Ireland, he has left the field with an injury and been subsequently unavailable. Cool for you if you think that's him "not taking his chance", but a lot of people might disagree.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,564 ✭✭✭JanuarySnowstor


    Decent team but the leader in this pack is Beirne who should be the captain! Anyway that's not for now, c'mon Ireland!!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 894 ✭✭✭bingobango12


    Stupid comment. Lowe is still hugely important to how Ireland play. Saying sticking a pretty average lock/6 instead of Lowe on the wing is just nonsensical.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,245 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    That sounds like more of this Pollocking Borthball talk in the news across the way. I’ve often wondered how rugby might be radically changed but didn’t imagine it would come for us wings.

    Always watch the quids, Lilly. I don’t say they mean everything, but watch them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,245 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    I won’t be blaming management here. Our options are limited enough.

    Always watch the quids, Lilly. I don’t say they mean everything, but watch them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70 ✭✭big-al


    he really, really isn’t.


    Lowe has major weaknesses in his game, particularly top end speed and defensively. He isn’t improving at 33 either.

    Stockdale has been consistently one of the top wingers in the URC and Europe when he has been fit in the past 24months and has already proven himself at international rugby, scoring iconic individual tries that Lowe could only dream of scoring.


    lowe was a bag of turnips on the Lions tour. Deservedly dropped.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70 ✭✭big-al


    hmm, if you think Lowe hasn’t errors in his game then you are deeply one eyed.


    take a look at the tackle stats for Hanson/Lowe whenever they have played in 10 internationals.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 44,287 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    In the last two seasons Stockdale has scored 12 tries (1 in Europe). Lowe has scored 25 (10 in Europe)

    If that puts Stockdale as one of Europe's top wingers and Lowe isn't, then I've no clue what the metrics say.

    I hate these "my player is better than your player" arguments because they are ALWAYS based on provincial bias.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,297 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    In fairness, Stockdale's iconic tries are going back 7-8 years, it's no basis for picking a team for tomorrow.

    His injury record has been very unfortunate but it's also a fact of life.

    He can't really complain about his status.

    Is Lowe past his best? It certainly looks like it. But that doesn't mean he isn't still the best option.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,342 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I've never liked head-to-head comparisons on things like try-scoring records for individual players when they play in diametrically opposite performing teams.

    Here's my take; imo, in the last 12-18 months, Stockdale when fit is probably in his best spell of form since 2018. Lowe, on the other hand had a really poor set of Autumn International's last year, for example (particularly defensively imo). And a poor Lions tour and start to this season.

    Lowe is getting on in age, but he still has that physicality that none of our other wingers have. His left boot too is a huge asset, particularly if we are continuing to transition to a kick-heavy gameplan. (You do want speed for the kick-chase tho, which Lowe has never had).

    Lowe is in the driving seat, but I don't think it'd be a complete shock if Stockdale leapfrogs him in the next 12 months, say. Imo, a lot of it will come down to what we want to do / the form of Hansen and TOB.

    Hansen, for me, is the first choice wing when everyone is fit. He also has the versatility to play either wing so it broadens the options behind him.

    I think come 6 Nations time or, say, next AI's, it could be Mack Hansen plus one of TOB or Stockdale tbh (if they maintain their current form). There'd definitely a discussion to be had there at least.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,470 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Yeah as a leinster fan I love Lowe's strengths but I have to acknowledge his weaknesses. There's always an argument for dropping a player with significant weaknesses in favour of some with different strengths.

    I'm not calling for Lowe to be dropped, but he's vulnerable to someone with high end pace and better defence. Lowe's big clearance kicks are a point of difference (but might be mitigated by Osborne having a similar ability). And his footballing (nebulous term which I understand to mean skill to do something like kick, pass or something really tricky in almost no space) is excellent.

    A player with significant weaknesses should be vulnerable to being replaced by a player with different strengths. His age brings that dropping closer. It's as much an opportunity as a cause for concern.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,532 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Every player has weaknesses in their game. Some players make 'errors' because of them.

    Lowe and Stockdale are an example. The margin for 'error' with Stockdale is unfortunately allot bigger.

    Stockdale has more pace than Lowe. Thats where the pros/cons comparison starts/ends in favour of Stockdale.

    I expect he will start v Japan and do very well in attack. (edit: I'd start JOB)



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